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View Full Version : Live and learn… then learn some more… (painting)



David_Doan
06-25-2013, 12:13 AM
It’s summer, over 90 degrees and I finally started painting… not the best combination. I started with a door. The door is one of the harder pieces to paint due to the structure on the inside. I decided to use a Preval sprayer to do the inside of the door, and a roller on the outside.

On the first attempt with the sprayer, the primer was too thick, then I thinned it again ~20%. It was spraying beautifully, but I forgot that it is not a real spray can. When I turned it almost sideways, it sucked paint in the the air supply and blew paint blobs all over my almost finished 1st coat.

In my research for Interlux Pre-kote primer, I read that a lot of people roll it on straight out of the can. That might be OK at 70 degrees, not 80-90. So the first coat of rolled primer looked more like textured wallboard.

So, I sanded most of the 1st coat off due to the above issues, then wiped it down with thinner per the instructions. In areas where the Pre-kote was sanded off, thinner got under the adjacent Pre-kote and the Pre-kote lifted. I sanded it all off and started over.

The spraying went better the next time, except that I forgot to tune my brain that this is again not real spray paint and I got major runs. I remembered not to tilt it too much, but sprayed too much.

The roller part went better, thinned the primer to about 20%, and it rolled much better. the mistake this time was stopping to grab my camera to take a pic before I tipped it with a dry roller. The tipping still worked but some areas had dried, leaving a texture I had to sand off again.

The good thing about the hot weather is that you can recoat in less time. Tonight while spraying what should have been the last coat, I learned one more thing. The previous coat was really good, I had one sag (almost run) that I sanded off. When I sprayed fresh primer on that spot, it was not as dry as the other areas and it crazed and lifted. I will have to let that part dry thoroughly, sand it and try again….

Before Tipping
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FsIs5Z4KDCc/UckCcO7BlPI/AAAAAAAAI6U/JsjQ44gGtco/s912/DSC_1126.JPG


After tipping
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CtM6fLvcIkE/UckCcok11AI/AAAAAAAAI6g/F_L9Lo4UJ5E/s912/DSC_1127.JPG

While waiting for the door primer to dry, I worked on the wheels. The first paint I tried was was Rustoleum Matt Nickel Metallic. I tried it twice, both times it had a dusty texture, it was drying to fast. The next time I tried Dupli-color Silver Wheel paint. To slow the drying, I stored the paint and the wheel in the house, and painted early in the morning. This one turned out pretty good, has a couple things I want to fix, but you have to wait 7 days to recoat.

While waiting, I stripped down another wheel and tried Rustoleum Smoke Gray Gloss. The traditional rustoleum colors dry much slower than the metallics. The gray laid down beautifully (even though I shot it in my 95 degree garage) and has a beautiful wet looking gloss. I've not 100% decided yet, but I think I like the gloss gray better than the metallic silver.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-tvf0O1Ap0vM/UckCdRU6mbI/AAAAAAAAI6s/b_ksRsPzkmw/s912/DSC_1130.JPG

58Custom
06-25-2013, 09:56 AM
Tipping?

Roller?

David_Doan
06-25-2013, 10:21 AM
Tipping?

"Tipping off is pulling the brush over the surface to level out the finish"



Roller?

I'm using a high density roller instead of a brush. Google "$50 Paint Job". By-the-way, it cost a lot more that $50. $50 might cover the sandpaper - plus primer,paint, rollers, bondo, etc... The Roll-your-own paint job is not cheap, it is for crazy people that are determined not to sub-out anything on their car.

Guest
06-25-2013, 11:08 AM
You gotta sprayer, why not just shoot the whole thing once you figure out how to use it. FWIW, I have a friend who shot his entire truck with POR 15 straight outta the can with no thinner. You can imagine what that looks like....kinda like the "fat" car.

David_Doan
06-25-2013, 11:33 AM
You gotta sprayer, why not just shoot the whole thing once you figure out how to use it. FWIW, I have a friend who shot his entire truck with POR 15 straight outta the can with no thinner. You can imagine what that looks like....kinda like the "fat" car.

I thought about that. I only rollered the door as an exercise to learn how to do it. This paint dries slow enough that could probably paint the door with the Preval sprayer, but the whole car would be a challenge, and my garage has no windows. I really wanted to spray the whole car with a real spray gun, but ventilation was the main issue. Just spraying the inside of the door and the sides fogged up the garage pretty good.

