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rusty55
03-25-2012, 01:38 PM
I know I'll likely be scolded for this but here it goes...
I'm connecting an iPod to the TR3. There wont be a head unit. Just an amp with an iPod plug in. The only part that will be visible will be a 4 gauge wire running from the battery, thru the firewall, to the amp. So about 12" of wire will be seen in the engine area.
He's my question....

<span style="color: #FF0000">Can I run the power from the starter solenoid where the positive battery cable attaches or do I need to go straight to the battery? </span>

Thanks

DNK
03-25-2012, 02:32 PM
Same place ,isn't it?

TR3driver
03-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Yeah, you could get power from the solenoid like that, but personally I would want to connect on the other side of the ammeter. You are evidently using a high power amplifier, and with it connected on the battery side of the ammeter, any current supplied from the generator to run the amplifier is going to read as charge on the ammeter. You could actually be running the battery down, with the ammeter reading charge!

4 AWG is really huge ... how big is this power amp? 4 AWG is good for over 100 amps ... have you given thought to where that power is going to come from? The stock generator only puts out 19 amps.

rusty55
03-25-2012, 08:43 PM
Yea, 4 gauge may be overkill.

It's finished and works great. I ended up putting a 5oow amp up behind the glove box. I grounded it to a bolt for the hood. I ran a 4 gauge wire from the amp to the battery with an inline 60 amp fuse. The amp is powered only when the ignition is on and the iPod connection cable, which also charges the iPod, hides under the dash unless it's plugged into the iPod.

There is a separate volume control on the dash where i removed the windshield washer switch that will never be used anyway.
So the only evidence of the install is about 10" of wire under the hood. looks clean and sounds great.

Hopefully I'm not draining the battery but we'll see.
thanks

Tr3aguy
03-25-2012, 08:52 PM
Where did you hide the speakers?

PeterK
03-25-2012, 09:22 PM
what?

rusty55
03-25-2012, 09:45 PM
Ipod

rusty55
03-25-2012, 09:47 PM
front speakers ( i still need to zip tie the speaker wires up a little)

rusty55
03-25-2012, 09:47 PM
rear speakers

rusty55
03-25-2012, 09:48 PM
Power from battery to amp

rusty55
03-25-2012, 09:49 PM
and finally, the volume control

TR3driver
03-25-2012, 11:56 PM
Hopefully I'm not draining the battery but we'll see.

500 watts output times 90% efficiency (which assumes a class D amplifier, class B will be much worse) means it will be drawing close to 50 amps at 12v. Likely you won't use that much though, probably more like 10 amps. So you should get by, as long as the headlights aren't on (and you don't have anything else, like an electric radiator fan).

rusty55
03-26-2012, 12:02 AM
WAIT!!!!!
Are you suggesting I wont be able to use my headlights if I'm playing music???

PeterK
03-26-2012, 07:59 AM
Depends on the amp and alternator. Stock generator is 28amps. Alternator conversion provides 50+amps depending on model you install.


I have an alternator, head unit with power amp and use an IPOD in my 3A. I'm using JBL component 6.5" separate tweeters both mounted in the rear shelf area. I think the amp is around 40 RMS. And the nature of the car, exhaust, wind, etc. it's nearly impossible to hear words; more like background music. So, just sayin' (as they say), once one the road, not only will you not hear your tunes but driving a TR, you'll want to listen to your car.

justin_mercier
03-26-2012, 09:35 AM
With my TR6 I've got a 55 amp alternator, up from the stock 35 amp, but I'm planning on upgrading to a 95amp alternator when I install seat heaters and a sound system. I'm not sure what the options are for a TR3, but I'd certainly do something to get at least in the 50 to 55 range for output.

rusty55
03-26-2012, 09:54 AM
With my TR6 I've got a 55 amp alternator, up from the stock 35 amp, but I'm planning on upgrading to a 95amp alternator when I install seat heaters and a sound system. I'm not sure what the options are for a TR3, but I'd certainly do something to get at least in the 50 to 55 range for output.

ok.... so I'll search the site, but what are my options an whats involved?

PeterK
03-26-2012, 12:49 PM
Triumph Rescue has a kit for this https://www.triumphrescue.com/index.php/stuff-for-sale/shop-tr/alternator-kits.html

Owned by the same guy that owns britishwiring.com

TR3driver
03-26-2012, 01:25 PM
Stock generator is 28amps.

Stock generator on what car? A stock TR3 generator is only 19 amps (though many have upgraded to the later 21 amp version).

You can get 28 amps from a TR3 generator, but not for long. BTDT

PS, I don't know anything about the kit from Triumph Rescue; but I would suggest asking for an advance copy of the installation instructions. I don't believe the pictured alternator will fit a TR3 gracefully, without cutting either the alternator case or permanent parts of the car (eg the bracket for RH steering). If you have to modify the case (or Triumph Rescue has already done it for you), then you will have to go back to them any time it needs service.

Also ask about how hard it is to change the belt, as the larger alternator housing keeps it from moving very far closer to the engine (to loosen the belt).

rusty55
03-26-2012, 02:14 PM
OK so i took the car to an audio place to check the install. He said it was OK.
I took it to my mechanic and he is telling me the generator is only part of the charging system and that the generator and battery together will have no problem running this system with a fan and lights. The car is not running off the generator...

