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View Full Version : TR2/3/3A Paint code / formula coming to a head



Got_All_4
10-01-2014, 07:03 PM
Started a tread in May asking for paint codes for Sebring White for my 1960 TR3A. Got a lot of replies but all were dead ends. So today on my rounds I stopped at 2 auto paint suppliers PPG and Matrix. Gave them all the code numbers I got off the first tread and from TRF and none of them were even white. Green, yellow and blue.

So I'm hoping someone out there has recently painted their TR3 Sebring White and can get me the formula from them. preferably from one of he top paint companies but not being choosy now.
If I can get any formula I can have it mixed and spray it on a test panel to have PPG scan it and get a profit formula in their DBC line. The only hope so far was the Matrix guy said he has a color called Sebring white but the person on the phone said it might be a little bluer then original. It is in their single stage urethane line and the minimum is a quart to buy and it's $100. A lot for a test panel. Also I wouldn't know what Sebring white would look like if it bit me you know where.

My hope was to get it sprayed this weekend but even if I get the paint mixed in time the high temperature is only going to be 58 degrees and the type of furnace I have would not be good for paint fumes floating around the garage. I might make the national news!!!

TR3driver
10-01-2014, 07:16 PM
Others have been down this same path (although not AFAIK for Sebring White). My opinion, you are overthinking it. No one knows exactly what it was, there is no Pantone reference, so whatever you wind up with will only be an approximation. It is also very possible that it is impossible to reproduce the exact original appearance using modern paint.

So, my solution would be to pick an off-white that is somewhat close to the preserved color chips, and let it go at that. (To my eye, it looks just a bit grayer than pure white, no tint.) You can even tell everyone it is "Sebring White". After all, since no one actually knows, they can't contradict you.

https://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh260/TR3driver/Paint/martin-senour-colors.jpg~original

Geo Hahn
10-01-2014, 07:32 PM
...Also I wouldn't know what Sebring white would look like if it bit me you know where.

Probably not much help but I did see a TR3A at a show on Sunday in Santa Fe that was billed as Sebring White:

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/TR3/SebringWhite_zpsdbbb6e31.jpg

Not original paint (and not a '59 for that matter) but it looked pretty much what I imagine Sebring White to be -- just a bit of grey and possibly a hint of ice blue. It is one of those colors that seem to vary quite a bit depending on what light you're viewing it in.

I could try to track down the owner but I doubt that would be helpful as I am pretty sure the car was already painted when he got it.

Geo Hahn
10-01-2014, 07:45 PM
Snooping around a bit -

I assume you have seen these codes from Joe's site? https://spitlist.info/Paint.html

I also came across this image from an Acme paint chip card (favored by Wile e Coyote) that may only add to your confusion:

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/TR3/acmepaint_zps2fa13f0a.jpg

Got_All_4
10-01-2014, 09:31 PM
I've seen a lot of on line paint chips including the 2 above. One other that I did see must have been a later one because it had Leyland white under the Sebring white. They were very close. I originally painted my 3 in 1980 Leyland white because it was the closest I could find then. However this time my goal is to get it as close to the correct color as possible. I'd love to get my hands on one of the original paint chips. Could do a lot with it. Geo that's your call if you want to contact the owner. That would be great and you never know. What I did for my TR250 paint color was to take a copy of the PPG tinting formula and taped it inside the trunk so I would always have the correct formula handy.

glemon
10-02-2014, 12:19 AM
Here is another page, if you really want it to look as original as possible I would paint it with an old fashioned lacquer or enamel, in my opinion that will make as much difference in making the car original as slight differences in tint. I don't recall if Triumphs of that era were painted in enamel or lacquer, but that is what you need, and it will look different than a single stage modern urethane enamel, and will look a lot different that a basecoat/clearcoat system.

I bought my paint from these guys and was pleased, they also offer enamel and lacquer or did last I checked: https://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1964-Triumph-pg02.jpg Autocolor library TCP Global.

TexasKnucklehead
10-02-2014, 01:49 PM
I painted mine with Primrose Yellow -base coat/clear and everyone seems to like the way it turned out. It matches one of the paint chips well. I too had trouble getting the correct ppg paint codes. One day I happened to be at the paint shop when the salesman was there. He called someone who had to look up the crossreference -on paper files and mixed it up for me. I probably had 5 outdated codes so he knew I serious. The codes are out there, someone knows how to crossreference it to todays paints.

