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TRMark
08-20-2012, 06:35 PM
Front brake pads are getting thin on my 63 TR4. I am seeing semi metallic, ceramic and green stuff available. I have some VTO wheels from Hap on the car I would like to keep them clean. I have heard semi metallic creates dust. The car is used for touring. Other ideas? Suggestions?

3798j
08-20-2012, 07:11 PM
Here's a strong recommendation for Centric Posi-Quiet Ceramic Pads. Extremely low dust (and what little dust there is, it's not black and doesn't stick). No squeaks. No special "bedding in" procedure - just use them. For the TR4 they're $16.45 at rockauto.com. I also have installed them on my newer vehicles and with them I sing the same praises.

RJS
08-21-2012, 06:16 AM
Completely agree. Ceramics nearly dust free, which is very nice on wire wheels. Performance is no better, no worse. And no noise.

Bob

TR4nut
08-21-2012, 06:59 AM
And if you want clean wheels, don't go with Green Stuff pads - very dirty experience.

sd80mac7204
08-21-2012, 09:24 AM
I use Raybestos pads on my spit and have really liked them.

poolboy
08-21-2012, 12:29 PM
Here's a strong recommendation for Centric Posi-Quiet Ceramic Pads. Extremely low dust (and what little dust there is, it's not black and doesn't stick). No squeaks. No special "bedding in" procedure - just use them. For the TR4 they're $16.45 at rockauto.com. I also have installed them on my newer vehicles and with them I sing the same praises.
Thanks for that information..I like what I read about them.

SkinnedKnuckles
08-21-2012, 12:52 PM
I will be trying the ceramic style pads next time - I've heard alot of good things about them. I don't recall them being around when I bought the "green Stuff" ones currently installed. The green stuff are dusty... but they are hardly worn and were too expensive for me just to toss.

TRMark
08-22-2012, 11:45 AM
Thanks for your help guys. I'm going to check out the ceramic pads.

70herald
08-22-2012, 02:40 PM
The one thing I don't see anyone addressing is brake performance. Good pads probably make more difference then any other change you can make in the braking system.
I just ordered a set of mintex 1144 pads since the current cheapies on the Herald just don't grab enough. I got allot of recommendations for the mintex pad which are rather more expensive than what has been discussed here but I want the braking to be more confidence inspiring than it currently is.

martx-5
08-23-2012, 07:03 AM
The one thing I don't see anyone addressing is brake performance. Good pads probably make more difference then any other change you can make in the braking system.


:iagree: Good point. I had my Miata in for an inspection a few years back, and they called me and said I needed new brake pads up front. Usually I do this work myself, but I told them to go ahead since the inspection was already overdue. It was Friday evening when I picked up the car, and the pads they put on wouldn't stop the car for beans. The next morning, I went to the Mazda dealer and bought a set of pads and stuck 'em on...world of difference. I brought the other pads back to the shop and the owner asked why I didn't bring the car back to him. Well, it was late Friday and I needed the car for the weekend. Anyway, he knows that there are some cars that have to use OE pads to work properly. He brought me back into where he keeps parts and showed me many sets of OE pads that he keeps. He took his pads back and wrote me a check for what I paid for the OE pads (which was more then then his pads), plus what he charged for the labor of putting in the pads...one of the reasons I go to this guy.

Anyway, I'm sure you see how brake dust accumulates on so many cars these days. The aluminum wheels that are so prevalent show it off very well. If OE manufacturers could find a way to eliminate the ugly dust, they would. But, braking performance has to take a front seat here, and I rather deal with the dust then lousy braking.

