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Guest
03-31-2014, 01:23 PM
O.K, I have a wifi router in the house, my studio is 1/10 of a mile away. My router wouldn't reach that far and neither would a booster so I ran cable out there and put a second wifi router in the studio. Well, neither one would work after that. AT&T (ISP)said it they would cancel each other out. (Both were from them). My question is, can you run a hard wired modem and a wifi on the same line or will I still have the same cancelling problems? They could tell which one I had hooked up and I'm under the impression they didn't like the idea of me having two of their routers even though I paid for them.

I can't just plug into my laptop as all I have is an ethernet port.

DNK
03-31-2014, 04:04 PM
That BS Billy
You can use multiple routers in the same house.
You just can name them the same.
Just re read the post
I might have misspoke.
I have no idea what a hard wired modem is.You know it is real, I mean "REAL" easy to add ends to a cat 5 wire.

PAUL161
03-31-2014, 05:26 PM
Usually a hard wired modem is internal in the computer and a phone wire just plugs in the back. If that's what your talking about, make sure the baud rate is up to snuff! You would probably want the highest one you can get. I have no idea how that would affect the wireless though.PJ

Guest
03-31-2014, 05:38 PM
This is what I have: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Aspire-5253-BZ602.46804.0.html

So if I just change the end I can shove it in and not need anything else?

DNK
03-31-2014, 05:41 PM
Change what end?

PAUL161
03-31-2014, 06:09 PM
Change what end?

Hmm, yes, good question.:confused: PJ

Guest
03-31-2014, 06:29 PM
.You know it is real, I mean "REAL" easy to add ends to a cat 5 wire.


Change what end?


Hmm, yes, good question.:confused: PJ


That end

GregW
03-31-2014, 06:36 PM
My wifi modem also has hardwire inputs, but those are RJ-45 (cat 5). I'm confused by the whole phone jack thing.

Guest
03-31-2014, 06:40 PM
My wifi modem also has hardwire inputs, but those are RJ-45 (cat 5). I'm confused by the whole phone jack thing.

I do not have a port that will accept a phone cord straight in. In other words, if I do have whatever modem I need in my laptop I am unable to hook it to the phone line as I don't have a phone jack in my laptop in which to hook said line into.

Guest
03-31-2014, 09:09 PM
Hello?

DNK
04-01-2014, 08:49 AM
So your computer does not have a cat 5 port . So you only do wifi.
Then what you need to do is run a cat 5 cable from your house to the "shed" and install another wireless router.

I just looked up your laptop and it says it has a Lan port.
So therefore it has a cat5 port

PAUL161
04-01-2014, 09:05 AM
Funny, I never noticed that this new laptop I'm on now has no port for a common phone line! Using wireless for everything I just never gave it a thought. My HP desktop tower has every port imaginable, including 6 USB ports! It also has an internal modem, but I use it on the wireless network. PJ

DNK
04-01-2014, 09:14 AM
Paul- you're talking about a cat3 port , correct?

PAUL161
04-01-2014, 09:17 AM
Paul- you're talking about a cat3 port , correct?
Yes, sorry. PJ

DNK
04-01-2014, 09:22 AM
Haven't seen a cat3 port on a computer in a while. Didn't even think they still used it

DrEntropy
04-01-2014, 09:33 AM
CAT-3 ports are pretty much phased out by now.

If you want to put a router in the workroom, run a CAT-5 cable between the two routers' LAN ports, but ahead of that get into the admin menu of the "second one" and change its settings to be a different IP than the usual default 192.168.1.1, put a 10 in the last octet.

And look up the proper way of putting RJ-45 ends on a twisted pair CAT-5 cable. It ain't rocket surgery but it needs to be CORRECT to work.