Got_All_4
10-02-2014, 09:55 PM
Because I seem to have nothing but bad luck I've gotten pretty good at doing paint repairs. The best for that is base clear. I've talked to many many body shop painters for 6 months now trying to decide what I was going to do because I too was struggling with single stage or base clear dilemma. all I need is a formula for any paint and then easy to can come up with the base color I need. I was planning to stop at the Sherwin Williams store Friday so I printed the chip card. I also have a couple of paint stores that have been around here as long as I can remember. Hopefully they have kept their old chips.

sqbsprite
10-02-2014, 10:31 PM
Here is a source that you may already know about. I bought a quart of Jasmine Yellow for my TR6 and it was very a close match to the original. The first link is for generic whites. The second link is for more specific colors.

https://www.tcpglobal.com/Automotive-Paint/Restoration-Shop/

https://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1964-Triumph-pg02.jpg

It's listed under 1964. Their database did not go below 1963.
34736

Got_All_4
10-03-2014, 06:50 PM
I was at 7 automotive paint companies today and no help. Complete dead ends. WOW!

sqbsprite
10-03-2014, 08:08 PM
I've used PPG in the past and the paint I bought from TCP smelled and was packaged very similarly. You might want to order a quart and try it. It comes pre-mixed and all you do is add the hardner. I sprayed a fender on my TR6 and color sanded and buffed it. Seems to be good paint. At least they can mix the color you want. My only complaint was that it was a little slower drying than I prefer. You can't choose the reducer temp that they pre-mix it with.

CJD
10-03-2014, 08:48 PM
One of my other hobbies is building wood ship models. Ships live long lives and are updated almost every time they return to port. The USS Constitution has been in service over 200 years. So, before you start a ship project you pick a date and build the model to match what the ship looked like at that date.

What's this story got to do with antique car painting? A lot more than you would think.

The minute a TR drove off the assembly line the paint started to age. Whites turn yellow. Reds and blacks fade. The paint chips are more stable in a book...but after 50+ years even they change. The chips converted to jpg or pdf's above change based on the white balance on the camara or scanner, and also the monitor on which you are viewing them. Pigments from the day were lead based, whereas now they are titanium based. So, even with the exact color mix code, there will be a difference from then to now. There were even differences ibetween the batches of paints when these cars were brand new.

Your quest for the absolute perfect paint match is along the lines of searching for the holy grail.

I have a friend who took delivery of a 1976 vet, for the sole purpose of showing it. He parked it for 10 years and then started entering it in the survivor class, with only 7.5 actual miles. In more than one show the car was docked for having a poor "repainted" job! If you find your grail, chances are you will be the only one who recognizes that you found it.

Just me rambling...

Got_All_4
10-03-2014, 09:48 PM
I was talking to a local LBC restorer today about the fading paints. He told me that he has even had to rub and polish the chips in books to get their true colors to come out. I realize I'm not going to get that perfict match and just frustrated that I can't get any paint mixed. I've seen a lot of white TRs over the years and was not able to pinpoint in my mind what Sebring white was. So the pics and chips have been helpful. Just now need a starting point to select a chip from a paint chip book. I've got a pile of chip books to go through and get a starting point. Might be able to change the tinting to what pics I see and what I remember the color to be.

martx-5
10-04-2014, 07:22 AM
...

Just me rambling...

...makes perfect sense to me.

Got_All_4
10-04-2014, 10:18 AM
We may have a winner here. Ford Glacier white. Check out the link and see what you think?

https://www.google.com/search?q=ford+2010+glacier+white+paint&biw=1600&bih=789&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=bf4vVLfzIIKKyATrz4LIBA&ved=0CCsQsAQ#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=ntvJi2lIu86E1M%253A%3BFHZ2VIEztIpWmM%3Bhttp% 253A%252F%252Fi113.photobucket.com%252Falbums%252F n240%252Fchrger528%252FDSC_05592-1.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sn95forums.com%252F showthread.php%253F46885-My-sn95-project-so-far%3B640%3B428

sqbsprite
10-04-2014, 10:22 PM
I had to cut some of this, but you can go to the site.





