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tfrisoni
08-22-2011, 03:46 PM
So I took the sprite to work this morning. After she started up she was smoking from the tailpipe. As I shifted gears en route she seemed to smoke again. The smoke appears to be white. I decided to take her home and switch cars and when I fired her up again, she was smoking pretty good. So what should I look for when I go under the hood. Mind you I am a novice and am learing from you guys and the few books/internet articles I have.

RickB
08-22-2011, 03:53 PM
White smoke sounds like steam.
Look for oil in the water / water in the oil.
Sorry - hopefully it's something else.

scoutll
08-22-2011, 07:25 PM
I agree, my first thought would be a blown head gasket. It's a pain, and as long as there aren't any other problems, it isn't that hard of a job. If you pull it, you might as well have the head checked and gone over while you have it off.

tfrisoni
08-22-2011, 09:05 PM
So I took off the Valve cover and as I was turning the cap nuts, I thought to myself, these aren't screwed down very tight. I inspected the gasket. Although old looking, there didn't appear to be any breaks in the gasket, so I put the cover back on and tightened the screws. I fired up the sprite, and low and behold, no smoke! The cap nuts have two washers that sit on top of the cover. It seems to me that they will constantly work themselves loose as I drive the car. Is this just something I will have to keep my eye on? How tight should I tighten the screws? I don't want to crush the gasket.

RickB
08-22-2011, 09:08 PM
I am not sure which nuts you refer to.
If these are head fasteners then you are probably in much deeper than you know.

tfrisoni
08-22-2011, 09:15 PM
Oh goodie! I guess I'll find out tomorrow when I take it out for a drive. I just would like to get one more month in before I start taking things apart. It is so much darn fun to drive.

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if I am in deeper than I know. I have found a few things that the PO had done rather oddly, like using a standard bolt that wasn't think enough for the clutch and brake pedal so they didn't work properly. Looking at the Moss Catalog, the setup I have is totally different than what parts they have listed. I have #8 on top of 2 flat washers. I do not have 9, 10, or 11.


https://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=76625

jlaird
08-22-2011, 09:19 PM
Those hold down bolts will not work loose. You can not really get them too tight as they will bottom on the stud.

tfrisoni
08-22-2011, 09:22 PM
So do you think the PO put in the 2 washers because it was bottoming out with one washer and it still wasn't tight?


Those hold down bolts will not work loose. You can not really get them too tight as they will bottom on the stud.

scoutll
08-22-2011, 09:49 PM
If you are talking about the two valve cover hold downs, they would have nothing to do with smoke out of the tailpipe, they just hold the valve cover down so it won't leak oil. The head would have to come off the block to repair or see the head gasket.

tfrisoni
08-22-2011, 09:53 PM
I see it now. I wasn't looking at the schematic close enough. So essentially I am going to have to take the whole top half of the engine apart to inspect the gasket. Yikes

tfrisoni
08-23-2011, 11:47 AM
So I took it out for a test this morning. It started up great (probably easier than the last dozen times). I took it out of my little neighborhood with no signs of white smoke. However, when I stopped at a stop sign and proceeded to shift into first, the white smoke came back, shifting into 2,3,4th no smoke, then shifting into 2nd after another stop sign smoke. Up to 3rd and 4th no smoke then around a corner down shifted into 3rd no smoke, up to fourth, down shift into 2nd around a slow corner no smoke, and into my garage. So does it still sound like the head gasket or might there be some other gremlin at work here?

Jer
08-23-2011, 12:58 PM
pull your spark plugs, if some are really, really clean then a good chance your head gasket is gone when head gasket goes the plugs will get "steam cleaned", also a compression test will be telling as well...
I know my #2 & #3 plugs were really clean & strangely enough both cyls had low compression until I pulled the head & noticed the black streak between the 2 cylinders...

tfrisoni
08-23-2011, 02:29 PM
I pulled the plugs. No "steam cleaned" look to any of them. All 4 looked equally black.

Spridget64SC
08-23-2011, 02:56 PM
White smoke that lingers and floats = Oil
Lighter white smoke that dissipates rather quickly = water/coolant
Black smoke close to the tail pipe = fuel

If you have a really badly blown head gasket, lots of water out the tail pipe will make a very large steam cloud and you will smell the "sweetness" of the green type coolant.

Sounds most like worn valve guides/valve stem to me. Not a guarantee, but if the smoke starts upon start up and is mostly present during off-throttle conditions, such as coasting down a hill, then I would suspect the guides. A simple compression check will help understand the condition of the head gasket, rings, and valves.

Be sure to adjust your valves if you haven't done so already. Also make sure you have the proper heat range of spark plug.

