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smdichter
02-20-2014, 01:35 AM
After 12 years, one spoke on one of my Dayton chrome 60-spoke wire wheels has pierced the sealing material and made a lot of bubbles in the soapy water. I have searched Phoenix area listng in vain to find a shop out here that repairs them. If anyone knows of a Phoenix, Arizona area shop that does this work, please let me know. Since the rubber is also 12 years old, it is time to replace the tires in any event. Suggestions as to make? Kumho 185x80x15 looks like a popular choice for a tubeless tire and Discount Tire sells them for $79 each. Suggestions welcome on that as well. Guy at Discount Tire says that tubes should not be used in tubeless tires. Thoughts on that would also be appreciated. Last, if the tires are going to be dismounted in any event, I suppose I could try to reseal the leaky one myself. I understand that you strip an area 2-4" around the single leaky spoke nipple with a wire wheel and then use silicone generously and let it cure for a few days. What type or brand silicone (or other material) is best? Or, is this so inherently a fools errand that it make more sense to send the wheel back to Dayton Wheels and - last question - does the mere passage of time and moderate road use since 2002 suggest that, even if the other wheels are not leaking, they soon must start doing so and, therefore, should all be sent back for re-sealing? Thanks for all suggestions.

martx-5
02-20-2014, 08:06 AM
Well, I would be inclined to think that since one wheel has started to leak, the others might not be far behind. I bought new wire wheels from Moss several years back, but they are not the sealed type. I had the wheels drop shipped to Hendrix Wire Wheel, considered to be a wire wheel guru, to have new tires, Vredestien Sprint Classics which are tubeless, to be mounted. There was no concern about putting tubes in tubeless tires, except for size. The tube MUST be of the correct size for the tire.

Here's a tidbit from another guru...The MGA Guru...which will shed some light on the "controversy" of tubes in tubeless tires.

https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/tires/ti104.htm

Tinkerman
02-20-2014, 08:57 AM
I put the rubber ring around the wheel and went with tubes for my wires. Not muche road use yet but no problems. To me trying to to put tubeless tires on wire wheels is just setting yourself up for future problems.

My thoughts, for what they are worth.

Cheers, Tinkerman

Keoke
02-20-2014, 03:03 PM
Guy at Discount Tire says that tubes should not be used in tubeless tires.

He ain't never seen no wire wheels. LOL

Putting a tube in is the most economical fix I know of;--Keoke-- the:- AZ :cowboy:

OH better hurry up gonna get hot pretty soon-LOL

smdichter
02-21-2014, 12:21 AM
I spoke to the guys at Dayton Wheels today. He recommended not putting a tube in a tubeless tire but he also told me that I can easily reseal the leaky spoke myself. No need, he said, to do more than the spoke that was leaking. Clean off the offending nipple and re-seal it with 3M Windshield Weld. Then let it cure for about 3 days. the 3M product sells for $25 a tube at AutoZone. Tire recommendation still needed. Right now, I have Vredestein 185/70 SR 15's on the 60 spoke road wheels and a 165R15 on the 48 spoke spare (so it will fit in the spare tire compartment). I was thinking of using Kudho 758's as Discount Tire sells them for $79/each. Other thoughts on tires? Thanks.

Keoke
02-21-2014, 01:38 AM
Right now, I have Vredestein 185/70 SR 15's on the 60 spoke road wheels

Verdestein and others do not make that tire anymore. However, Verdestein does have a tire that is identical to it under a different number that sells for a mere $160.00 apiece.

OH ! ; carry some fresh sealer with you when traveling out on the road and be sure you are close to a motel too so you can hunker down those three days while the wire wheel sealant cures .:friendly_wink:

Keoke
02-21-2014, 01:59 AM
Hi Art A spoke wire wheel iis not a conventional tubeless wheel.
For that type wheel I agree.
However, it was pointed out by another lister trying to make a spoke wire wheel tube less is just setting you up for a failure in the future.IMOP Too

toysrrus
02-21-2014, 04:28 AM
Hi Folks,

I`m just driving thru & wanted to add my $.02 / Exp.

Tubless tires or not; 1st. Put a Rubber Ring on wheel to prevent puncturing the tube. I`ve "Always" put a tube on a wire wheel; "Always"; and never had a problem. I`ve even put tubes on my ex. `57TR3 disc wheel car simply to prevent any chance of "Slow" leaks that ultimately turn into "Big" leaks.

My $.02.

Regards, Russ

smdichter
02-21-2014, 09:55 AM
Russ: Define "rubber ring"and who sells them, please. Do you mean something like the mylar you get at a bicycle store to put between the tube and the rim?

TFB
02-21-2014, 11:42 AM
Russ: Define "rubber ring"and who sells them, please. Do you mean something like the mylar you get at a bicycle store to put between the tube and the rim?

I believe someone on this forum discussing the the tubeless tires with tubes issue made the point that tires made for tubes are smooth inside,while tubeless tires may have areas that can chafe the tube and lead to failure.
Spoked rims with tubless tires are widely used in the motorcycle industry OEM,not aftermarket.
Tom

mikephillips
02-21-2014, 12:44 PM
Russ: Define "rubber ring"and who sells them, please. Do you mean something like the mylar you get at a bicycle store to put between the tube and the rim?

