PDA

View Full Version : Windows 8



aeronca65t
08-14-2013, 06:53 AM
My new, conventional HP lap top came with Windows 8. We have both really tried to learn the benefits if this OS but today, I am officially giving up. In my opinion, this software was clearly intended for touch-screen / tablet devices and does not belong in a keyboard/mouse environment. It is pathetic and un-intuitive for conventional computers. I have many more words to describe this OS, but they are not allowed on British Car Forum. I've been tempted to do a full-format and switch to Linux, but I work at a college and we have a deal for employees: we can get Windows Pro 7 for $9.00. So I'm switching back to Windows 7 (there are other benefits to keeping Windows which have to do with my Pro-E and AutoCAD setup). I realize that Win 8.1 is coming out in October, but honestly I couldn't live another daywith this software. :madder:

martx-5
08-14-2013, 07:35 AM
I've heard a lot of bad stuff about Windows 8 from the IT guys here at work, so when I was looking for a cheap laptop to use for Mega-Squirt applications, they told me to get one with Windows 7. As it turned out, one of the guys at work had an old laptop that he wasn't using that he graciously gave me. All I had to do was get a battery for it. It has XP on it with a serial port, so it's perfect for Mega-Squirt.

Sometimes "upgrades" are NOT improvements.

BustedKnuckles
08-14-2013, 07:47 AM
Windows 8 does lean towards touch screen but it is really designed to function cross-platform...PC to laptop to tablet to phone. One document saved to any one of them is immediately saved to all of them, and with the very similar user interface on each device retrieval is quicker and more familiar. It doesn't have the kind of user interface that is particularly useful on a stand-alone device.

NutmegCT
08-14-2013, 07:55 AM
Just a side comment ... it seems that younger folks don't use a traditional "computer" anymore. Not for fun, not for work. Most "computers" these days are used for "fun" - social connections, photo and video, games, etc. Only traditional offices seem to have computers with keyboards and a mouse.

I remember the ancient days, when a computer had a monitor and keyboard, and three pieces of software: WordStar, dBase, Lotus 1-2-3. All were used for work.

https://www.vintagecomputer.net/commodore/thm_B700_dbaseII.JPG

The times they are a changing.

Tom
PS - I had a Commodore 128, which included cp/m. Did my doctoral dissertation research and writing on it. Printed on a daisy-wheel Royal typewriter. Wow.

PAUL161
08-14-2013, 09:03 AM
Nial, W8 doesn't like letting you convert back to W7! But, it will except all W7 programs that I've tried. You can download the W7 menu and attach it to the task bar, bringing back the older controls. After getting used to it, it's not that bad. Works great with a mouse. I hated it at first and couldn't wait to get rid of it on this new machine, but now everything is easier and very quick I might add. As far as I know, if you want to get rid of it, you have to wipe the HD, then format it and install a full blown W7 program back in. If you have a Toshiba machine, I'll never own another, it could be difficult as you have to reload all Toshiba's own drivers, most others won't work. PJ

DrEntropy
08-14-2013, 10:18 AM
Get the Win 7 Pro, low-level format the HD (ixquick search "UBCD" and burn it to CD or a thumb drive) and install 7. Don't look back. I can't find a "naked" laptop for sale (no OS pre-installed) anyplace, we all are forced into paying "the Micro$oft tax" when buying a machine. Extortion is a phrase which comes to mind. Along with collusion.

PAUL161
08-14-2013, 12:11 PM
Doc, I have W-7 on two machines and W-8 on this new one. I first cloned the hard drive on the new one and then went through the proper procedure to clean it and install W-7. Being a Toshiba, it fought me all the way and never did get it installed properly. I have two licensed versions of W-7 and neither would install. I recalled the drivers off of the cloned HD but to no avail as their drivers are, I guess, wrapped around the W-8 platform. With disgust, I cloned the W-8 back in and all is well. I even installed a new W D hard drive as the original drive is a Toshiba, made no difference. PJ

https://static.flickr.com/2671/4118967269_a46aff35e3_d.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/44763339@N04/4118967269/)

BustedKnuckles
08-14-2013, 01:35 PM
...I can't find a "naked" laptop for sale (no OS pre-installed) anyplace, we all are forced into paying "the Micro$oft tax" when buying a machine. Extortion is a phrase which comes to mind. Along with collusion.There is always the option of having your computers built for you. There are many people who will do it. And the service is infinitely superior to what you will get with any office store system.

GregW
08-15-2013, 07:36 AM
There is always the option of having your computers built for you. There are many people who will do it. And the service is infinitely superior to what you will get with any office store system.

Keyword was laptop. I can build desktops all day long and have each one be completely different. I don't know where I'd get new parts to build a laptop.

TOC
08-15-2013, 03:49 PM
It's the drivers. Toshiba, I have been told, is the absolute worst for building new computers for new OS with new drivers. If I could find XP drivers for this POS Toshiba, I'd change it out so fast walls would implode in Redmond from the suction.
That said:

Mine is as close as I can get to XP for an 8.
I bought Start8, really expensive at 4.99..... there are others, like classic shell.