The best part about the roller job is saying you did it with a roller - assuming it turns out good.

David_Doan
06-25-2013, 11:34 AM
FWIW, I have a friend who shot his entire truck with POR 15 straight outta the can with no thinner. You can imagine what that looks like....kinda like the "fat" car.

Cellulite instead or orange peel

Guest
06-25-2013, 04:59 PM
Choot the doors and fenders in the back yard and the car out in the driveway.

Guest
06-25-2013, 05:08 PM
Preval sprayer.

Oh, you have that thing. I'd try to shoot it with an airless spray gun before I'd try the whole car with preval or a roller but that's just me. Go with whatever you fell most comfortable with.

Picasso once said, "I do things I can't do in order that I can do them."

I'm pretty sure he didn't use a preval or a roller either. :grin:

David_Doan
06-25-2013, 05:16 PM
Choot the doors and fenders in the back yard and the car out in the driveway.


I really wanted to shoot it, I have a big air compressor, but my garage won't work. I live in Frisco Texas, everything here is big except garages and lots. House is 3500 feet, lot is 7000. Driveway faces the back and we have a pool. Wood fence all the way around and an iron fence between the pool and the driveway. I was originally going to paint it red. I was fearful of lots of pink stuff afterwards.

AN5Sprite
06-25-2013, 07:39 PM
You get a lot less overspray with an HVLP gun. I've got an expensive Graco setup but I just saw a complete rig recently that was dirt cheap at a Rockler wood worker's store. I wouldn't hesitate to try one of those before the brush/roller deal. Even if you just sort of wheeze it on in the hard to reach spots and roll the larger areas.

Guest
06-25-2013, 09:16 PM
i really wanted to shoot it, i have a big air compressor, but my garage won't work. I live in frisco texas, everything here is big except garages and lots. House is 3500 feet, lot is 7000. Driveway faces the back and we have a pool. Wood fence all the way around and an iron fence between the pool and the driveway. I was originally going to paint it red. I was fearful of lots of pink stuff afterwards.

choot 'em !!!! Choot 'em !!!

Jim_Gruber
06-27-2013, 12:36 PM
David, Team,

Any comments on AllMetal or Lab Metal Aluminized body fillers. All Metal makes this claim, "Premium aluminum filled body filler ideal for metal leveling or mending. Use for rust repair, over spot welds, and as a finish coat over all types of body fillers. All-Metal is the preferred body filler for restoration work and classic car repairs. Adheres great to metal and has the look and feel of lead. Includes liquid reactor hardener. Made in USA.

David, this stuff is better than bondo but of course harder to sand and finish. Thinking something like this might do the trick on your rear deck. Metal pieces need to be clean and non rusty, but reviews talk well about this stuff.

Who has used this Lab Metal or AllMetal Filler?

John_Progess
06-27-2013, 01:58 PM
I used All Metal on the first MGA I restored. I did most of the body work in lead and then used a light coat of All Metal to cover the imperfections. I used it over bare metal and it is good stuff but much more difficult to sand. On all the other restorations I have done (6) I have used Rage body filler applied over 2K epoxy primer. I think this is a superior repair. The main problem is water getting under the body filler and rusting. The epoxy primer helps solve this issue. Have a good day!

David_Doan
06-27-2013, 02:40 PM
David, Team,

Any comments on AllMetal or Lab Metal Aluminized body fillers. All Metal makes this claim, "Premium aluminum filled body filler ideal for metal leveling or mending. Use for rust repair, over spot welds, and as a finish coat over all types of body fillers. All-Metal is the preferred body filler for restoration work and classic car repairs. Adheres great to metal and has the look and feel of lead. Includes liquid reactor hardener. Made in USA.

David, this stuff is better than bondo but of course harder to sand and finish. Thinking something like this might do the trick on your rear deck. Metal pieces need to be clean and non rusty, but reviews talk well about this stuff.

