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af3683
07-07-2014, 10:39 PM
I recently became aware that I'm supposed to have a fiberboard radiator air deflector / shroud on my TR3B. I've read some of the prior posts from folks who have recently installed them and have a few additional questions. I assume these air deflectors are supposed to direct all of the air entering through the grill directly to the radiator, and not around it, in order to assist in the cooling process. I would appreciate knowing
if folks that have installed these air deflectors have noticed a big difference in cooling? Do you have a preference between the TRF 3-piece version, and the Moss version which appears to be one piece. Finally, have you primed and painted the air deflectors? Thank you.

Art

mrv8q
07-07-2014, 11:56 PM
Hey, Art, I bought the TRF shroud 8 years ago, to replace the tired original shroud. Don't know about any difference in temp, but the TRF shroud has held up very well; though it's never seen rain. I didn't take Geo's advice to prime/paint my shroud.

HTH!

Geo Hahn
07-07-2014, 11:57 PM
I find it is hard to tell 'seat of the pants' which things I have done really help with cooling -- I just do lots of stuff and the net result is good.

I have always used the assembled version of the shroud (apparently the Moss version) which is 3 pieces but comes already riveted together. The fit was fine.

I painted the front body color (that is what was original I believe). I did something to the back side -- black paint? Thompson's Waterseal? What ever you do I would not leave it unfinished as water will not be kind to bare fibreboard.

af3683
07-10-2014, 09:13 PM
I received my radiator air deflector / shroud and was examining how to approached putting it on the car. It looks like the only way to possibly remove the grill (without the added work of removing the bumper) might be to remove the carriage bolts that hold the overrider support tubes to the end of the overriders, then remove the washers and nuts holding the overrider support tubes to the wheel wells, and then remove the support tubes with the carriage bolts in them through the grill. Can anyone tell me if I'm correct or am I missing something. Thank you.

Art

Got_All_4
07-10-2014, 10:48 PM
They are supposed to be painted the body color. I just took mine out a couple of months ago after it has been in the car for 30 years and it has held up well for being paper. However I am going to replace it and some how seal the edges because the old one the layers on the edges are separating.

TR4nut
07-11-2014, 12:37 AM
I received my radiator air deflector / shroud and was examining how to approached putting it on the car. It looks like the only way to possibly remove the grill (without the added work of removing the bumper) might be to remove the carriage bolts that hold the overrider support tubes to the end of the overriders, then remove the washers and nuts holding the overrider support tubes to the wheel wells, and then remove the support tubes with the carriage bolts in them through the grill. Can anyone tell me if I'm correct or am I missing something. Thank you.

Art


Art-

That works fine - I did exactly that when I installed a pusher fan. Support tubes removed first, then grill, no problems at all.

Randy

toysrrus
07-11-2014, 03:19 AM
Art-

That works fine - I did exactly that when I installed a pusher fan. Support tubes removed first, then grill, no problems at all.

Randy

Randy, Did you install a "Pusher Fan" on a TR3 or 4? If it was a TR3; I`m guessing you somehow got it thru the grille opening etc etc without removing / moving the front apron? How did you do that & what size was the fan?

Thanx, Russ

TR4nut
07-11-2014, 10:59 AM
Russ-

Yes I did on my 3A - sorry, I bought the fan so long ago I'm not sure of the size at the moment but with a little detective work I can let you know. I used a trick Geo showed a long time ago in terms of mounting it - I made up some angled rod to use as clamps and ranthe rod along the side of the radiator to secure the fan - fan was big enough that I could do that. And yes, if you pull the grill you can install the fan. I was also able to keep the deflector although I removed it during the fan installation.

Randy

Geo Hahn
07-11-2014, 03:45 PM
...I used a trick Geo showed a long time ago in terms of mounting...

Redux. I used a 12" fan, the pics are of the TR4 but sis the same thing on my TR3A:

Decapitated and bent some bolts:

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/TR4/fan1_zpsca3977a6.jpg

Used short lengths of fuel ine for cushioning:

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/TR4/fan2_zps61b464dd.jpg

Had to oval out the holes in the mounting tabs to allow the bolts to clear the side of the radiator:

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/TR4/fan3_zps93618f97.jpg

Tabs snapped into place on the 12" fan:

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/TR4/fan7_zpsdd60df96.jpg

Fan mounted to radiator:

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/TR4/fan8_zpsd3fefc22.jpg

You will be working in tighter quarters inside the TR3A bonnet, but the fitment is the same. I think you will want to mount the fan before you mount the shroud.

The fan you use may differ and you may find a better variation of mounting -- what I have shown is just one way to mount one particular fan.

toysrrus
07-12-2014, 03:14 AM
Hey Geo;

Thats some great info & pics!!!!

