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JohnW
02-23-2002, 08:46 PM
I’m starting a restoration (driver, not show) on a 67 E-type FHC ser 1.5. I’m kinda new to the Jag vendor scene. Any recommendations on a source for a master rebuild kit (pistons, rings, brgs, gasket set etc)? My experience with other makes is that there is a substantial savings vs. ordering all the parts separately, but the few Jag vendors I’ve seen on the web don’t seem to offer kits. Is it advisable to replace the wet sleeve liners or can a “normal” re-bore be done? All advice appreciated,

Thanks

John

Packard8@attbi.com

Jagdreamer
02-23-2002, 08:56 PM
Hi John,
Let me be the first to welcome you to a great forum! graemlins/savewave.gif I can't be of much help as its been a few years since I've owned a Jag (hence the name "JagDreamer"). However, I have heard good things about Terry's Jaguar...you might give them a call. A couple of others would be XKs Unlimited, Welshes Jaguar. Also, I've had pretty goo luck with a place up in Oregon called British Parts North West. Their prices, as I recall, were always pretty reasonable. On the resleeve, I know a company called "Whitepost Restorations" does them in Stainless Steel. Not cheap, but probably the best way to go IMHO. Are you doing a total restoration? Can you post any pics here?

PS: I think you will find this a very friendly place. Basil has done a terrific job here and its growing every day!

Welcome again!

JD graemlins/cheers.gif

[ 02-23-2002: Message edited by: Jagdreamer ]</p>

JohnW
02-24-2002, 01:18 AM
Thanks JD,

I’ve heard of Whitepost, and they have a good reputation. I’m not yet sure of what the motor will need, as it is in pieces after the former owner attempted to replace a broken #6 piston. My experience with other rebuilds has been to “do it once & do it right”…magnaflux everything, align hone & deck the block, surface the head, dynamic balance etc….in other words, know what you are starting with. I noticed that Classic Jaguar says they routinely re-sleeve their reman engines….. not sure if this is a common practice for the 4.2 or not. I recall that when overhauling the older wet sleeve Detroit Diesel 2 strokes the kit included liners & pistons as a matched set. I’m also wondering if there are any “updates” in the way of valve train components, internal parts, pistons (hypereutectic [sp?] cast vs. forged) etc. that I should be considering.

Mostly hoping to avoid the novice mistakes that more experienced others might steer me away from…&lt;grin&gt;

My goal is to have a nicely restored driver to use and enjoy, rather than a trailer queen show car. In the past I’ve been the “show route” with other marques, and learned that there is always someone with a fatter checkbook that will take the trophy home in their climate-controlled enclosed trailer. I drool over museum quality restorations, but would be afraid to drive one on the street.

Thanks again for the welcome JD, and “thank you Basil” for providing the site…

Cheers,

John

PS...I'll try to post some "before" pix

Jagdreamer
02-24-2002, 01:23 AM
Sounds like you have the right attitude! Doing it half-way will only lead to problems down the road!

Oh holy (expletive deleted)!! You have a 48 Mk IV DHC!!?? Oh you simply MUST post pictures of THAT baby! graemlins/yesnod.gif Very images/icons/cool.gif

JD graemlins/thirsty.gif

Charles #677556
02-24-2002, 06:06 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnW:
[QB]I’m starting a restoration (driver, not show) on a 67 E-type FHC ser 1.5. I’m kinda new to the Jag vendor scene. Any recommendations on a source for a master rebuild kit (pistons, rings, brgs, gasket set etc)? My experience with other makes is that there is a substantial savings vs. ordering all the parts separately, but the few Jag vendors I’ve seen on the web don’t seem to offer kits.

