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Tinkerman
04-16-2012, 04:10 PM
SO! Why is my new water pump leaking? I fixed the drain tap put it on and poured about a quart of coolent in it. No problem, so I then put a gallon of coolent in it and a gallon of water into it. About 10 minutes later I glanced at it and saw a leak. Liquid is coming out of the back of the water pump. Going to be a major repair, sigh. My question is what would cause that? Something I did, or didn't do?

Your thoughts please.

Tinkerman

TR3driver
04-16-2012, 04:21 PM
Most likely, just a bum pump. But sometimes the seal needs to seat; you could try driving the car for a bit, or using something to spin the pump and see if it stops.

Fortunately, the pump is fairly easy (if somewhat tedious) to change without removing a bunch of other stuff.

RJS
04-16-2012, 05:27 PM
I'm curious too since I will be in the market for a water pump soon. I've read you should spin them while dry for 30-60 seconds before filling to seat the seal.

Bob

Geo Hahn
04-16-2012, 05:38 PM
And (perhaps too late to be of use) I always fill the system with water the first time after major work (radiator out, hoses replaced, pump replaced, etc).

Don't have to waste or chase coolant if there is a leak and water is easier to clean up. Later, drain and fill with the preferred mix.

Scot1966
04-16-2012, 06:58 PM
I'm curious too since I will be in the market for a water pump soon. I've read you should spin them while dry for 30-60 seconds before filling to seat the seal.

Bob Glad I saw this post, as I just received my water pump from Moss a couple days ago. The TR3's ORIGINAL pump was a little noisy at the end of last year.

Tinkerman
04-17-2012, 08:39 AM
Well so much for my NOS eBay bargan water pump I bought agout 5 years ago. I imagine the seal dried out and is shot. I wish I had been smart enough to do what Geo had suggested. What a good idea. This morning after breakfast I will pull it off and see what I can see. Luckly, as Randall observed, Removing it will not be as bad as I first imagined.

Thanks for the input.Tinkerman

Moseso
04-17-2012, 11:19 AM
Sadly, that seems to be the thing with water pumps. NOS = dried out seal.
One needs a freshly rebuilt unit.
My old (original?) pump felt/sounded solid the day it was removed from the car --and didn't leak.
The day I fired it up for the first time, four years later, it threw coolant EVERYWHERE. I had to abort the cam break-in and wait for a replacement pump to arrive.

TR3driver
04-17-2012, 01:39 PM
Frequently, IMO, things are "NOS" because someone once tried it, found it was defective, and put it back on the shelf. No doubt they intended to return it or whatever, but simply forgot (or left the company, or died). Then someone else came along, bought up the old inventory, and listed it on eBay.

Some years ago, a friend bought a "NOS" alternator on eBay. It was fairly close by, so we drove down to pick it up. The seller waived at a whole rack full of old alternator boxes; but every single one I looked at showed signs of having been installed once (like a shiny spot where the mounting bolt clamps). Sure enough, the one my friend got didn't work, right out of the Lucas box. The seller gave him a refund without complaint (but I'll bet it got sold again).

The pump I got with TS13571L appeared to be original, and had certainly been unused for 25 years or so, but didn't leak. It actually worked fine, until I "borrowed" the pulley to try out a "high tech" pump that I've had on the shelf for 15+ years (one of the very first ones on the market). Evidently I didn't get the pulley mounted solidly enough when I went back to the original pump, as the shaft broke a few weeks later. Next time I'll use Loctite! (The overheating problem turned out to not be the pump at all.)

Fortunately, the replacement pump from Moss (around 1990 as I recall) off my wrecked TR3A still worked fine even after 5-6 years of inactivity. It's the type with the pulley permanently mounted (so no worries about it working loose).

JohnB
04-17-2012, 03:42 PM
FWIW, not really sure the seals actually dry out.

Had the same success as Randall with an old pump working just fine. In fact mine was unused and sans water for 38 years! No leaks so far.

CJD
04-17-2012, 06:19 PM
I took mine apart and brought the seal to a local bearing shop. They matched it (and the bearings) in a couple minutes. Everything is standard size, so any decent bearing supply will have them. So, if you have a press, the pump is easily fixed.

John

HerronScott
04-17-2012, 07:46 PM
I took mine apart and brought the seal to a local bearing shop. They matched it (and the bearings) in a couple minutes. Everything is standard size, so any decent bearing supply will have them. So, if you have a press, the pump is easily fixed.

John

John,

Have any brands and part numbers for the parts?

Scott

TR3driver
04-17-2012, 08:04 PM
I took mine apart and brought the seal to a local bearing shop. They matched it (and the bearings) in a couple minutes. Everything is standard size, so any decent bearing supply will have them. So, if you have a press, the pump is easily fixed.

Are you sure that was an original TR3 pump? A friend of mine looked into this a few years back, and found no bearing maker in the world made bearings that would fit. I don't recall the sizes offhand, but they were not either inch fractions or mm. He came up with a method that would work, but it required machining a sleeve for the housing, and a new shaft.

For awhile, you could get the kit from a Massey-Ferguson dealer, but I'm sure they are all long gone by now.

PS, found an old email from Jim Wallace, stating the bearings are 1.575"/40mm od, .628"/15.95mm id. Width of outer race is .562"/14.27mm, width of inner race .547"/13.89mm.

Original P/N Hoffmann # N3179V3, sealed one side only

Tinkerman
04-18-2012, 07:15 AM
Mornin, took the pump out yesterday and the pump looks great. I figured if the seal had failed the pump would have water in it and the water would have come out of the back of the pump in copius amounts because of the slot. It was dry. Besides that it was a static leak. By that I mean it was not running, can't run yet. I suspect either a bad gasket or the water pump housing attached to the block. Will pull that today and check it out.
More durn fun, heh!

Tinkerman

CJD
04-18-2012, 08:15 AM
Checked the receipt, but I don't think it lists the real part number on the seal. It shows EP081616 Isostatic. I can't remember if that was a brand or just a discription. I'll dig to see if I can find the bearing numbers. I have no idea if the pump was original, but the car only had 56,000 miles on it.

John

Tinkerman
04-18-2012, 12:13 PM
The story on the leaking pump is a failed water pump housing to block gasket. Truth be told it reverts back to operator error, sigh. I did not goop both sides of the gasket. Shame, Shame. Got new gaskets coming in, WILL do it right this time.
Thanks for all the info.
Tinkerman

HerronScott
04-18-2012, 07:37 PM
Checked the receipt, but I don't think it lists the real part number on the seal. It shows EP081616 Isostatic. I can't remember if that was a brand or just a discription. I'll dig to see if I can find the bearing numbers. I have no idea if the pump was original, but the car only had 56,000 miles on it.

John

John,

That seems to correspond to a bronze bearing of some type (Isostatic makes bronze bearings although the EP081616 part number seems to correspond to a bronze bearing by Bunting Bearings.

Scott

CJD
04-19-2012, 08:16 AM
John,

That seems to correspond to a bronze bearing of some type (Isostatic makes bronze bearings although the EP081616 part number seems to correspond to a bronze bearing by Bunting Bearings.

Scott

I was afraid of that. I have at least 300 reciepts for the resto, and I use the bearing supply regularly. It is likely buried or stuck in another project file forever!?!

John