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machinemd
02-27-2005, 02:51 AM
Hey Guys,
Though usually a quiet reader, once again I'm stumped and got to ask the wisdom of the experienced minds. I've got a 74 TR6 and for the past week off and on I've been trying without luck to pull the cylinder head.In the fall it got a bit of oil seepage along the length of the drivers side. So I figured I'd take the opportunity to pull the head and get some work done on it. Well I've tried placing a 2x4 under the ports and with a floor jack popping it. Lifted the engine and the passenger front 2" off the floor but no go. I added a 5 ton jack between the motor mount and head and still no. Tried the rope trick but only got the other rear wheel to spin a bit on the wedge. Ran PB Blaster down each head stud every nite and as it did from the first day, it just sucks right in. Of course next I'm gonna remove the studs but the way it's holding.... Can't get a firm scraper between the block and head. Any other tricks? A little ether in each cylinder and spark it? I'm getting desperate here! It makes sense that if it was leaking on the drivers side it should be the side to try jacking up but I just have trouble seeing a clear path and something to push on. What be the thoughts?
Thanks, Steve /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Rabid_Dolphin
02-27-2005, 03:38 AM
Maybe you just don't have enough rope in the cylinders? I used every bit of 50ft 3/16in rope when we popped mine off.

machinemd
02-27-2005, 04:14 AM
I only put about 6' x 1/4" in cylinders #1 & #6. Turning one back wheel it was enough to lock the engine solid. I used a length of pipe to get some extra leverage on the wheel and without a great deal of pull could hear the other rear wheel starting to spin on the wedge.

vrod
02-27-2005, 07:56 AM
pick up a good cylinder head stud extraction tool and remove the studs from the block. Your experiencing a hydraulic lock caused by oil around the studs. This happens to me every time I pull the head off my tr250. After the studs are removed you will be amazed how easy the head lifts off.

WhatsThatNoise
02-27-2005, 12:36 PM
Take the headbolts out, spray a generous amount of ether into the carbs & start-er-up!


p.s. DON'T ACTUALLY DO THIS /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

machinemd
02-27-2005, 03:15 PM
For the same effect, but better visuals I have considered black powder except with the smoke I'm not sure that I'll be able to locate and catch the head.

piman
02-27-2005, 03:49 PM
Hello all,
I wouldn't disagree about removing the studs but not with a stud puller, as you are gripping on the threads. Two nuts, maybe if you are lucky, but there is not a lot of stud length available.
I must assume that the rocker assembly has been removed?, and what I do in a similar situation is to drive a large flat screwdriver between the head and the block, (I know it sounds brutal but iron head\iron block does not suffer from this seemingly brutal method.) Once you get some movement it will come off.

Vrod "Your experiencing a hydraulic lock caused by oil around the studs" ???? That's a new one on me, perhaps you could explain?

Alec

martx-5
02-27-2005, 04:58 PM
The problem with an inline six and studs is that if the head is not lifted perfectly square with the studs and cocks the least bit, it will jam up. Removing some of the studs will help alleviate the problem if you can't remove all of them. And yes, using piman's brutal approach has worked for me in the past. If you do pry between the head and the block, work your way around both sides to try and get it to come up straight. And put away the hydraulic equipment before you bust something. This is a finesse job.

machinemd
02-27-2005, 06:59 PM
Point taken and I agree about the stud puller and the hydraulics. I've been dealing with industrial machinery for 25 years and am a precision technician not a gorilla mechanic. Because my local industrial supply house was closed yesterday, I only had the local supermarket home centers to hunt down 7/16" fine thread jam nuts and of course forget about it. I was able to get a couple of nuts tho, only grade 5, and I ground them down a bit to make em less tall but able to use the complete exposed thread of the studs. In the cold unheated garage I did remove 5 quite easily but 2 wouldn't budge. So i wizzled more PB Blaster down em and am about to give em another go and test the rest. I did try a good stiff sharpened putty knife w/o luck. And I only applied a hair of pressure with the 5 ton jack. When I saw the motor mount stretch a hair I stopped.