John;
I haven't found any Jag parts vendors that offer "rebuild kits".. for those cars that kits are offered, one must take great care that the parts are quality in nature.. in my experience, most of the "Big Three" kits offered are made in some third-world country and quality and consistancy is suspect..
Rebuilding a Jag engine correctly is an expensive proposition and installing inferior parts can result in a very costly problem and additional rebuild..
Go with the "Name Brand" quality items.. Vandervel bearings, A&E pistons, etc. The initial cost is a bit more but the peace of mind is priceless.
Additionally, shop around the big and small parts suppliers.. I have found that some of the small parts retailers are priced better (less) than some of the major parts suppliers.. And, once you have a list of prices in hand, contact several of the vendors and ask for a "package price" if you buy everything from them.. sometimes they are willing to discount 10-20%.. every little bit helps..
On the "wet sleeves", I'd only go that route if your bores are so shot that no standard oversize will "clean-up" the bores.. I feel resleeving is a "last resort" to saving an "original numbers" block..
Also, find a quality machinist who has experience with Jag engines to do your machine work, especially the head (valve) work.. this is important and Jag engines are a "bit fussy" about the clearences.. And make sure that (1) the new pistons are numbered (felt tip pen) on the crown and the bores are numbered as well and INSIST that each cylinder be bored to fit "exactly (plus apporpriate factory clearence)" the corresponding piston.. While the quality of today's piston diameter has improved greatly over the last 20+ years, it is possible to obtain a set of pistons (A&E) that the difference between the "largest" and "smallest" is enough that the "largest" will not fit into the "smallest" bore.. or be so tight as to cause a seisure during the break-in process.. Plus, I "number" the bores as per the factory service manual.. number six is at the front..it messes with the head of the machinist, but aids you in the reassembly process as you will have the factory service manual by your side at all times, right? ;-}
Last, but not least, have your engine parts balanced.. I feel this aids in the longivity of an engine by reducing any "harmonics" that will take their tole over time.. If your E-Type if fitted with a "rubber banded" front balancer, sent it out to be reconditioned.. cheap insurance, to say the least. Bill Bassett in RI offers this service.. as do other Jag vendors.
Best of luck on your rebuild.
Charles #677556.

Charles #677556
02-24-2002, 06:12 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jagdreamer:
On the resleeve, I know a company called "Whitepost Restorations" does them in Stainless Steel. Not cheap, but probably the best way to go IMHO.

JD;
I don't think White Post does cylinder bores in Stainless Steel, only brake cylinders.. at least, I've never heard of anyone resleeving their block in SS..
Charles #677556.

Jagdreamer
02-24-2002, 06:18 AM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Charles #677556:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jagdreamer:
On the resleeve, I know a company called "Whitepost Restorations" does them in Stainless Steel. Not cheap, but probably the best way to go IMHO.

JD;
I don't think White Post does cylinder bores in Stainless Steel, only brake cylinders.. at least, I've never heard of anyone resleeving their block in SS..
Charles #677556.<hr></blockquote>

You're right Charles...sorry JD, I misread your post...Somehow I had it in my head when I read "Master Rebuild Kit", you were talking about "Master Cylinder" (as in breaks)...Not what you were talking about; I didn't read slow enough graemlins/blush.gif Sorry for the confusion.

JD

[ 02-24-2002: Message edited by: Jagdreamer ]</p>

JohnW
02-24-2002, 12:58 PM
Hi Charles,

Thanks for the very informative post. True, the last thing I would want in a rebuild kit is brgs from Peru, rings from China, etc. The “kits” I’ve used for Packards are from Kantor Auto, and include all first line parts (TRW, Hastings, Federal-Mogul, Perfect Circle, Fel-Pro etc.). When I determine overbore & crankshaft journal sizes I’ll make a list and “shop around” as you suggested.

Most of the work will be done at a friend’s shop (ex-McLaren works mechanic who has a British car repair shop). He deals with a machine shop that is familiar with Jags, so I’ll have to trust his recommendation in that regard. Like you, I firmly believe in a good dynamic balance with everything bolted up, as well as the weight balance of the complete piston/rod assys., and also “hone matching” each individual piston/cyl. Thanks for the tip on the cyl numbering…now I know I have a broken #1, not
#6 piston.