Thanx, Russ

toysrrus
07-18-2014, 03:37 AM
Geo,

It appears that your "Elec. Fan" is a "Universal Fit" with several mounting areas for the brackets; Correct?

I`m looking at a bunch of "Universal Fit"; Push/Pull, 12Volt, 12" Dia fans on ebay for about $26.00 shipped (Cheap)!!

Some show "Flat" blades & some show "Curved" blades. I would think the "Curved" blades would be a better but I`m looking for suggestions.

Also; They show CFM ranging from 1100 upwards of 1750. What are some suggestions relative to the CFM?

I`ll get this darn thing "Dialed-In" sooner or later. I`m simply looking for the "Easiest" way to make it happen!!!!

Thanx Again,

Russ

Geo Hahn
07-18-2014, 08:31 AM
It appears that your "Elec. Fan" is a "Universal Fit" with several mounting areas for the brackets; Correct?...

Yes, just a cheap one from a FLAPS:

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/TR3/fan_zps7ff00515.jpg

I do not know the CFM.

Mine had curved blades but I don't think that is a big deal either way -- if fact you may be better off with flat blades as you will be reversing the rotation to use the fan as a 'pusher'.

6TTR3A
07-18-2014, 05:04 PM
Usually, with a "Universal" unit, you reverse the fan blades along with the rotation.

Got_All_4
07-18-2014, 09:41 PM
If the blades are straight and being DC current I think you can reverse the polarity to reverse the air flow without any problems.

toysrrus
07-19-2014, 12:47 AM
My TR is "Positive Ground".

What does that mean relative to wiring a "Flat" bladed Elec Fan? Pos. to Pos?? Pos. to Neg??

Thanx, Russ

PS: It will be used in the "Pusher" function mounted on the front of the Rad.

Geo Hahn
07-19-2014, 08:38 AM
I think you will want to wire positive to negative as you are reversing the rotation (for a pusher) compared to the usual set-up.

The unit is usually all plastic so not grounded as such -- you can easily connect it temporarily to confirm which way it is blowing.

When I had one I powered the hot (negative, fused) side and ran the ground side to a switch under the dash. Just one wire that way.

martx-5
07-19-2014, 10:15 AM
If the blades are straight and being DC current I think you can reverse the polarity to reverse the air flow without any problems.

Be careful, some fans, such as my Spal, have permanent magnets and can run in only one direction.

TR3TR6
07-19-2014, 10:52 AM
Art, I still have the positive ground on my car and all I did when installing my fan was connect the wires, check the direction of air flow and reversed the wires if it wasn't correct. Getting back to the shroud, one of the guys here made a shroud out of sheet metal using the cardboard one as a pattern and painted it the same color as his car. It really looked good and will probably last as long as the car.

Geo Hahn
07-19-2014, 01:32 PM
I just came a across a photo I have of mine (apron off) when I still used the electric fan:

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/TR3/ElectricFan_zps0e1bae7f.jpg

Might give some idea of how I mounted it -- I did the mounting with the apron still in place. I also knocked out the grid work at the bottom of the fan so I could still use the hand crank. Just had to insert the crank slowly (good idea anyway) so it would push the blade out of the way if it happened to be covering the hole.

TR3driver
07-19-2014, 04:37 PM
Be careful, some fans, such as my Spal, have permanent magnets and can run in only one direction.
They are pretty much all permanent magnet motors; which means they will turn the other direction if you switch the leads. It's motors with wound fields that turn the same direction regardless of polarity (like the original heater and wiper motors on a TR3).

Check the instructions with the fan; some do say to reverse the blades for more efficient air flow, others do not.

CFM is a lot like horsepower; more is better so manufacturers find ways to give higher ratings that may bear little resemblance to reality. My 12" Hayden is only rated for 675 cfm through a "typical" radiator, but that seems to be enough for me. With my homebrew controller that measures the radiator outlet temp, the fan never runs for as much as a minute before shutting off again.

Eventually, I want to try building a variable speed controller, but haven't gotten there yet. I intend to also allow it to run for a few minutes after shutdown, to see if that helps reduce hard starting when hot.

luke44
07-19-2014, 05:58 PM
Here you go: This was the "3 piece from TRF" but mine came as 1 piece, note the bend in the top corners, sure sucks up the paint, about 6 coats....:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5586/14536760455_f7817099b9_c.jpg

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3912/14536760035_0ed884b76f_c.jpg

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5565/14535281204_d32e1b09c7_c.jpg

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5584/14533381971_1610b78476_c.jpg

Geo Hahn
07-19-2014, 08:20 PM
The one I got from Moss had creases stamped in along the edges that meet the radiator. These I folded back and along the edge of the radiator body. Going to be hard to see because of the grille but this is it:

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/TR3/Shroud1_zps80c4c279.jpg

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/TR3/Shroud2_zps930629c0.jpg

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/TR3/Shroud3_zps6811ac0a.jpg

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/TR3/Shroud4_zps3880257e.jpg

Whichever style you have, you may find you need to modify the vertical edges of the shroud to accommodate the bulge of the electric fan.