DNK
04-01-2014, 09:37 AM
Well it's about time doc.
I'm floundering here.
So you can add a cat5 end to a cable RJ45? interesting
So there you go Billy.
A couple of different options
and here is a pic
32562

DrEntropy
04-01-2014, 10:08 AM
The RJ-45 ends ARE what the CAT-5 cable has, Don: https://www.ehow.com/how_5152791_install-ethernet-cable-ends.html

And this is the standard for terminating CAT-5/6... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA/EIA-568-B

DrEntropy
04-01-2014, 10:12 AM
I use T568A for LAN cabling in my clients' installs.

EDIT: Home Despot has the stuff but Grainger's is a better source. The QC on the HD terminals is kinda "iffy." And the crimp tool there is a joke.

Guest
04-01-2014, 11:31 AM
Well it's about time doc.
I'm floundering here.
So you can add a cat5 end to a cable RJ45? interesting
So there you go Billy.
A couple of different options
and here is a pic
32562


LOL, I know it has that. That's what I've been saying all along. I don't have a cat5 cable END on the other end of the cable. Remember when I ran the lineout there with that special cable from the phone co that had jelly in it? That's what I'm using. I put another router out there and neither the inside nor outside would work together. ATT said no way, they cancel each other but I thik their stuff maybe rigged to do that.

My question is, if I put the correct end on the cable to fit in the port Don pictured will that be all I need and if so, will that still work while the other wifi inside is stll hooked up?

DNK
04-01-2014, 12:08 PM
Won't need wifi if you can put the RJ45 end (DOH, I knew that) on that cable correctly
How many feet to the shed?

Guest
04-01-2014, 12:10 PM
Won't need wifi if you can put the RJ45 end (DOH, I knew that) on that cable correctly
How many feet to the shed?

About 540, how big of a hammer do I need to put the end on? :hammer:

Guest
04-01-2014, 12:11 PM
The wifi I had would work on either end, you just couldn't use two of them together.

DNK
04-01-2014, 12:21 PM
Did you go in and change the address as Doc suggested?
What's the wifi unit?

Guest
04-01-2014, 01:46 PM
Netgear 7550 and I don't have the other one anymore so no, I didn't change anything.

DrEntropy
04-01-2014, 01:50 PM
What's the "jelly" cable? Is it a CAT-6? If so, you can fit an RJ-45 plug at each end. It should have four pairs of twisted wire: Green, Orange, Blue and Brown, each made of one solid-color and the other corresponding one with a colored stripe.

If you have CAT-3, it'll only have six single strands. Standard telephone cable. It can be used, but you will need to isolate each white wire and ID at both ends... I wouldn't even try to use that. Too much fiddling.

To try and use the second WiFi router at the end of the existing cable, first connect the router to a computer with a short CAT-5 cable, open a browser and type in the address: 192.168.1.1 and you should get the sign-in page for the router... asking for user name and password. Once logged in, you can poke around and find the place to reassign the IP addy.

EDIT: DISABLE the house router before you do this just in case you mistakenly get THAT admin page!

DrEntropy
04-01-2014, 01:53 PM
Netgear 7550 and I don't have the other one anymore so no, I didn't change anything.



So tell me again what we're s'posed to be doing?

DrEntropy
04-01-2014, 02:03 PM
hello?


ditto

DNK
04-01-2014, 02:50 PM
.... I don't have the other one anymore so no, I didn't change anything.

Thought you said you had 2

Guest
04-01-2014, 03:10 PM
Thought you said you had 2


Correct, had; past tense.

Guest
04-01-2014, 03:18 PM
Doc, I dunno what this stuff is. Old phone guy gave it to me. This is the stuff they buried underground to your house if they don't fly wires in; four heavy solid copper strands and comes on a 1000 foot roll.

Guest
04-01-2014, 03:21 PM
ditto



Doin' me chores today; cleaning upstairs and moving all my music gear up there so I'm back and forth.

DrEntropy
04-01-2014, 04:15 PM
That comm wire is kinda "old school," Billy. And the AT&T guys are essentially right. Without that second router we'll never know. Something tells me there's more to this than I know ATM. Do you have TWO devices in the house? A modem AND that Netgear router? I'm ~assuming~ you're using DSL and not broadband there.

