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Jim_Gruber
05-29-2013, 01:59 PM
Started working on cleaning out fender beading on Bugsy II's Bonnet last night. Fender beading had been removed by P.O. and beading on rear has been faired in already and brazed over. Rear will be left as is. Looks good and not going to mess with it. Only put in about 30-40 minutes so far but managed to get PS gap almost complete. Lots of careful grinding with small Dremel Wheels in the slot. Challeging to get consistent 1'4" gaps. Going to be a challenge to continue to keep gap straight, deep enough, and not cut into fender or bonnet. So far so good. Used up 3 1/2 of the heavy duty cutting wheels so far. Tried using thin cutting wheel on Angle Grinder but too little control available. Decided slow and patience was the best way to go about it.

Lot's of rust coming out of slot as well. Typically able to get a gap cut on one side of fender bead or another. Not easy to grind out exactly in the center of the gap. So concern is I may be able to clean up one side of gap but remains of T are rusted solid against the other side of the gap. Any ideas on technique on those who have gone down this road before.

Plan is to obtain new fender beading, trim bottom of T shape to 1/4" deep and glue into the slot using panel adhesive. Treat with Rust Converter from both Top and Bottom to try and slow down rust from reappearing in bonnet gaps.

mightymidget
05-29-2013, 09:36 PM
I believe you have chosen a good plan. find a leather or wood mallet to set bead.
don't know if you have used the panel adhesive before (I have the gun needed) but is neat product.
don't worry about applying to much, it wipes like chaulk and when it dries it can be shaped

Jim_Gruber
05-30-2013, 09:26 AM
I do not have the special gun. I see 3M has changed some of their packaging so the $90 special gun is not needed. They created a larger version of one of those 5 minute epoxy tubes. I also saw how you can modify a standard caulking gun to make it work with the dual tube system. I need to ask a quesiton about the panel adhesive. My '59 bonnet was damaged/likely rusted in the lower valence area and 28 years ago the body shop that worked on Bugsy II cut off the front of the '59 bonnet and overlapped by about 2" over the top of the nose above the grille, above the normal seam line between the lower valance and the fenders, etc. and tack welded it in place on the top and the bottom. The did some pretty substantial welds and ground them off but area was never finish welded. Area was coated with Green Aircraft Preservation Primer which I'm hoping is weld through primer as well. Again work was done well but my plan was to finish weld all of the way across and grind off. Others have cautioned about warping metal doing the finish welding and winding up with a totally trashed bonnet. I'll post some pics when I get a chance. Can't do it from work today, but I was wondering about the possibility of using seam sealer in place of finish welding. Is this practical or a better way to go than doing a load of finish welding.

I am planning on forward tilting the bonnet. Since seams are already tack welded in place I don't think practical to cut all the welds and reassemble with panel adhesive. But I may need to add additional structure the way Trevor did with his early '58 bonnet so I can forward tilt. We're talking a pretty major weld every three inches or so and then ground down. Thinking I need Seam sealer/paqnel adhesive of some sort both on the top and underneath where the panels meet and overlap to try and keep water and rust from getting in there. Thoughts from those who've ever done this before?

xkejoe
05-30-2013, 12:19 PM
I plan on doing beading the same way as you, and hoping the glue will slow down any re-rusting. It has been my experience that any panel replacement should have a completely welded seam. Do small welds and move around the seam so it doesn't overheat and warp. Yeah, it takes forever on a long seam, and grinding the welds should be done the same way. Welding tends to shrink the metal so hammer and dolly directly on the weld.

Jim_Gruber
05-30-2013, 01:09 PM
That was my plan but there was always hope that finish welding would not be needed and there was some other way. Other than Fender beads and doing finish welding bonnet is in pretty good shape other than some surface rust which a flapper wheel will quickly address.

mightymidget
06-01-2013, 10:20 PM
the 3m panel adhesive is thr replacement process for welding, not that I would do any frame work with the product. panel adhesive is proven just as strong, faster, and qicker. the biggest plus is NO WARPING. you would be surprise to see how much glues are used in manufacture and repair of vehicles.

reframe from using the word sealer with this product. it is an adhesive. I only paid around 50 bucks for my gun, works very well

Jim_Gruber
06-02-2013, 11:21 AM
Thanks for the response on the panel adhesive. Here are some pics of method that was used to graft on the '58 bonnet. Appears that this was through welded as I can see weld marks that penetrated to the bottom of the bonnet when viewed from underneath. This thing is even more solid than I thought. No room to add any type of seam sealer under there as for the most part metal to metal all of the way around. You can see in pics from underneath the 2" panel over lap and the way panel extends as far forward underneath as possible until the bonnet makes a downward curve towards the grille. This one was done by a pretty good craftsman. Do I need to finish weld or can I go right to some glass reinforced bondo. 27504

Here is a shot from underneath, above the grill area. You can see how closely the metal was trimmed and fitted as well as the drilled and penetrating welds from above. Probably done with a spot welder.

27505This one takes a little while to open but you can see the detail from the underside. Team I need some recommendations. Finish welding or is there something else I can do here. Based on spot welds every few inches this grafted on piece is plenty strong.

Trevor Jessie
06-02-2013, 01:59 PM
I do not think I'd leave that lap joint. There is rust in there that will creep out and pop off the filler and paint.

If it is all lined up perfect, then I would cut through both sections with an air saw. (Doing one 12" cut at a time) Then butt weld the panels by stitch welding. Use 1/16" filler rod to lay in the gap so you do not need to create a big puddle. By doing one section at a time everything stays lined up and there is no hidden rust between panels.

Jim_Gruber
06-02-2013, 02:14 PM
Trevor,

The joint was painted with Green - Aircraft Preservation Primer. Not sure if a weld through primer but no rust can be seen on the exposed surface period. Sanded down to bare metal on both sides and then welded. Lots of surface rust where none of the Green - Aircraft Primer was applied where paint was stripped off and underneath where bare metal was sanded down but not where the Green Paint was applied. Can you define what you mean by a 1/16 filler rod. Talking welding rod?

Jim_Gruber
06-02-2013, 02:21 PM
Trevor, I do have a neighbor with a huge TIG Welder that I could roll Bugsy down the street, hmmm, going down driveway with no brakes at this point definitely an issue but I can put the bonnet in the utility trailer. Hmm, that's the ticket. The only problem is my Father In Law, who has been doing Commercial Welding for 65 years. Yes he is still working building Aircraft Landing Gear for Alaskan Bush Pilots in his shop out back at age 90. He tells me any type of dirt, paint, garbage on the metal will keep TIG Weld from holding. He's 2 hours away and it means lots of gas with Suburban and Utility Trailer to haul down there and back. Tell me more about technique with a TIG filler rod.

Trevor Jessie
06-02-2013, 03:11 PM
No need for a TIG welder here. Just lay the rod in the gap then use a MIG to tack in the middle then tack 1/2 out from that on each side, then tack at the ends. Then stitch weld like normal.

Jim_Gruber
06-02-2013, 08:30 PM
Got it. Now to find a 1/16" rod. If nothing else, I may not be able to weld well but I sure know how to grind. Thanks.

Trevor Jessie
06-02-2013, 10:38 PM
Another trick is to take a length MIG wire and fold it in half. Then clamp one end in the vise, and the other in the drill. Twist it up and it gives you the extra bit of steel to lay in that gap before welding.

Jim_Gruber
06-03-2013, 08:42 AM
Trevor,

Another useful idea. Thanks. I'll get this bonnet welded up yet.