TR3driver
07-19-2014, 09:08 PM
The one I got from TRF in 2008 was the same way. Obviously made from 3 pieces, but the pieces were already joined; and creases where it is supposed to bend. Didn't fit all that well inside the apron, I wound up making some extensions to be able to bolt it to the 'floor'. But that may have been due to having a 3A apron on a TR3 (came that way to me, since been fixed), or some previous accident damage.

RC64
07-19-2014, 09:55 PM
The one I got from Moss had creases stamped in along the edges that meet the radiator. These I folded back and along the edge of the radiator body. Going to be hard to see because of the grille but this is it:

I used the one with the creases from Moss also. It was pretty stiff after it had been painted so it took a lot of fiddling to get the fit right. But you're right, with the vertical creased edges folded aft, it fits perfectly along the sides of the radiator. That helps hold it in position.

I just finished installing mine this afternoon so I have some photos with the grille off.

33978339793398033981

Rick...

Geo Hahn
07-19-2014, 11:26 PM
Bruce & Rick (and Keith & Dick & Dan & Pat, etc.) --

A fellow could almost get depressed looking at these photos of your beautifully prepped and painted TRs.

I'm going out to the garage now and hug my car.

luke44
07-19-2014, 11:56 PM
...I just finished installing mine this afternoon so I have some photos with the grille off. Rick...

Rick: looking good, I love the powder blue color.

One thing worth noting is I did not screw/bolt mine down, there were no holes there (I see yours has 3 per side) to bolt to. This is because this part was introduced as a TR3A mid run change to try to deal with the overheating that never existed with the TR3 models.

I forget the exact number it was introduced at, but my guess from memory is it was somewhere around s/n 38000, maybe later. It was a dealer warranty back-fit for earlier TR3A cars at no cost to the owners who requested it, so perhaps these holes only existed on the later cars.

toysrrus
07-20-2014, 02:26 AM
Rick & All,

Thanx for posting all your pics.

My recent purchase of the shroud from Moss came with "4 Small (#8 or #10) Sheet Metal Screws"!! I said to myself; "What the heck am I supposed to do with these"? Certainly, Not mount the Shroud!! Thats what Moss`s catalog calls for?!?!?!?

No; I`m not going to use them!!

When I cross that bridge to install mine (Soon); It`ll be "2 or 3 Bolts" per side.

Rick; What size bolts did use? I have`nt looked to see if there any "Pre-Drilled" holes there, Yet.

Thanx Again All,

Russ

Geo Hahn
07-20-2014, 08:34 AM
Sheet metal screws are what I used, they seemed right for the factory holes.

It shouldn't take much to hold that lower edge in place, the shroud itself is securely clamped by the back end of the bumper guard support and the bolt that holds it.

Looking at Dick's photos, I think he also used sheet metal screws -- the kind with a hex head and flange (can't remember what they're called).

Tinkerman
07-20-2014, 08:40 AM
Russ, mine is a post 60000 car and has three holes per side on the apron. The holes are a size 10. No way to get a nut and bolt there unless I drilled them out so I'm going to use some pan head screws and washers. I think stainless because of where they are.
Great pictures! Sure answered all of my questions.
Dick

RC64
07-20-2014, 09:29 AM
Bruce...

Mine is TS51502 (1959 TR-3A) and there was no deflector on it when I bought it in 1963. I wasn't paying much (any :rapture:) attention to the "details" back then so I don't know if there were ever any screw holes. If there were any, I suspect that they were covered over during the recent body and paint work with the multiple coats of primer and paint. I improvised and drilled some new holes that are probably a little further out than what the original holes would have been. I don't think I'd have been able to use any original holes anyway. With the paint on the deflector, the crease on that lower flap is more like a rounded corner.

I must add here that you are partly responsible for the "looking good". The photos and dialog you've posted and provided have been a major help in my quest to get this job done right.

Rick...

RC64
07-20-2014, 09:50 AM
Russ...

I too had my doubts about the screws they listed, and that I bought from Moss. As I mentioned to Bruce below I opted for drilling new holes and using more substantial hardware. I considered using bolts, but decided to go with #10 SS hex head sheet metal screws. The deflector material is pretty stiff, but I also used #10 SS washers. The sheet metal at that location is sturdy enough for the screws to get a good bite.

I should add that there is enough room above that area so there is no problem getting a power drill in there.

Rick...

RC64
07-20-2014, 09:54 AM
McMasters calls them "hex washer head screws for sheet metal", but I like your "hex head and flange" better. :)

Rick...