My suggestion is to get a spool of CAT-6 (shielded) and run that from your in-house router (out of one of the LAN ports) to an out-house router.

Is the existing cable in a chase? If so, did you provision for "pulling" another cable? The CAT-5(or 6) cable ain't cheap but I can't see how you can do this any other way. 500ft is likely outside the range of average consumer WiFi routers and trying to set up an access point would be frustrating and spotty at best, IMHO.

DNK
04-01-2014, 05:43 PM
I think this went round and round when he put the big wire in

Guest
04-01-2014, 06:38 PM
All I am trying to do is hook up to anything to the other end of the cable-out line that will work with the house wifi still in place , be that a wifi, regular modem or if I can just plug straight into my computer. The out line is hooked straight into where the main phone line runs into the house. (that plastic box on the outside)

Doc, I had two identical ATT netgear units at one time. All I have is the one now, I had to send the other back. There is nothing at the other end of the out-house line now and I don't know what to get that will work with the house wifi still in place, thus my problem. If I take my house wifi out there with me and plug into the other end of the out-line it'll work fine. The problem is dragging that crap backl and forth. When I had two wifi's, (one inside and the other out) neither would work while the other was plugged in. Running new wire isn't an option in any way, shape or form. Getting and running what I have now was a big enough PITA as it is.

DrEntropy
04-01-2014, 08:39 PM
That Netgear thingie is commercially available. Get one from EBay or a flea market and do what I suggested in post #26. Changing the IP addy and making the "second" device will (or should) give you a chain to allow comm over a DSL LAN.

Guest
04-01-2014, 10:50 PM
K, will do but I can do the same with a cheaper hard wired modem, right? I don't have to have wifi out there.

dwalpole
04-02-2014, 05:20 AM
So all you really need is a long Cat 6 cable with standard plugs on the ends. Plug one end into your Router in the house and the other direct into your laptop. With the distance you need to cover high quality Cat 6 cable is going to be the best option - Not cheap. You other option is to purchase a WiFi range extender which *might* push your signal far enough.

DrEntropy
04-02-2014, 08:28 AM
:iagree:

DNK
04-02-2014, 09:01 AM
500 feet at about10 cents a foot for raw wire.
Pricey.

GBRandy
04-02-2014, 10:39 AM
I have lost track on where this is going...but here is what i did in my new house to get internet connection to the garage. Perhaps it will help...perhaps not.

If you are trying to split the ATT inbound signal into to modems, that will not work. They wont allow that.

It should go like this (The modem does have a built in router so they can be combined, I have separate ones as they are faster):

ATT MODEM ==> ROUTER ==>Computer
______________________==>Shared Printer
______________________==>Wireless
______________________==>Garage computer
______________________==>Etc

I have two wireless networks in my house. One secure for the family and one in the garage for friends that stop by to hangout.

The garage one is similar to what you want to do. I bought a box of CAT6 at Home Depot and have the tool to crimp ends on. It is putzy but not hard.

Once the run is complete and the ends attached, connect one end to your modem / router. the other end can now connect to your garage computer and all will work on the computer in the garage without any issues.

If you want a wireless set-up in your garage, buy a little router and split the long run so it can go to your garage computer and your garage wireless unit.

Remember, most wireless units need ot be "deployed" so you have to initially connect it direct to your computer to set it up.

Wireless signals are sketchy at best. Trying to push a home wireless signal that far will not work well IMHO.

Guest
04-02-2014, 04:50 PM
500 feet at about10 cents a foot for raw wire.
Pricey.

Like I said, aint happening. Question: If the stuff I have run out to the out building is the same stuff I have run underground coming in to my house, why can't I just use that and need cat6? In the end it's still coming in and going out on the same four strand type wire feeding my signals to begin with.

Guest
04-02-2014, 04:51 PM
LOL, I guess I could have run that stuff out there three times. The wire I have was free.