https://www.tcpglobal.com/site/images/globalhomehead.png (https://www.tcpglobal.com/)

Register | (https://checkout.na1.netsuite.com/s.nl?c=3732272&sc=1&n=1&reset=T&login=T&newcust=T&ext=F&reset=T&login=T&newcust=T&ext=F&redirect_count=1&did_javascript_redirect=T) Login (https://checkout.na1.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.3732272/n.1/sc.1/.f?login=T&reset=T)
My Cart (https://www.tcpglobal.com/s.nl/sc.3/.f?ext=F)


(https://www.tcpglobal.com/s.nl/sc.144/.f)





TRIUMPH 1964





Select Paint Type
Paint Information




Acrylic Enamel (Tech Sheet) (https://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/docs/techsheet_ae.pdf)


Acrylic Urethane (Tech Sheet) (https://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/docs/techsheet_au.pdf)


Acrylic Lacquer (Tech Sheet) (https://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/docs/techsheet_al.pdf)


Urethane Basecoat (Tech Sheet) (https://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/docs/techsheet_ub.pdf)


Low VOC UBLV Urethane Basecoat (Tech Sheet) (https://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/docs/RSUBLV_techsheet.pdf)





Exact Color Name: (Required)
ie: Red Poly

Chip Formula Number:
ie: 5407

Manufacturer Paint Code:
ie: 391E/14
















SELECTION SUMMARY


TRIUMPH - 1964
Exact Color: sebring white
Chip Formula Number: 5961
Manufacturer Paint Code: t20




Item No
Description

Your Price
Quantity


RSP AE-A-GL
AE-ACRYLIC ENAMEL "A" COLOR
RESTORATION SHOP PAINT
$89.95



RSP AE-A-QT
AE-ACRYLIC ENAMEL "A" COLOR
RESTORATION SHOP PAINT
$29.95































Suggested Hardeners




Item Number
Description

Your Price
Quantity


RSP AU4001-HP
ACRYLIC URETHANE HARDENER
HALF PINT CAN
$19.95



RSP AU4001-PT
URETHANE HARDENER PINT
URETHANE CATALYST - PINT CAN
$27.95






Tech Sheets




Description


RSP AE Tech Sheet (https://www.tcpglobal.com/Customshop/psheets/techsheet_ae.pdf)















Item Number
Description

Your Price
Quantity


PPG DAR-A-GL
DELSTAR REG COLOR
ACRYLIC ENAMEL
$361.50



PPG DAR-A-QT
DELSTAR REG COLOR
ACRYLIC ENAMEL
$102.65








PPG Suggested Thinners/Reducers




Item Number
Description

Your Price
Quantity


PPG DTR600-QT
FAST ACRYLIC ENAMEL REDUCER
50 TO 75 DEG. TEMP RANGE
$20.50



PPG DTR600-GL
FAST ACRYLIC ENAMEL REDUCER
50 TO 75 DEG. TEMP RANGE
$50.95



PPG DTR602-QT
MEDIUM ACRYLIC ENAMEL REDUCER
70 TO 95 DEG. TEMP RANGE
$20.50



PPG DTR602-GL
MEDIUM ACRYLIC ENAMEL REDUCER
70 TO 95 DEG. TEMP RANGE
$50.95



PPG DTR604-GL
SLOW ACRYLIC ENAMEL REDUCER
85 TO 100 DEG. TEMP RANGE
$60.00












PPG Suggested Hardeners




Item Number
Description

Your Price
Quantity


PPG DXR80-PT
DELTHANE ULTRA HARDNR

$102.00











PPG Tech Sheets


PPG DAR Tech Sheet (https://www.tcpglobal.com/Customshop/psheets/delstar.pdf)

tinman58
10-04-2014, 11:21 PM
3474934748
Marv
I hope this works for you on the code. The other 250 in the photo is the owner that we bought our 250 from. (who need's two Triumph's)

Got_All_4
10-05-2014, 07:24 PM
Is that the formula for the Sebring white 3 in the pic on the first page? My wife Keeps asking me how many Triumphs do you want? My reply is always, just one more! I'm at 4.