I removed hot spots, charms, tiles, or at least made them so they didn't load. I have a green XP start button that works just like a green XP start button should.
I have a decent separate start menu, search functions, run functions.
I deleted all the MS garbage and all the games.
Also killed the hybrid shutdown so it really shuts down.

Just don't try to find "Documents and Settings", as it's a placeholder only.
Morons can't keep it all the same.

8.1 is being pitched as a fix. It isn't. It just adds more garbage and tiles.
I am not going to load it, as I am more happy with what I have here.
Read in the paper today (yes, I still read print newspapers) that MS is being sued over....creative ways of hiding the fact that their version of the tablet with 8 isn't selling at all...that the stock is huge.
One of the reasons you see the ads on TV that tell you the MS Tablet is selling cheaper than whatever it is they are comparing it to.
Can't sell 8.
Can't sell the tablet with 8 on it.
Anybody know where to find XP drivers for a Toshiba C855?
Dave

aeronca65t
08-15-2013, 05:10 PM
Here's an update on my deal:

From my point of view, this Windows 8 is almost unusable. The fact that I'm being forced to continue to use it makes me hate Microsoft more and more.

When I bought this laptop, it didn't say anything about what OS it had on the box. I assumed it would have Windows 7 (silly me) and had not heard about all the nonsense with Win 8. I'll admit, I bought the laptop in a hurry. My regular (work-issued) laptop had frozen beyond any hope of repair and we were heading for New Hampshire to a vintage race (I know...it sounds weird to say you need a computer at a vintage race, but there you go).

So when I realized how bad this software is, I legally purchased a vesion of Windows 7 through my college via a download and burned it to a DVD, I spent several hours trying get it to load, but always getting various messages that the DVD was currupt or had improper files.

Eventually, I gave up and called Microsoft. After the usual delay, I was connected to a technician.

I was able to give him the Product Key (since it was a legal purchase from MS) and he verifed that it should work. He "took over" my computer but was also unable to have any success.

Eventually, he connected me to a MS website and had me install a new DVD and download/burn a new version of Windows 7. Since it was the entire OS, the download took 40 minutes.

Then he tried to load Windows 7 and, once again, no success.

I was probably on the phone with him for almost two hours. Eventually, he found out that my Windows product key was only good if I wanted to set up for Windows 7 PRO.

But he discovered that I could only revent back to Windows 7 PRO from Windows 8 PRO .

My computer had "regular" Windows 8 and not the "PRO" version so my effort violated an MS "rule".

The MS tech appoligized and said he felt bad for wastng my time.

He was a nice enough fellow but I told him his company's "rule" about this s__ks and that in the long run I will probably move to Linux.

He could only make two other suggestions.

He suggested I buy Windows 8 PRO, install it and THEN use my burned DVD to install Windows 7 PRO (!?!?!?). Imagine?

Not happening.....

Then he gave me a link to a non-Microsoft site that provided a free Windows 7 download that would run for 30 days. He suggested (I kid you not) that within 30 days I could probably "find" a product key to keep the Win 7 running! In other words, their own techs are suggesting I use a pirate copy. Wow!

Anyway, I talked to our IT guy at work. Since I work for a college, he is pretty sure he can get me a legal, courtesy copy of Win 7.

If not, it's Linux for me. We'll see......

NutmegCT
08-15-2013, 05:35 PM
I ran into a similar, but not nearly as frustrating, situation when I moved the museum's WinXP Dell desktops to Win7 Pro. Halfway through the installation, I'd always get "missing DVD/CD driver".

After a zillion Google searches, I discovered that instead of following MicroSoft's instructions to boot from the installation DVD, instead you boot normally with WinXP, then run setup.exe from the DVD. Worked fine.

I went with Windows 7 due to the almost non-existent "learning curve" of training an all-volunteer staff, only working one day a week.

Every day I get home, I happily open my Fedora Linux 18 and actually get things accomplished - without incessant "Updates have been installed - system will reboot in 30 seconds" messages.

Tom

Brooklands
08-15-2013, 10:00 PM
I bought a 27 inch iMac for myself and have never looked back. I have installed Windows 7 on a partition so I can boot into MAC OS or Windows. In fact, with a program called Parallels I can actually run both simultaneously and switch back and forth at the touch of a button. I still have a few programs that I need Windows for, but eventually I plan to migrate everything to the Mac.

Since I did not have a copy of Windows to run on my iMac, I added an app named CrossOver, and it allows me to run my copies of Word and Excel on the Mac without a copy of Windows. It might not be as elegant, but it was much cheaper than getting a Mac copy of Office.

NutmegCT
08-15-2013, 11:05 PM
Dave - good to hear from you. You might also check out Open Office, or Libre Office. They're work-alikes to MS Office, for Mac (and Windows, and Linux).

Tom

TOC
08-16-2013, 12:30 AM
First thing I did with 8, before anything else, was to kill off updates. I can re-animate them, but my experience with Redmond has been far less than good with respect to their updates.
My XP boxes will reach and far exceed MTBF on the hard drives before I need weekly updates. And, I figured 8.1 would be "mandated", and I don't want them messing with my system any more, thankyouverymuch.
Dave

DrEntropy
08-16-2013, 08:03 AM
There is always the option of having your computers built for you. There are many people who will do it. And the service is infinitely superior to what you will get with any office store system.