Guest
04-02-2014, 05:02 PM
You other option is to purchase a WiFi range extender which *might* push your signal far enough.

Tried that, won't work. Problem is there is no "middle". The furthest point is the same as where the wifi can be hooked up. I'm sure if someone knew what they were doing there is a hack to extend range but that person isn't me. When I was in trade school, I had a buddy that built an "illegal" CB system. I want to say it was like 1000 watts or something crazy like that. He'd go through McDonalds drive through and key the mic next to his speaker causing feedback which would bleed into the order intercom system. You could always see the chick in the window rip her headset off from all the racket. IIRC he could talk over the PA system at Kmart and Walmart through his CB too.

GBRandy
04-02-2014, 05:03 PM
Like I said, aint happening. Question: If the stuff I have run out to the out building is the same stuff I have run underground coming in to my house, why can't I just use that and need cat6? In the end it's still coming in and going out on the same four strand type wire feeding my signals to begin with.

But the signal needs to pas their modem to ensure you have paid your bill (among other things).

I can see what you are trying to do, but that will not fly with any ISP...unless of course you buy two subscriptions.

DNK
04-02-2014, 05:39 PM
OK, I'm gonna give it a shot
In you existing wire, How many bundled pairs and what are their colors billy?

Guest
04-02-2014, 06:26 PM
OK, I'm gonna give it a shot
In you existing wire, How many bundled pairs and what are their colors billy?

Four solid copper core wires: blue, blue/white; orange, orange/white; all copper shielded together then the black plastic insulation. I guess you would say all four are bundled together.

Guest
04-02-2014, 06:50 PM
Any way to use the trailer as an antenna?

GBRandy
04-02-2014, 07:09 PM
Four solid copper core wires: blue, blue/white; orange, orange/white; all copper shielded together then the black plastic insulation. I guess you would say all four are bundled together.

Not going to work. Missing brown / brown white & green / Green white

DNK
04-02-2014, 08:35 PM
Sold wire.
Didn't they quit using that in the 60's???
As Randy says
You're F......

Guest
04-02-2014, 10:42 PM
Sold wire.
Didn't they quit using that in the 60's???
As Randy says
You're F......

Marked 2007.

Guest
04-02-2014, 11:06 PM
Any way to use the trailer as an antenna?

For wifi?

dwalpole
04-03-2014, 01:35 AM
OK. So then we are on to going with a directional wifi antenna to essentially direct the entire beam to your workshop. Or, possibly, LAN over power lines setups, assuming that your workshop and house are serviced by the same breaker panel. But again none are exactly cheap.

The problem using the 4 strand wire that's already in the ground is going to be interference between the lines. The whole point of the 8 wire, twisted pairs is that they provide EMI (Electromagnetic Interference) shielding for each other which allows for the data rates we expect. Without the right wire you will be lucky to even see a connection, let alone get any data passed.

In any case you are loooking at about $100 solution on the cheap end.

This one would go into your laptop in the workshop and should help pickup your home wifi.
https://www.amazon.com/NextG-USB-Yagi-Range-antenna-2200mW/dp/B0044D7J1W/ref=cm_cr_dp_asin_lnk

This one would help establish LAN over power.
https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-over-POWER-Adapter-Pair/dp/B004C4XWN2

This one would push the signal from you house to the workshop.
https://www.amazon.com/TL-ANT2424B-Directional-Parabolic-connector-resistant/dp/B003CFATOW/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1396503220&sr=1-1&keywords=directional+wifi+antenna

DrEntropy
04-03-2014, 03:29 PM
The problem using the 4 strand wire that's already in the ground is going to be interference between the lines. The whole point of the 8 wire, twisted pairs is that they provide EMI (Electromagnetic Interference) shielding for each other which allows for the data rates we expect. Without the right wire you will be lucky to even see a connection, let alone get any data passed.

Perfect. I wuz gonna send 'im down th' ol' IEEE 802.11x rabbit-hole next... :devilgrin:


And Billy; if you go with the Yagi, put it on the roof of the trailer under something like a Rubbermaid tub to weatherproof it.