Wire wheels for use with tube would have a heavy rubber band on the inside of the rim that covered all the spoke ends. The idea is that as the nipple ends move with wheel flexing they rub against the band and have to wear through it before rubbing against the tube. I would guess that Dayton or Hendrix or any other specialist in wire type wheels could provide them. Note, they do not seal air in, just provide a wear surface.

Tinkerman
02-21-2014, 06:18 PM
I'll answer for Russ: "rubber ring" Moss motors: Spring - Summer catalog page 98, item #7, Cat # 452-750. TRF and VB probably have them also. They call it a rim band. Probably rubber but it does not say in the catalog.

Hope it works for you, Tinkerman

Keoke
02-21-2014, 06:30 PM
Russ: Define "rubber ring"and who sells them, please. Do you mean something like the mylar you get at a bicycle store to put between the tube and the rim?

What he is referring too is a "Rim Band " Check Moss Motors " {Wheels/Acessories}for them.

YES Dick they are made out of rubber and cover the spoke ends inside the wheel so that the spoke ends do not chew in to the tube.

smdichter
02-21-2014, 09:53 PM
Had the offending Vredestein 185/70 SR15 dismounted from the 60 spoke chrome Dayton wheel and instantly saw where the sealant had been compromised on the spoke I had identified from the outside with soapy water as the leaker. BTW, the Dayton wheel has the rim band installed. It cover all the inner spoke nipples but not the outer spokes, which is where the leaky one was. Used a Dremel wire wheel to clear the old sealant and prep sol for final cleaning and then used the 3M Windshield Weld to re-seal the nipple. It is now curing and will for the weekend. Re tires, I cannot find that Kumho makes a 185/70 R15. Any suggestions other than the $160 Vredestein now under a different number? It looks like the Kumho 165/70 R15 is $80 and, as the car is not used on the freeway, does the group think it will adequate for regular road use? Any other suggestions?

Keoke
02-21-2014, 10:34 PM
I have no experience with the Kuhmo tire but it has a good reputation among modern car owners

.Concerned differences for the165 are:
It's Diameter is ~ 1" Less

It's width is also ~ 1" less @ 6.5"----- This will reduce handling

Speedo will show 38.3 MPH @ 40 MPH

FordFiesta
02-22-2014, 12:09 AM
If you do put tubes in tubeless tires, make sure and dust the tubes and the inside of the tire very well with talcum powder ("baby powder" now isn't talcum, but cornstarch, however the "hypo-allergenic" type baby powder was (last time I looked, anyhow) still real talcum powder. My own preference is that I'd rather live with chafing-possibility than the chance of a sudden deflation caused by a broken spoke breaking the air seal of a tubeless tire without a tube in it. I've run tubes in tubeless tires on original Morgan and Triumph wire wheels (60 + 72-spoke) for over three decades without ill effect, but YMMV.

The "rubber ring" referenced above is a rim band (in old-car speak) and a Model A Ford place would have them, but a cheap substitute is to get black "plumber's tape" from a local hardware store and put a couple of turns of it in the well of your wire wheel's dropped center section. Having a good seal with plumber's tape might make the tubeless tire work OK without an inner tube. I haven't tried it, though.

A default option would be to go to Panasports or some other modern wheel made for tubeless tires to begin with.

toysrrus
02-22-2014, 03:39 AM
I'll answer for Russ: "rubber ring" Moss motors: Spring - Summer catalog page 98, item #7, Cat # 452-750. TRF and VB probably have them also. They call it a rim band. Probably rubber but it does not say in the catalog.

Hope it works for you, Tinkerman

Hi Folks,

Thanx for answering the question for me.

FYI; I`ve also used "Electrical Tape" on the Inside of the rim to cover the nipples on occassion. Its flexible & an inexpensive way to go. Several wraps around the rim & you should be "Good to Go".

Regards, Russ

Geo Hahn
02-22-2014, 12:48 PM
This is how my Dayton wheels looked upon delivery:

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/1969%20Jaguar%20XKE/OriginalSeal_zps7b8555de.jpg

They had a few small leaks which I took care of with this product (got it via Amazon):

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/1969%20Jaguar%20XKE/3M5200_zps58b7a158.jpg

Put in on with a caulking gun and smoothed it with a tongue depressor:

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/1969%20Jaguar%20XKE/Fin_zps017cb6dd.jpg

After they had cured/dried for a few days, I covered that work with metal-type duct tape (not the gooey cloth stuff):

https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc499/Ahwahnee18/1969%20Jaguar%20XKE/RegMetalWrap_zps88f16756.jpg

Coverage is much more complete than what Dayton had done (they just do a dab at each spoke). The metal tape protects the sealant when you are mounting, dismounting or bead-breaking. First I did just the wheels that were leaking but then did all to be sure. Be fine (leak free) for quite some time.


When I do use tubes I wrap the inner rim with PVC pipe wrap, this stuff:

https://www.amazon.com/Orbit-Sprinkler-System-50-Foot-53550/dp/B0013I71Q4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393087272&sr=8-1&keywords=20+mil+pipe+wrap

Usually available at Ace 'and other fine stores'. I have never had a problem using tubes w/ tubeless tires though you want to be very sure to remove all labels and all adhesive from inside the tire as well as using lots of baby powder on the tube. Also - inflate, deflate and then inflate a second time to get the tube settled in w/o any kinks or wrinkles.