Who has used this Lab Metal or AllMetal Filler?

that stuff sounds good, but since this is my first go at this, I'm just going to use Evercoat Rage Gold. It is supposed to be easy to sand. The old filler actually held up well. Water got in around the bumper bolts and it rusted and started to separate. 'm going to hit those areas with POR15 before putting the bondo on. It looks like the crazing was caused by the paint, its all over the car, even where there's no bondo. As i'm sanding, I can see crazing that was previously not visible. The fine dust lights up the little cracks.

dklawson
06-30-2013, 11:49 AM
'm going to hit those areas with POR15 before putting the bondo on.

I have used POR in several places. It is good stuff and has its applications. I would be hesitant to use it under Bondo or any other filler without some additional steps being taken.

I am going to assume that the POR formula is unchanged since my last use for it. In general, POR does not stick to sound metal surfaces. The surface needs to be sanded, abraded, and/or heavily acid etched to get a good "tooth" for the POR to lock into. Failure to have a keyed surface like that invites the POR to lift around the edges. Once POR is applied and cures, the surface will be glassy smooth and little of anything will want to stick to it. There is a primer made to apply over POR but I did not have a lot of luck with it. Perhaps there are new improved versions of that primer. What worked better for me was using a fog coat of regular primer in the last stages of the POR's final curing. Once the POR cured and the fog coat was dry a heavier coat of primer would stick well. If you POR coat the problem areas you mentioned, you are probably going to need to try a similar approach of applying a primer first before the body filler and you will need to be careful not to sand down to bare metal again when you hit the high spots. I would experiment with samples before attempting this on the car itself if in doubt about what will work.

David_Doan
06-30-2013, 01:25 PM
I have used POR in several places. It is good stuff and has its applications. I would be hesitant to use it under Bondo or any other filler without some additional steps being taken.

I am going to assume that the POR formula is unchanged since my last use for it. In general, POR does not stick to sound metal surfaces. The surface needs to be sanded, abraded, and/or heavily acid etched to get a good "tooth" for the POR to lock into. Failure to have a keyed surface like that invites the POR to lift around the edges. Once POR is applied and cures, the surface will be glassy smooth and little of anything will want to stick to it. There is a primer made to apply over POR but I did not have a lot of luck with it. Perhaps there are new improved versions of that primer. What worked better for me was using a fog coat of regular primer in the last stages of the POR's final curing. Once the POR cured and the fog coat was dry a heavier coat of primer would stick well. If you POR coat the problem areas you mentioned, you are probably going to need to try a similar approach of applying a primer first before the body filler and you will need to be careful not to sand down to bare metal again when you hit the high spots. I would experiment with samples before attempting this on the car itself if in doubt about what will work.


You're right, nothing sticks to POR15. What I meant was apply POR15 in and around the bumper holes, then sand it off the exterior, and apply filler. This will get POR15 everywhere that filler is not to prevent rust from encroaching from inside the car.

dklawson
06-30-2013, 02:03 PM
That sounds like a good plan.

I hope you continue to post pictures as your project moves forward. I look forward to hearing your experiences with different products and seeing before and after photos.

David_Doan
06-30-2013, 03:07 PM
Doug, evering thing i have done with the car since I got it in the summer of 2011 is in my blog. I have a family trip this weekend, bondo and paint starts on tuesday.

David_Doan
06-30-2013, 03:08 PM
choot 'em !!!! Choot 'em !!!

It's not an alligator, its a frog.

Guest
06-30-2013, 03:43 PM
It's not an alligator, its a frog.

Never seen the show but being from south La I know exactly what that's about.

BlueMax
06-30-2013, 04:42 PM
My car was sand blasting then 80 grit sanded, then body soldered. I sealed all the seams to my car with POR-15. After the POR-15 cured I scuffed the POR-15, with 180 grit sand paper. Then I primed the entire car in Spies 4500 epoxy primer. When that was well cured I seam sealed every nook and cranny with 3M’s seam sealer before Spies 5310 build primer was applied. I have no issues of any paint separation, blistering, or paint contamination. Plan to go with 040 Spies base/clear for the final finish on the entire car.

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Gundy
07-01-2013, 01:29 PM
My car was sand blasting then 80 grit sanded, then body soldered. I sealed all the seams to my car with POR-15. After the POR-15 cured I scuffed the POR-15, with 180 grit sand paper. Then I primed the entire car in Spies 4500 epoxy primer. When that was well cured I seam sealed every nook and cranny with 3M’s seam sealer before Spies 5310 build primer was applied. I have no issues of any paint separation, blistering, or paint contamination. Plan to go with 040 Spies base/clear for the final finish on the entire car.