The valve cover hold downs need to have all the right pieces installed. This will eventually cause oil leaks if left uncorrected. Get 9, 10 & 11 and install. Don't over tighten. Squeezing the rubber seal out of the cup is too tight. Tighten until you can't move the valve cover with hand and light force. This doesn't take much. PO would have had to use the washer to prevent 8 bottoming and for something to tighten against with the valve cover below.

HTH,
Mike

tfrisoni
08-23-2011, 03:20 PM
I think it is more the whites smoke that lingers and floats than white smoke that dissiapates quickly. There seems to be oil leaking from a cable coming out of the engine at the lower left hand side of the engine when looking from the passenger side of the car.


White smoke that lingers and floats = Oil
Lighter white smoke that dissipates rather quickly = water/coolant
Black smoke close to the tail pipe = fuel

If you have a really badly blown head gasket, lots of water out the tail pipe will make a very large steam cloud and you will smell the "sweetness" of the green type coolant.

Sounds most like worn valve guides/valve stem to me. Not a guarantee, but if the smoke starts upon start up and is mostly present during off-throttle conditions, such as coasting down a hill, then I would suspect the guides. A simple compression check will help understand the condition of the head gasket, rings, and valves.

Be sure to adjust your valves if you haven't done so already. Also make sure you have the proper heat range of spark plug.

The valve cover hold downs need to have all the right pieces installed. This will eventually cause oil leaks if left uncorrected. Get 9, 10 & 11 and install. Don't over tighten. Squeezing the rubber seal out of the cup is too tight. Tighten until you can't move the valve cover with hand and light force. This doesn't take much. PO would have had to use the washer to prevent 8 bottoming and for something to tighten against with the valve cover below.

HTH,
Mike

Spridget64SC
08-24-2011, 06:55 AM
Take a look at the Moss catalog diagrams again. There is the oil pressure gauge sensor line that comes off the engine just below the oil pump outlet banjo bolt/oil fitting. This is a pressurized hose and has been known to be an oil leakage point. It fits with your general location description. With the Moss reference, you might be able to tell whether the hose has developed a leak or not. If the car is equiped with an oil cooler, then the oil outlet from the oil pump is in the same general location, but a little higher and larger. There is the clutch slave line too, but it is the lowest and kind of under the starter.

A cleaning of the engine and engine compartment can be helpful in finding engine leaks. Do this with some "Gunk" engine cleaner and a garden hose. Need to do this somewhere where the runoff won't hurt anything. Gravel drive, old driveway, yard, street or the like. Do this with the engine warm. Not real hot, but good and warm. Mark where the plug wire go using masking tape and a pen. Write plug cylinder # on the tape. Cover the distributor and wires with an old bread bag or grocery store type plastic bag. Cover carb inlets the same way. Spray the cleaner on the engine, let sit for about 15-20 minutes and then hose off. If you let your garden hose sit in the sun, then the water will heat up and act like a hot pressure washer. The longer the hose, the more the heated water.

Good luck, Mike

tfrisoni
08-24-2011, 12:06 PM
Great advice! Thanks. I think I am going to buy a compression tester and check for compression, but I also like the idea of cleaning the engine. As I have mentioned in previous posts, I am a complete novice who is learning about engines and all of the various components for the first time. The more closely I look at the engine, the more I seem to understand but there is still a lot there that I don't get, or even know what component it is. Additionally, when I bought the car, I knew it was a '66, but found out afterwords that they upgraded to the 1275.

Other clues I have found, there seems to be a fair a amount of oil coating the fuel seperator as well.

Any advice on a good compression tester to purchase?

Spridget64SC
08-24-2011, 01:39 PM
Down south, some of the "Box" type auto parts stores have a loan a tool program. Might be worth checking out. Maybe you can use one of theirs to see if it is one you like and are comfortable using.

Not sure what you might be calling the fuel separator. 66's should have been very basic in the fuel system area and would not have employed a separator. Maybe you mean filter???? Or, possibly the oil separator on the front of the engine. Probably front timing cover seal leakage or possible a cracked cover. Cleaning will help find.

I'll be at Road America next month for the SCCA runoffs. Lots of Spridget racers in the paddock and available for any conversation. Helping #16 and #25 in HP.

Mike

tfrisoni
08-24-2011, 01:46 PM
You are right, I meant Oil seperator. Unfortunately I live in the northeastern corner of Wisconsin, about an hour to the closest auto parts store. I do most of my shopping via Amazon becuase it is just easier that way. I might have to make a trip down to Road America. For some reason I always thought it was near Lake Geneva (which would have made it about 5 hours away) and not Sheboygan, which is only about 2 hours for me.

athenssprite
09-25-2011, 02:07 PM
Just curious - did you ever find out what was wrong?

tfrisoni
09-26-2011, 09:13 AM
It is the head gasket. I am going to replace it as soon as I get all the parts needed/have enough time to do all the work myself. Hopefully I can get it done in a few weeks.