JD,

Hi again. If I can figure out “how” I’ll try to post pix of the ’67. The ’48 is stored in Oklahoma (I’m in CA) and I don’t have any digital pix of it. I just recently got the fuel pumps refurbished and have yet to install them. When I’m in Tulsa next month I’ll get it running and cleaned up and take some pix. It is a “nice original” that has been in the family since the 50’s. My Granddad had a Jag dealership in Kansas and took it on a trade for a new XK 140 and thankfully held on to it.

Cheers,


John

66 fhc
02-24-2002, 03:05 PM
Hi John
Welcome to BCF. XK's Unlimited has a great parts catalog , I used it a lot to identify parts etc. They offer a 20% discount to Jag club members which I think makes them pretty competitive. Their return policy is just so so and as with most mail order anything you get your share of incorrect or bad parts. I've found some good deals on E- bay .Go to cars and trucks and type in xke. Theres usually 100 -200 items for sale at any time. Ask for price lists from some of the suppliers so you can judge if the bid prices are really that good. I'm into my fourth year of a 1 year restoration. graemlins/crazy.gif But I now have it far enough along so I can drive "Harley" around. Check out "new kid in town" in the jag forum, early january for alittle story of how i got my 66 fhc.Good luck Scott

JohnW
02-25-2002, 12:41 AM
Hi JD,

Sorry, ain’t got no stinkin’ URL’s….suppose I should get one, but thanks for the info anyhow…I’ll print it for future use. I’ll email the pix to Basil if its okay with him.

66 fhc,

I’ll check the posts for your story, but I’m sure I’ve got ya beat time wise. I found this car in a neighbor’s garage (buried under mattresses, boxes, etc) in 1989 (I think). Its been sitting in my “barn” since waiting for time & money to fix it up… I still don’t have either, but I’ll fake it. Thanks for the tips on vendors. Congrats on being able to turn the key & go…all I can do is sit in the car, shift gears and go varoom…varoom….haha.

Cheers,

John

Basil
02-25-2002, 01:03 AM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JohnW:
Hi JD,

&lt;snip&gt; I’ll email the pix to Basil if its okay with him.

<hr></blockquote>

Yep, its ok with him! images/icons/wink.gif You send it, I'll post it (and put it in our members' gallery too) images/icons/tongue.gif

By the way, welcome to the forum! graemlins/savewave.gif We're not as big and active as aome of the places that have been around for years, but we're getting bigger and better every day. To echo what JD said, I think you'll find the forum a very friendly place (some of us are a little graemlins/crazy.gif but all are nice ).

As you explore the site, let me know if you have any questions,

Later,
Basil graemlins/usa.gif
67 OTS #1E13333

Charles #677556
02-25-2002, 03:42 AM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JohnW:
Hi Charles,

Thanks for the very informative post. True, the last thing I would want in a rebuild kit is brgs from Peru, rings from China, etc. The “kits” I’ve used for Packards are from Kantor Auto, and include all first line parts (TRW, Hastings, Federal-Mogul, Perfect Circle, Fel-Pro etc.). When I determine overbore & crankshaft journal sizes I’ll make a list and “shop around” as you suggested.

Most of the work will be done at a friend’s shop (ex-McLaren works mechanic who has a British car repair shop). He deals with a machine shop that is familiar with Jags, <hr></blockquote>

