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SteveBones
11-02-2012, 10:08 AM
OK, on to the next and hopefully last issue before I can finally take the TR3A for a drive.

The problem is with the clutch. The car has not been running for 10 plus years. I replaced and rebuilt all the clutch hydraulic items recently, and also adjusted the slave cylinder pushrod per the manual.

Even though I can feel and verified movement at the slave cylinder when pressing in the clutch pedal, the car will not go into gear when the engine is running. I can shift into all gears when the engine is not running. It is an original gearbox. With the engine running and the clutch pedal all the way engaged, first gear will grind, and 2nd or 3rd will just not go in.

Any suggestions on how to resolve this? I do know and have taken the transmission out of a TR in the past to replace the clutch. I am prepared to do this if needed. I am hopeful that there is an alternative.

Thanks in advance for your help on this. I will be able to start working on this on Sunday.

Steve

JerryVV
11-02-2012, 10:56 AM
Here is how I have done it in the past.
Put it in reverse and press the clutch in.
Foot on brakes, hit the starter. They have always broken loose for me doing this. It may take a few trys
Hope this helps.

SteveBones
11-02-2012, 11:04 AM
Thanks. I will try it out later this weekend.


Here is how I have done it in the past.
Put it in reverse and press the clutch in.
Foot on brakes, hit the starter. They have always broken loose for me doing this. It may take a few trys
Hope this helps.

titanic
11-02-2012, 02:59 PM
Being a TR6 guy, when I read the original post I was thinking along the lines of air in the hydaulics, wear in the very clevis pins,worn engine thrust washers, and even the dreaded broken broken clutch fork pin. But since it is a TR3 that has been in storage for 10 years, if there is 1/2"-5/8" movement at the slave cyl. and there is no evidence of the the clutch fork moving on the shaft, it is probably the clutch disc stuck to the flywheel. Sometimes the techniques described above works, sometimes it is necessary to remove the gearbox&clutch and watch the plate literally fall off. Good luck.
Berry

Geo Hahn
11-02-2012, 07:01 PM
There are successive steps that can be taken if indeed the clutch disk is rusted/frozen in place.

I can't recall any of the other gentler ones but if the 'bump the starter' mentioned above doesn't get it then you might try jacking up the rear of the car, starting the engine in gear, have some empty driveway in front of you, push in the clutch pedal & whilst you rev the engine have someone release the jack. Sounds extreme but that was what finally got mine loose.

Check twice to be sure you have selected a forward gear.

macilona
11-02-2012, 07:04 PM
Steve---i am not a mechanic and don't have hands on experience with the problems described above. however, i had similar symptoms, so offering this as a suggestion to investigate. the pushrod that comes out of the slave cylinder connects to a lever that comes down off the shaft that goes through the housing and moves the release bearing. the lever has 3 holes----initially my pushrod was in the lowest hole, and i had similar issues with clutch disengagement. we moved it to the center hole, which provides a bit longer movement for the release bearing, pulling the clutch farther out. the feel of the clutch pedal is a slightly firmer, but very acceptable. if your pushrod is in the bottom hole, that could be the issue. this is an easy adjustment, so you might give it a try before tearing things apart.

sail
11-02-2012, 08:21 PM
Mine was stuck sitting 15+ years. After going thru hydraulics took off in gear down the street and lurched the car a couple times. Loose. Just have a drive plan back home if you are not successful.

TR3driver
11-02-2012, 08:33 PM
I'll vote for the "driving the car with the pedal held down" approach. The heat and vibration should shake it loose in a hurry. In my case, I didn't even get out of the driveway (less than 15' or so) before it came loose.

And driving without a clutch is one of those essential skills that every LBC owner should know, IMO. It has gotten me home more than once, and not always in an LBC. My Chevy also had a tendency to snap the clutch cable without warning.

DanB
11-04-2012, 01:06 PM
Steve,
If you can verify the movement, which you said you can, and you can feel the pressure plate, then it must indeed be rusted together as stated above. Using the methods mentioned should work. We recently had an MG owner in our club who went through this and was able to break it loose. Personally, when it happened to my TR4A, I removed the transmission and checked everything out, but I was young and still learning, and didn't know what was involved. If it happened now, I would do as Randall suggested and drive without the clutch. (once when my clutch fork pin broke I drove all the way from Mid-Ohio to Charleston, WV without the clutch--it's not hard)

Dan B

Marvin Gruber
11-04-2012, 01:43 PM
I second the above statements " drive with the clutch pedal pushed in". I've had several TR's that I've had to do that to over the years. After I've got the car going I hit the gas to make the car lurch, usually after the second or third time the clutch breaks loose. I had an XKE that took about 20 minutes to break loose but after that never a problem again.

Marv

CJD
11-04-2012, 01:50 PM
Boy I hope it doesn't come loose to easy, Steve...I've been in withdrawal since the end of the "no start" thread!!!

John

SteveBones
11-04-2012, 02:18 PM
It worked! Took the car for it's first drive in likely 12 years. Took me 1.5 years to get to this point.

So, I started the car in gear, and the clutch popped right away. Pulled the clutch in to verify, and took off for a ride. This car is actually driving really nice. I figured I will have to do some "adjusting" of at least with the carbs.

So there is one issue. The generator light stayed on. I would like to either have this generator rebuilt or purchase a replacement of the original. Any suggestions on where to go would be much appreciated. I live out in the San Jose Bay Area in California so if there is a place that is close by, this would be preferred.

The weather is really nice today. I am going to get back in the TR and go for a drive!

Thanks again. Can't say enough on how much time and aggravation was avoided because of all the helpful advice!