Rabid_Dolphin
02-27-2005, 07:43 PM
Your rope trick may need a little more umph. I used the starter. That thing came OFF =)

LastDeadLast
02-27-2005, 08:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Your rope trick may need a little more umph. I used the starter. That thing came OFF =)

[/ QUOTE ]

Same here, About 5 feet of rope in the number 1 and 6 cylinders, then turn the starter....POOF!!! right off. Err... just make sure you take the rocker shaft off first.

machinemd
02-27-2005, 09:17 PM
The score is 11 head studs out and 3 to go - found one pinned by manifold stud. Of course the three are manifold side, open to the elements. For now, more PB Blaster. I've read a number of times to jack and spin a rear wheel, but I like the starter idea better. No stressing the diff & tranny gears. Any other ideas now knowing three studs are married....Kinda sounds like a bad joke but....

machinemd
03-04-2005, 07:25 PM
GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY, FREE AT LAST! TURNS OUT THAT THE 3 STUCK STUDS DID HAVE ABOUT 3/4" HEAVY RUST RING DOWN AT THE BLOCK. ONE JACK FROM THE FLOOR AND ONE FROM THE MOTOR MOUNT, BOTH GIVING A LITTLE UPWARD PRESSURE ON THE HEAD,
AND THEN 2 SCREWDRIVERS ON THE PLUG SIDE, AND THEN MY BIG OLD PERSUADER - A SNAP-ON 18" PRYBAR THAT LOOKS LIKE A CROWBAR BUT WITH A HANDLE AND I WORKED MY WAY AROUND WHILE HITTING AT THE STUDS WITH MY BIG OLD BRASS HAMMER DID
IT. CAN SEE NO DAMAGE TO THE HEAD AS A RESULT. AND NOW ON TO OTHER ISSUES LIKE DROPPING IT OFF AT THE MACHINE SHOP, GETTING MY LEAKING BRAKE BOOSTER REBUILT, AND REBUSHING THE STEERING COLUMN, A NEW CAM. MY ONLY PROBLEM IS THAT I TEND TO EXHAUST ALL FORMS OF FINESSE BEFORE GOING FOR BRUTE FORCE, BUT THIS IS ONE CASE WHERE IT WAS BADLY NEEDED.
STEVE

martx-5
03-04-2005, 08:32 PM
We're glad to see you got the sucker off! Sometimes just hearing from the folks on the forum that have gone through this stuff is enough to keep you focused on the job at hand. It's enough incentive to keep at it, and a great place to relate future horror stories to others that will eventually go through what you just went through.

Geo Hahn
03-04-2005, 09:01 PM
Congrats & thanks for the follow-up.

I am pulling the head off the '3 in April -- inspired by your story I have begun daily squirts of PB Blaster on the manifold studs, temp sender & exposed head studs.

machinemd
03-05-2005, 12:11 AM
And thanks to you folks for reminding me that I was dealing with a cast iron head that can take a little more force, rather than the aluminum heads that I have gotten so used to. And to a local guy, Jay Welch, for his encouragement and advice through this. **** it was frustrating! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

vrod
03-05-2005, 01:16 AM
Glad to see you pulled it off. My two experiences required me pulling the studs out, the first time while hooked up with a chain to the head with my fork truck lifting the front end of the car off the ground wasn't enough force, but just as soon as I pulled the studs, off it came easy as pie.

Mark_Gibson
03-05-2005, 08:15 PM
A bit of vaseline on those steering column bushings and a socket with a diameter just slightly smaller than the steering column with an extension attached does the trick nicely. I've seen some people grind off some of the nubs that are supposed to hold the bushing in place, bad idea and not necessary. Just be careful and don't try to hammer them in, since the nylon insets inside the bushings are fairly fragile. Good Luck,

Mark

pbraun
03-12-2005, 06:52 PM
I do not think cranking the starter motor, plugs removed, would be a bad trick. If no go, I would do the ether and let 'er rip!