John W;
You are most welcome.. I hope my suggestions help you.
Several years ago, I ordered some parts from a major west coast Jaguar vendor only to receive parts made in third world countries.. needless to say, I sent them back and will only purchase from them pieces that are unobtainable any where else.. Ask where the parts are made OR obtained from when you do your "shopping around".. I have found that "some" of the major vendors are nothing more than "resalers" as opposed to "retailers".. if you search a bit, you can find where they buy their parts and purchase direct, for a considerable savings.. especially on "big ticket" items like interior wood and interior kits..
I have used Kanter for a couple of "Dee-Troit Irons" I restored and am very satisfied with their selection of quality parts.. including the Dana U-Joints I received.. a pleasant surprise. To bad they won't get into the Brit car market.. they would make a bundle off Jag folks alone images/icons/wink.gif
Sounds like you have a quality mechanic and machinist lined up.. this is key to a quality restoration, even if it is a "driver".. I'm doing a full frame-off on my '53 120 DHC, once it's back to an "As Left Factory" condition, I'm going to drive the wheels off of it graemlins/crazy.gif ..
I bought my DHC '67 and drove it till '75.. took it apart to paint it and one thing lead to another.. it's still in lots of boxes graemlins/nopity.gif .. But I'm gaining on it graemlins/thumbsup.gif .
Best of luck of your Jags.

[ 02-24-2002: Message edited by: Basil ]</p>

Charles #677556
02-25-2002, 03:52 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jagdreamer:
[QB]

You're right Charles.. &lt;Snipped&gt; Somehow I had it in my head when I read "Master Rebuild Kit", you were talking about "Master Cylinder" (as in breaks)...Not what you were talking about; I didn't read slow enough graemlins/blush.gif Sorry for the confusion.

JD;
I wouldn't worry about it images/icons/grin.gif , it's not like the rest of us haven done the same thing once or twice... or fifty times graemlins/angel.gif

Jagdreamer
02-25-2002, 04:36 AM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JohnW:
&lt;snip&gt;
JD,

Hi again. If I can figure out “how” I’ll try to post pix of the ’67. <hr></blockquote>

John,
Posting pictures is very easy, but the picture you are posting has to reside on a server somewhere (like maybe your own home page). Assume you have a picture called myjag.jpg in a directory called "pictures" on your homepage called{https://www.myhomepage.com} You want to post it in a message here:
1. Either reply to an existing post or start a new post.
2. Immediately under the text window where you type your message, you will see a series of buttons under a heading called "Instant UBB Code"
3. When you are at the point in your post where you wish to post the picture, click on the button labled "IMAGE".
4. A little box will pop up and you simply type the complete URL to the picture. In this case:
"https://www.myhomepage.com/pictures/myjag.jpg" (without the quotes)
5. Click "OK"
6. Submit your post
7. Now, when you view your post, you should see the picture inserted where you included the UBB Image code.

If you don't have your pictures on a server, I'm sure Basil will put it up for you.

Cheers,
JD

PS: If you don't know what the URL to your picture is, simply go to your picture and right-click your mouse over the picture and look at "properties" The URL must end in an actual picture (e.g., mypicture.jpg). Some online picture storing services like Yahoo, store the pictures in relational databases and do not allow direct pointing to pictures.

[ 02-24-2002: Message edited by: Jagdreamer ]</p>

JohnW
02-25-2002, 05:12 PM
Agreed Charles…. “drive the wheels off”. I have a 1963 Avanti R2 (factory supercharged 289 V8) that I fixed up and then used as my “business vehicle” for two years (tax deductible restoration). I put over 50K miles on it in two years and it never missed a beat, rain or shine (except for numerous flats until I wised up and put HD truck tubes in the Borranni wires). To me, it’s a toss-up whether the Raymond Lowey designed Avanti (1963 with round headlights) or the E-Type fhc has the “sweetest” lines of any 1960’s production car….the XK150 got “too fat”, IMHO…tho I love the 120 & 140.

A novice question re E-Type numbering; my data plate reads:

Car No. 1E 33159

At the lower right edge of the data plate is another aluminum tag (about ˝ inch X 1 ˝ inches & attached by screws) with raised letters reading:

J / 68

Any thoughts? The car is titled as a 1967, has the open headlight bonnet, 3 carbs, toggle switch dash and low back seats and all of the components (engine, trans #’s) correspond to the data plate.

Thx

John

“Drive ‘em as they were meant to be driven”