Steve

TR4nut
11-04-2012, 03:43 PM
You might need to 'flash the field' again to bring the generator back to life. I've done it a couple of times, but unfortunately I've not done it enough to say what to do by memory. Check your manual or probably someone else will chime in on the how-to.

bobhustead
11-04-2012, 04:37 PM
The manuals call it polarizing the gen.
Bob Hustead

TR3driver
11-04-2012, 06:22 PM
You might need to 'flash the field' again to bring the generator back to life. I've done it a couple of times, but unfortunately I've not done it enough to say what to do by memory. Check your manual or probably someone else will chime in on the how-to.

There are several ways; if your car is later with the "Lucar" quick connects at the control box, then the easiest method is likely to pull off the wire on the 'F' terminal and brush the end against the 'A' or 'A1' terminal. You can expect some small sparks, but nothing major. Then put it back on 'F' and start the engine to see if it helped.

If not, then some light troubleshooting is called for, to make sure whether the problem is the generator or the control box. Actually, I would probably clean the voltage regulator contacts (inside the control box, the ones with the screw and locknut to adjust the gap) first, just because it's been sitting so long.

Note that it is possible for both control box and generator to be bad; in particular if the control box does not limit the output current, the generator will burn itself up. There was a time, long ago, where all of my disposable income was going into rebuilt generators, before I learned that lesson!

Because of the way it regulates the sum of current and voltage (instead of having a separate relay for each), it is also possible for a bad battery to cause the generator to overheat and fail. If you see over 20 amps of charge on the ammeter for more than just a minute or so after starting, it would be good to investigate.

SteveBones
11-04-2012, 06:30 PM
Thanks for the suggestions regarding the generator. I recall the how to polarize section in the manual and will check it out. There are times where the red light goes out and the amp meter moves to positive. I think it is a wiring connection issue. I will check it out.

I do have a fuel starvation issue. I can run the car for 5 minutes driving around town before it dies. By pumping the fuel pump primer lever 4 or 5 times, the engine restarts and drives great for another 5 minutes.

I did rebuild the carbs. Is the fuel issue possibly due to the float needle not being adjusted correctly? Any potential other carburetor issue that might be the potential cause? I did purchase a new fuel pump from Moss that is very close to the original. The PO had an aftermarket electric fuel pump. I wanted to switch back to the original set up.

Thanks,

Steve

SteveBones
11-04-2012, 06:37 PM
Randall - Great suggestions regarding the generator debug. I will check it out.

The battery is new. I was not really paying attention to the amp meter to see if there was a potential over charge issue tied to the control box. I will check this out so to prevent having to go thru the multiple generator replacement scenario.

I can not believe how much fun the TR3A is to drive!

Thanks,

Steve




You might need to 'flash the field' again to bring the generator back to life. I've done it a couple of times, but unfortunately I've not done it enough to say what to do by memory. Check your manual or probably someone else will chime in on the how-to.

There are several ways; if your car is later with the "Lucar" quick connects at the control box, then the easiest method is likely to pull off the wire on the 'F' terminal and brush the end against the 'A' or 'A1' terminal. You can expect some small sparks, but nothing major. Then put it back on 'F' and start the engine to see if it helped.

If not, then some light troubleshooting is called for, to make sure whether the problem is the generator or the control box. Actually, I would probably clean the voltage regulator contacts (inside the control box, the ones with the screw and locknut to adjust the gap) first, just because it's been sitting so long.

Note that it is possible for both control box and generator to be bad; in particular if the control box does not limit the output current, the generator will burn itself up. There was a time, long ago, where all of my disposable income was going into rebuilt generators, before I learned that lesson!

Because of the way it regulates the sum of current and voltage (instead of having a separate relay for each), it is also possible for a bad battery to cause the generator to overheat and fail. If you see over 20 amps of charge on the ammeter for more than just a minute or so after starting, it would be good to investigate.

TR3driver
11-04-2012, 07:23 PM
I did rebuild the carbs. Is the fuel issue possibly due to the float needle not being adjusted correctly? Any potential other carburetor issue that might be the potential cause? I did purchase a new fuel pump from Moss that is very close to the original. The PO had an aftermarket electric fuel pump. I wanted to switch back to the original set up.

Not likely, IMO. Instead I would be looking at anything that keeps fuel from flowing into the pump, like perhaps a blocked vent at the tank or something inside the tank that can block the outlet. If you have the shutoff valve near the pump, make sure it is fully open.

If the tank is nearly empty, a leak at the sediment bowl can let the pump suck air and cause similar problems.

SteveBones
11-04-2012, 08:47 PM
The suggestion on where to focus, not with the carbs but prior to the fuel pump, makes sense. I did make sure there was gas. I added a couple of gallons without any change.

Thanks,

Steve




I did rebuild the carbs. Is the fuel issue possibly due to the float needle not being adjusted correctly? Any potential other carburetor issue that might be the potential cause? I did purchase a new fuel pump from Moss that is very close to the original. The PO had an aftermarket electric fuel pump. I wanted to switch back to the original set up.

Not likely, IMO. Instead I would be looking at anything that keeps fuel from flowing into the pump, like perhaps a blocked vent at the tank or something inside the tank that can block the outlet. If you have the shutoff valve near the pump, make sure it is fully open.

If the tank is nearly empty, a leak at the sediment bowl can let the pump suck air and cause similar problems.

CJD
11-05-2012, 09:49 AM
And, or course you have probably already checked, but don't forget the fuel filter. After a long sit it may take a few checks till all the junk clears out of the lines.

And congrats!

John

SteveBones
11-05-2012, 11:08 AM
John,

Good point. I did have some of items at the bottom of the fuel pump float bowl a couple of weeks back when trying to get the car started. I will check it out.

Steve


And, or course you have probably already checked, but don't forget the fuel filter. After a long sit it may take a few checks till all the junk clears out of the lines.

And congrats!

John