Got_All_4
10-05-2014, 07:39 PM
Sqbsprite

What are all those item numbers? Are they the correct color or how do I get the Sebring white formula to order?

glemon
10-05-2014, 07:58 PM
Go here: https://www.autocolorlibrary.com/ find the paint chip sheet for your color, enter the name and code for the color and it will give you pricing, many times you will have to look at a different year (usually later) to find the right paint chip, in this case I think you need to got to 63 or 64 Triumph chips.

Once there you will see the pricing for the various paint options, I was happy with my Triumph Signal Red, and I saved a lot of money.

Got_All_4
10-05-2014, 08:02 PM
1

Got_All_4
10-05-2014, 08:03 PM
In all my haste to get to paint I forgot to do the spare tire cover and the air intake lid. Last night after striping the air lid I noticed a bit of a different color showing through. I carefully scraped it back after applying a small amount of paint striper to soften the top layer I was able to revel two 3rds of the color under the lid. It is defiantly a very light color and more of a very pale blue or green. Can't say that it is the original color of my car because when it was being stored in 1976 a storm blow the barn down and crushed the cowl. I got a different front clip from start Your Engines and can't say that the new clip was missing the air intake lid and I made a switch. But the color looks almost perfect to some of the chips I see on line and what you guys sent. however nothing like the 3 in the pic that GEO sent. I realize that there are many variables that affect the colors we see on the net so I'm not convinced yet that it is Sebring white. I've been trying to get a good digital pic to list but they haven't been coming out correctly. I'll keep trying.

sqbsprite
10-05-2014, 10:30 PM
Sqbsprite

What are all those item numbers? Are they the correct color or how do I get the Sebring white formula to order?

Go to the page https://www.autocolorlibrary.com/ Enter the following info:

TRIUMPH - 1964
Exact Color: sebring white
Chip Formula Number: 5961
Manufacturer Paint Code: t20





the following info:

Got_All_4
10-06-2014, 07:48 AM
thanks! I'll call today.

Got_All_4
10-06-2014, 06:27 PM
Well took the formula today to Dupont and had them mix it. You can see the results on top of the can. Not even close and a waste of $25. Also called TC Global today and they gave me 2 different codes. The one listed on the site isn't even for Sebring white according to them. He gave me a different number which is the same number that keeps showing up in all the other paint companies who say it's not white.

sqbsprite
10-06-2014, 08:16 PM
Sorry. After looking closer, I see that T20 is not the Triumph factory code it was the Sherwin Williams chip number. I don't think SW makes automotive paint any longer. The code for Sebring White on later cars was T29. Here is a link that shows some formula codes for PPG and others. MaybeTCP can tell you if PPG 8247 is white. At least there are more numbers to check.

https://spitlist.info/Paint.html

HealeyRick
10-06-2014, 09:13 PM
PPG says they have 1 million colors in their color library, maybe Sebring White is one of them. Your PPG jobber can probably set up an account online here to access the site: https://www.ppg.com/coatings/commercialcoatings/en/color/retrieval/Pages/030_onlineColor.aspx or you might call PPG directly at 440-572-2800and see if someone will help you out.

Got_All_4
10-06-2014, 10:28 PM
SW does still do automotive paints.. I have a few customers that use it. Not what I'd use on my car now a days. I've been to PPG jobbers one even called the factory with no luck. Can't believe this is this hard to get the correct formula. I had it explained to me about the old paint codes that the numbers are only good for the paints in those days. If the paint manufacture did not update or convert the numbers as paints advanced from enamels to lacquer to urethanes and now base clears the info is probably lost for ever.
I took a print out of all those numbers on the spit list and that's when I was told about the numbers.

Got_All_4
10-07-2014, 10:08 PM
The attachment is a copy of a email I found on the net from another forum. There is also a pic of the intake lid I spoke of earlier. As you can see there is a color difference between the off white edges and the light blue/white center. Also at the arrow that color is the Nissan color listed in the email. #15610. It's a closer match in person but very curious to see the other Swan White. Half tempted to get both colors and mix them together and see what I get. Also at a Ford dealer looking at the truck colors the 2014 truck/suv flyer the frozen white is a dead ringer to the color on my car's intake lid.