3798j
08-23-2012, 11:30 AM
....I have some VTO wheels from Hap on the car I would like to keep them clean.....The car is used for touring....Suggestions?
When Mark posed his question, the above criteria stood out to me as a reason for my response, but it didn't preclude good stopping ability.
If his use was for racing I wouldn't of made my suggestions - but that would have been based solely on fade resistance (there are better compounds than ceramic for that), not stopping ability.
There are a number of manufacturers that use ceramic as the material in their OEM pads (Infiniti and Ford are two examples).
While all pads dust as they wear, some organic/metallic compounds are simply horrible in the dirty corrosive filth they create. To suggest this excessive dirt is necessary for good stopping just isn't the case.
I've installed those Centric Posi-Quiet Ceramics on this vehicle and while my driving doesn't often exceed "spirited", this thing stops incredibly well with them (as does my TR4A).

https://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr268/3798j/Z4%20Coupe/IMGP0192.jpg

TRMark
08-23-2012, 02:05 PM
The many different options and price range from $17 to $104 is a bit confusing. Not dusting is one criteria but not the only one, I don't need racing quality pads but I do want good ones. Price is not all that important to me, I've owned the car for over 40years, so I don't mind spending money. I can't remember the last time and what kind of pads I put on the car, so I have to do my research. I really appreciate the help from the forum members.

TR3driver
08-23-2012, 02:42 PM
I'll throw in a plug for the 'Kevlar' relined pads that Ted Schumacher sells. They seem to generate minimal dust (at the moment, my front wheels look cleaner than the rears) and offer excellent stopping both cold and hot. They also appear to be fairly kind to rotors, while I've heard that some ceramic pads tend to wear out rotors in a hurry.

The organic pads I had before that were junk. Very poor stopping power cold, seemed like you had to wait for the pads to warm up to get the car stopped!

Seems like I paid Ted $50 for the set of linings on my cores, but that was probably 10 years ago so they may have gone up. He saved me some shipping costs by bringing them to a show with him.

70herald
08-23-2012, 03:00 PM
I don't need racing quality pads but I do want good ones. Price is not all that important to me, I've owned the car for over 40years, so I don't mind spending money.

"Racing quality" would probably be the worst thing you could do. The problem is that different brake compositions work well at different temperatures, and "racing" pads want to be HOT for them to have good braking ability.

"regular" pad will wear loose friction, and wear very quickly if they get excessively hot.

So for a normally used street car, you need good friction at low temperatures and they should have reasonable ability to withstand higher temps.

For race vehicles it all depends on what kind of track, Turn left Nascar probably doesn't need brakes. F1 on a road course is going to need brakes which can withstand very high temperatures but need to be "warmed up" before they will give good braking power.

The problem for most of us is that other than "high end" brake pads there is very little information available for most pad regarding their friction coefficient vs. temperature, or temperature ratings.

I brought up the whole issue of performance because I really don't like the braking performance on my herald. The brakes are in perfect mechanical shape (fully rebuilt and gone over with a fine tooth comb) but the cheapy pads don't have any bite. I have Mintex 1144 pads on order and hopefully next week I will be able to install them.

RJS
08-24-2012, 06:33 AM
Re ceramic performance, my fisry experience was when my local shop installed Akebono ceramics on my E36 M3 BMW. While I did not do measured testing, by the feel of my foot they were no better, no worse than stock. But, zero dust is what caught my eye. So, one year later I de ided to try the Moss ceramic pads on the TR4A. Same (good) results. And with wire wheels, no dust is great.

Bob

3798j
08-24-2012, 04:48 PM
...my E36 M3 BMW. Bob

Bob - Very cool. The E36 M3 was considered as one of the best combinations of acceleration, handling, and stopping capabilities in a vehicle that was available for purchase by the public in the decade of the 1990's.

RJS
08-25-2012, 06:12 AM
Thanks Jay,

I never understood the mystique behind BMW's until I drove this car. The steering was telepathic. Amazing car I drove for 6 years and, coincidentally, sold it exactly one year ago this weekend. If you can find a good one, I would say there is no better value on the road when it comes to performance for the money. I had a Dinan S2 kit in there and about 270 HP.

Bob
PS: very nice Z4