27932

27930

It'll be a momentous day when Mimi's trailer next leaves Point-o-View.
That will be the day BlueMax's uber Sprite goes to paint.
BlueMax has a good bit of labor and history in that Mk1.
Paint is tough to do. Artsy work. I leave it to a professional.
You guys who paint are brave.

Jim_Gruber
07-01-2013, 01:43 PM
Well and members of the "We Tight" Club.

62Migit
07-08-2013, 03:32 PM
I spent ~$200 on paint (not counting tools) for my Midget and I'm quite happy.

I wanted a modern urethane paint job for the protection/preservation of the car (I'm not headed to any car shows), so I got some decent paint and painted in my garage. I picked up a cheap Central Pneumatic HVLP spray gun (a kit that came with small and large guns) at Harbor Freight. Use a cheap air/water separater downstream of your air compressor; the air coming out of the compressor is very humid and you don't want water in the paint. The paint I used was a urethane system (base and clear coats) made by Kirker, ordered/shipped over the internet. About 6 years ago I got enough to make 1 gallon of epoxy primer, 1 gallon of high build (sandable) primer, 1 gallon of paint and 1 gallon of clear coat for ~$200. It looks like their kits are still available today for less than $300. I painted everything (inside and out) minus the underbody and probably only used a half gallon of each. From what I read, it was important to keep all layers of paint from the same manufacturer so they didn't have bad chemical interactions. I think you can choose hardeners which are tailored to specific temperatures, so if it's a hot summer you can still get it done. And the paint is made for professionals; the hardening and recoat times are much faster than I can mix paint (15min?), so if you weren't sanding you could do it all in the same day. Urethane paint has bad organic compounds and requires specific masks or a fresh air system to keep you healthy. As for painting in your garage, you are likely to get some dust (and in my case, an eyelash) in the paint. There are tricks to limit these imperfections: wear a paint suit to keep hair and sweat away from the car, start with a clean garage, use a hose to lightly mist the entire garage to keep dust from getting airborne. Keep air circulating so that your water heater or furnace doesn't ignite the solvent cloud. With the HVLP, there was zero overspray except for the tarp directly beneath the car on the garage floor; any other airborne paint particle will dry and harden before it adheres to anything. Also, I was very scared of drips and I ended up putting the clear coat on a little thin in places and it looks like orange peel. I plan to buff it out with a rubbing compound and cutting pad. Unlike many of my restoration challenges, I enjoyed painting it myself and would do it again. :-) It is not a professional job, but I'm very surprised at the quality and it is protected for decades to come.

Mark

Trevor Jessie
07-08-2013, 04:17 PM
This place is local https://www.smartshoppersinc.com/ to me. I'm considering using the Kirker line for the "free midget" I'm working on.

64rocksprite
07-09-2013, 04:18 PM
Trevor,
I used Eastwood (rumored to be re-labeled Kirker) on my Sprite. The guy to shot the final coat has been using DuPont and the like for years..He was skeptical when I dropped it off, but he was impressed with how the paint sprayed and he was impressed with it.
I have wet sanded a bit (dust, etc) and it looks good after polish.
The one unknown..how long does it last with UV exposure..Maybe I should have cleared it, but I like the non-cleared look better, seems more original to me.

tomshobby
07-18-2013, 09:11 PM
I am finally painting. Started today with the inside of the boot and bonnet and the edges around them on the body. Using Eastwood 2-part urethane base and clear. For the gun I am using their new HVLP Concourse gun, 4cfm at 10psi at the gun. Very little over spray as you can see on the paper.
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Trevor Jessie
07-18-2013, 10:48 PM
Tom, 1.2 mm for base and clear?

tomshobby
07-19-2013, 09:19 AM
Hi Trevor, I used a 1.4 mm for both. I held the gun about 5-6 inches off the surface and had no fish-eyes and no orange peal. Next will be the door jambs then a high fill primer which will get a final block sanding then the exterior will finally be painted. This car has been on jack-stands since before our visit 2 years ago. Maybe drive it down for a visit some day.
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