I'm a system builder. As Greg's post notes, I can build a desktop to a client's specific needs, throw together any number of components for a workstation. I can't source ANY generic laptop non-proprietary bits 'n pieces, let alone buy one built without an OS. Dell and Asus had a claim they would offer such, but that was a few years ago and we never saw 'em. The excuse is that they can't warranty the hardware without knowing what OS the end (L)user would be installing. Lame excuse to remain in Redmond's good graces. And as a niche software author, if you don't PAY them for a "Certified Software Partner" label, they are completely unwilling to assist with getting compliant device driver info for you. Dictatorial practices across the board.

Nial (and Tom) is right. Linux just RUNS. I've put Ubuntu on several Toshi laptops, have an OLD IBM T-40 Thinkpad running CentOS as my drag-around to use at clients' places. The T-40 would probably go to its knees if I tried to get Win7 to run on it. With CentOS, the thing runs fine: SAMBA, OpenOffice, Firefox, GIMP, Thunderbird, PDF Reader... "Anything Win can do, Lin can do better."

999 times out of 1K the posts I've made here were from a CentOS machine. Been using either Red Hat or the various open source versions for about two decades now. Many of my clients are running Linux on their servers and will never go back to MS.

Brooklands
08-16-2013, 08:25 AM
Dave - good to hear from you. You might also check out Open Office, or Libre Office. They're work-alikes to MS Office, for Mac (and Windows, and Linux).

Tom

Tom, I have Libre Office on the Mac, but I have had some features that I could not get to work properly for me, and by using Cross Over on the Mac I no longer needed to fire up the Acer Laptop with Windows XP and keep sending files back and forth to do what I wanted. I could not get Libre Office to print the juke box music labels from a mail merge of the spread sheet of 45 rpm records at America On Wheels.

PAUL161
08-18-2013, 09:34 AM
It's the drivers. Toshiba, I have been told, is the absolute worst for building new computers for new OS with new drivers. If I could find XP drivers for this POS Toshiba, I'd change it out so fast walls would implode in Redmond from the suction.
That said:


Dave

That's the problem I had/have! I'll never own another Toshiba! I've never had a problem with a HP computer, should a stuck with them, but in a hurry, I grabbed this thing while in Best Buy and have been sorry ever since. Like Dave said, it's Toshibas setup to use their own drivers and rarely use anyone elses. It's almost as if they put a block on using other drivers. I can get it to except Ubuntu, but it won't allow me to install Fedora!?!? I tried to install Fedora 12 and it won't even load it. So I gave up and cloned back the w-8 mess and am putting up with it. Maybe I can load Windows 3.1 in it, never had a problem there! LOL, Only problem is, my copy is on 5.5 floppies! Ha! Gotta maintain a sense of humor. PJ

GregW
08-18-2013, 10:37 AM
I can get it to except Ubuntu, but it won't allow me to install Fedora!?!? I tried to install Fedora 12 and it won't even load it.

12? The current version of Fedora is 19. You will almost always fail an install of an old OS onto a new computer. Doesn't matter whose OS. I've installed XP on a newer computer by slipstreaming new drivers onto the install disc, but that was a pain to do.

PAUL161
08-20-2013, 12:56 PM
Fedora 19! Thanks Greg, I'll have to download a copy. If I burn it to a disk, will it become corrupted? Seems like some of this stuff doesn't like to be burnt.

GregW
08-20-2013, 10:44 PM
I haven't had any troubles burning to disc. I have F17 with KDE on my home computer and F18 with Mate on the old laptop. The install can be put onto a thumb drive too. HERE (https://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora) is a good start. Fedora with Gnome or KDE will require something bigger than a CD. The default download on the linked page will give you Gnome (not my personal favorite). Just below that you'll see "More Download Options..." That will take you to all the stock ISOs that you would burn to disk. Each desktop will have a 32 or 64 bit version depending on what type of CPU your computer has.

TOC
08-20-2013, 10:57 PM
That's the problem I had/have! I'll never own another Toshiba! I've never had a problem with a HP computer, should a stuck with them, but in a hurry, I grabbed this thing while in Best Buy and have been sorry ever since. Like Dave said, it's Toshibas setup to use their own drivers and rarely use anyone elses. It's almost as if they put a block on using other drivers. I can get it to except Ubuntu, but it won't allow me to install Fedora!?!? I tried to install Fedora 12 and it won't even load it. So I gave up and cloned back the w-8 mess and am putting up with it. Maybe I can load Windows 3.1 in it, never had a problem there! LOL, Only problem is, my copy is on 5.5 floppies! Ha! Gotta maintain a sense of humor. PJ

I still have all my 95 discs...floppys...and a couple of floppy drives.....mayhaps I should go back to 95. Morons in Redmond, anyway. Gotta keep the lemmings buying new OS every couple of years to keep Billy's stock value up with Warren Buffet....