So now I'm confused. How can there be two entirely different opinions on this???
I drove it, turned on everything and it all works as it should. Is it only a matter of time until it just quits?

And why is the mechanic, who works on these daily telling me it's not an issue?

I just wanta be sure the wife isn't stranded somewhere :smile:

Thanks

Darrell_Walker
03-26-2012, 03:37 PM
My guess, the audio guy isn't aware of the limited amperage generated by the stock generator, and the mechanic may not understand the potential requirements of the amp.

Sure, the battery plus the generator may run everything for a while, but if you are consistently using more current than the generator can provide, you will eventually drain the battery.

On my TR4A, with the stock generator in good condition, running with lights and demister would slowly drain the battery. It perhaps wasn't that those two accessories used more current than the generator provided, but I think there wasn't enough excess to replace the energy used by the starter.

DNK
03-26-2012, 03:38 PM
Maybe in Ca. it might work.
But here in the NW. The lights , wipers are always on

justin_mercier
03-26-2012, 03:44 PM
Amps draw a lot of power, this is the reason many people with good amps in their car have a 2nd battery, or a large capacitor in-line with the amp, both for preventing wire burnup with big bass drops that suck power, and to mitigate the 'drain' when the amp is in use. You may be fine for a week or two, but then all of a sudden the car wont start, because you'll have sucked the battery dry.

This actually happened to my TR6. I didn't know my alternator was going bad, the voltage looked fine, but my 8inch powered sub and loud stereo was draining enough that eventually i got stranded at work, and had to get jumped to get home.

PeterK
03-26-2012, 07:00 PM
Stock generator is 28amps.

Stock generator on what car? A stock TR3 generator is only 19 amps (though many have upgraded to the later 21 amp version).



You know what's funny is that my brain crossed my tractor with my TR. My brothers Kubota came with a 28amp dynamo and we just up graded it to an alternator. :lol:

But as far as the kit, I think that Matt uses a Delco (is it 12si?) 55 amp alternator, same as I have in my TR3A. A far as install and adjustment, it IS large, adjustment is OK but I have to remove the rt side horn to remove the alternator. No biggie, but it's tight.

TR3driver
03-26-2012, 08:17 PM
On my TR4A, with the stock generator in good condition, running with lights and demister would slowly drain the battery. It perhaps wasn't that those two accessories used more current than the generator provided, but I think there wasn't enough excess to replace the energy used by the starter.
On a previous TR3A, I verified that with the lights, wiper, and heater all running; plus the generator putting out its rated 19 amps; the battery would slowly discharge even driving down the highway. Total load was about 23 amps. Stop for a traffic light and of course it discharged heavily. (Brake lights drew another 4.2 amps plus of course the generator output drops to basically nothing at idle.)

Now my heater motor was "souped up" a bit, so it might have drawn a few amps more than stock but that was with standard tungsten sealed beam headlights and 1157 tail/marker lights. And even without the heater motor, the generator didn't have enough extra capacity to recharge the battery (from starting or even sitting at a traffic light) in any reasonable length of time.

My current TR3 has no wiper motor or heater; just an electric fan that draws about 8 amps. If I drive home in stop-n-go traffic after dark, I can tell that the battery is down when I start it the next morning. Fortunately in the morning I don't need either the headlights or the fan, so it gets recharged by the time I get to work. But if work were only 2-3 miles away (as it was when I owned the 3A with the souped-up heater), the battery would get lower and lower until the car wouldn't start.

BillyB62
04-16-2012, 09:36 AM
I purchased the kit from TR Rescue and installed it this weekend. It was tight, but not unworkable. I removed my carbs prior, so I had enough space to work (well, that's relative). I had been looking to do this since I bought the car and researched the heck out of it. There are a couple of websites that have directions listed - and TR Rescue sent along a pretty detailed set with the kit (with pictures - which I like). The kit comes with a new alternator, belt, 7" bolt, heat shrink connectors, tie wraps and the instructions.

I had to grind the casing a little to make sure the pulleys lined up - but overall I very happy with their product. I told my wife I probably could've gathered all the pieces up myself and save a few bucks, but having the piece of mind that I received all the correct pieces and having Matt from TR Rescue offering phone help if I had issues was comforting and worth it in my opinion.

DanB
04-16-2012, 11:00 AM
There are some really small alternators that put out good current. I have a mitsubishi on mine, from a GEO Metro I think. I originally did a GM one wire conversion, but there was hardly any adjustment and I had to use a different size belt which was hard to find, so we redid it with the smaller mitsu and modified the mounts to fit the original geometry. A bushing had to be made for the pulley. The control box was eliminated with the GM conversion.

Or buy the kit.

Dan B
S. Charleston, WV
66 TR4A IRS EFI
80 TR7 DHC

rusty55
04-16-2012, 04:08 PM
So it's been a few weeks since I installed this. I thought I'd responded on this thread but I guess not.
What I decided to do was to leave the generator in place and connect a battery tender. The tender sits outside the vehicle but plugs into the car under the passenger dash. We drive the car mostly on weekends for maybe 3 to 4 hours at a time so I just keep it plugged in when its home in the garage.
I also wired a toggle to switch off the amp in case for some reason we need the battery to charge under the power of the generator.
It seems to be working fine and according to the tender, the battery is always fully charged before we take it out.
I have however been more cautious about running the heat, headlights, and so on when not necessary.
Thanks for the input.