Guest
04-03-2014, 06:55 PM
The problem using the 4 strand wire that's already in the ground is going to be interference between the lines. Without the right wire you will be lucky to even see a connection, let alone get any data passed.

]

I don't understand how I can't use it but that's the same exact type of wire that carries all of the signals to and from my house to my IPS. What am I missing?

dwalpole
04-04-2014, 02:41 AM
Without getting to far into the CS and EE. The problem is how the signals are carried along the lines. The signal coming from you ISP is very different from the low voltage signals running along the LAN cable. The lan signal is optimized for speed and runs at low voltage and uses the twisted pairs to fight off bad signals generated by interference. I've even had problems with LAN cable and signal passage if the wiring sequence in the plug is off (same on both ends but off from what the spec calls for). The line from your ISP runs a difderent carrier signal which is more interference resistant. Too oversimplify it; it's like the difference between AM and FM they can do the same thing but provide different plusses and minuses (FM is clearer but has shorter transmit ranges).

Guest
04-04-2014, 07:21 AM
O.K, that makes sense. If someone could now explain to me why I can't run two modems on the same line that would be great. I don't understand why it has to be theirs and I don't get how that supposed to insure I pay my bill. From what it sounds like, if that's the case, all anyone needs is a modem and they get free internet. I don't understand it.

Mickey Richaud
04-04-2014, 07:28 AM
O.K, that makes sense. If someone could now explain to me why I can't run two modems on the same line that would be great. I don't understand why it has to be theirs and I don't get how that supposed to insure I pay my bill. From what it sounds like, if that's the case, all anyone needs is a modem and they get free internet. I don't understand it.

I think you just answered your own question... :smirk:

Guest
04-04-2014, 10:57 AM
So I can go to walmart, buy a modem and get free high speed internet? I don't get it. Our bill got screwed up before, they thought we cancelled but didn't so our internet was down. They did that through the modem? There isn't another way to shut it off?

dwalpole
04-04-2014, 11:16 AM
So, OK. If you go to ANYMART and buy a cable modem; you certainly can plug it in to the line coming from the street. The problems arise when your modem talks to the ISP's system. The ISP will ask your modem, to use the clubbing euphamism, "is it on the list?" What that really means is, is your modem registered with the ISP and is its MAC (Machine Address Code) address on file with the ISP. If your modem is not on file, you get no service. If it is on file then you are paying a bill through your ISP. The problem with runnning 2 modems is now you essentially need 2 accounts with the ISP, so you would be paying 2x the monthly fees.

Your modem's MAC address is like a fingerprint. Every network device has a unique MAC address it looks likes XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX (where X is hexadecimal(16), digits 0-9,A,B,C,D,E,F) giving 256^6 (280 trillion ish)possible devices worldwide.

Guest
04-04-2014, 12:45 PM
Ok, that makes sense. Thus I would need to run from my "approved" modem to out the via cat5 or 6 etc.... Gotcha, thanks for clearing that up.

So.....how do I steal my neighbors wifi signal out there....:devilgrin:

Just kidding, I can't pick up anyone's signal out there.

Looks like I'm back to carrying the unit out there and back. I think if I move the step van and hack a better antenna I may ber able to pick up my signal. (step van in in front of trailer to one side, yeah ,yeah, I know how it sounds but you really can't see it when you drive in or from the house)

(I kinda accidently bought a step van at an auction years ago. Bid was $200 and I didn't think I'd get it. GM diesel, needs trans work, wired for 120v all inside and has RV a/c in roof. great for storage and worth about $2000 in aluminum alone. The trans dropped dead in the yard shortly after it got here.)

Guest
04-04-2014, 05:46 PM
Well, I have decided to put the tv upstairs in the new "practice area" instead of trying to get internet up in front. This way I don't have to fight the heat in the trailer, the house will already be nice and cool.