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Sherlock
12-23-2004, 07:11 AM
I've come across a set of pictures recently in Flickr of real vintage stuff, pre-WWI pictures of cars taken in the United States.

I'd love to somehow figure out what the cars in the pictures are, I don't claim to know much about identifying cars that old, anyone have any knowledge in this area? or know anyone who has the knowledge?

I was in contact with the person who posted the pictures and he says he has more vintage pictures like this of cars, haven't seen them yet...

[The guy who found the pictures doesn't know either, so he's no help]

Picture #1

https://photos2.flickr.com/2436551_f828bd52e1.jpg

Sherlock
12-23-2004, 07:12 AM
Picture #2

https://photos2.flickr.com/2436477_a87e78b78b.jpg

Sherlock
12-23-2004, 07:14 AM
Picture #3

(looks like same car as picture #2)

https://photos3.flickr.com/2436472_8f16235f3d.jpg

Sherlock
12-23-2004, 07:16 AM
Picture #4

https://photos2.flickr.com/2182805_499d914645.jpg

Sherlock
12-23-2004, 07:22 AM
Picture #5

posted by someone different than the previous pictures - 1909 print of a commerical vehicle, possibly in Europe, anyone know what this vehicle might be?

https://photos3.flickr.com/2343065_3a35b69965.jpg

Steve_S
12-23-2004, 07:44 AM
I know a "guy" who can probably identify these cars. I'll send him the photos.

aeronca65t
12-23-2004, 11:00 AM
I love these old "brass era" cars. There was numerous cottage-industry companies building "motors" even before 1900. Many of them reminded me of the internet-boom companies 100 years later, that rose up and went bust in only a few years.
I am aquainted with a local family named Duryea. They are related to Charles Duryea, credited with building the first production American car (around 1886 I think).
Many of these old cars are just one step removed from horse-drawn wagons. I especially like the look of the curved dash Olsmobile, the early Panhards, the *original* Ford Model A and similar cars.
I am presently working with several students who are building a half-scale replica of a curved dash Olds (just a "fun project"....for parades and stuff like that).

Steve_S
12-26-2004, 02:24 AM
Ok, here are a few responses I've received....

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Number 5 is either a Taxi or Motor Omnibus but I can't make out thedestination sign on the roof, except for the "Cafe de...." which might meanthat it's French, so possible a Renault, Peugeot, Citroen, Darracq, De Dion Maybe this site could help https://vea.qc.ca/vea/club/marques1.htm ?
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The last one is defenitively a Paris Taxi. I looked in a book about WWI and it looks like the ones that were used to take troops to the front.
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These all look familiar, but I think the easiest thing for you to do is contact John C. Meyer III, who is a longtime Society of Automotive Historians member and current editor of the Horseless Carriage Gazette. He lives in West Hills, CA and can be contacted at john@horseless.com

He is a nice guy, and has a very early car (I don't recall what) along with a 12 cylinder Pierce-Arrow.
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This John Meyer guy lives a couple miles from me. I think I need to pay him a visit! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Bruce Bowker
12-26-2004, 10:08 AM
I thought #5 was the first version of the Munster's car. I wonder if the accident in picture # 4 took place at the horrific speed of 10 mph?

Bruce

sammyb
12-26-2004, 02:57 PM
An interesting discussion of terms and usage -- Generally, when auto historians, racers etc... talk about "vintage" cars, they are referring to 1949-1970 -- so basically the first post-war designs through the last true muscle car designs.

"Classic" refers to the "Classic-Era" of 1925-1948 (or the price-no-object, custom coachwork era.)

Brass-Era precedes the Classic Era -- but it's okay to use "Antique to include all pre-classic era and pre-brass era cars.

When discussing vintage racing -- they generally use three terms: vintage (1962-1969,) historic (1940-1962) and antique/pre-war (prior to 1940)

Sherlock
12-26-2004, 03:52 PM
Steve S... Will make contact when I'm able to, or may just simply point the originator of the photographs that way even, he has told that he has even more pictures similar to those above that he hasn't gotten to yet, he inherited them from some older familiy members and there lots of them from that time period (both automotive and non-automotive)

Here you will find the complete set of old pictures posted so far (near the bottom of the list of photo sets)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tektsu/sets/

sunbeammadd
12-28-2004, 02:16 AM
Aah interesting. I always thought when I heard "vintage" used to describe post-war cars it was simply sloppy use of terminology.

Looks like this is actually yet another difference between British and American terminology.

We classify cars as follows:

Veteran - up to 1904
Edwardian - 1905 - 1918
Vintage - 1919 - 1930

after that they're pretty much all just classic cars!


[ QUOTE ]
An interesting discussion of terms and usage -- Generally, when auto historians, racers etc... talk about "vintage" cars, they are referring to 1949-1970 -- so basically the first post-war designs through the last true muscle car designs.

"Classic" refers to the "Classic-Era" of 1925-1948 (or the price-no-object, custom coachwork era.)

Brass-Era precedes the Classic Era -- but it's okay to use "Antique to include all pre-classic era and pre-brass era cars.

When discussing vintage racing -- they generally use three terms: vintage (1962-1969,) historic (1940-1962) and antique/pre-war (prior to 1940)

[/ QUOTE ]

Graham
12-28-2004, 10:17 AM
Yes, Sunbeammad, out here vintage is only used for 1919 - 1930 vehicles.
In western Australia the official licencing authority designations are

Veteran - anything manufactured prior to 1918
Vintage - anything manufactured 1919 - 1930
Post Vintage - anything manufactured 1930 - 1950
Invitation class - 1950 to not less than 25 years old.

The English have an official Edwardian class for vehicles manufactured during the reign of Edward the seventh until 1910 that were made after 1904. Between 1910 & 1918 is veteran, and pre 1904 is (I Think) horseless carriages.
The car clubs out here tend to vary some of those a little and usualy have a section called classic or pre war classic or some such, depending on the organisation during the 30s up until WW2, but VINTAGE or VETERAN is NEVER used for any vehicle post 1930.

piman
12-28-2004, 11:04 AM
Hello Sam,
slightly confusing when travelling from one side of the Atlantic to the other, our UK classification is broadly:- Veteran until 1913, then Vintage until 1931, cars older than 1931, if deemed to have sufficient technical merit are Post Vintage Thoroughbreds, after that there is no real definition. Classics are generally cars from the 50's to the 70's. but with no rigid demarcation as in the case of the other three classifications.


Alec

vagt6
12-28-2004, 03:19 PM
My favorite "designation" of an antique car is shown on the license plate of a friend's 1938 Oldsmobile.

It simply says "Old".

coldplugs
12-28-2004, 11:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
... or know anyone who has the knowledge?


[/ QUOTE ]

I know someone. Today, a friend immediately identified the car in pictures #2 and 3 as a 1906 or 1907 Buick Model 10. A quick check with google confirmed this. #4 is probably the same.

#1 is probably a 1903 or 1904 model. He noted the chain drive and optional "Torneau" rear door entry. He's seen this (Torneau) on a couple of Fords and a Cadillac of that era. Neither of us is sure of the make. He thinks it looks like a car made in Sanford, Maine but that's highly unlikely.

Roger
12-29-2004, 04:55 PM
Sam B.,
What you write may be o.k. for American readers, but we Brits have different definions.
A Vintage car (as defined by the oldest body of such enthusisats, the Vintage Sports Car Club)has to have been built before Dec 31st 1930 - see https://www.vscc.co.uk

Bugeye58
12-29-2004, 10:21 PM
Who was it that said, "England and America. Two countries separated by a common language." ?
Jeff

aeronca65t
12-30-2004, 10:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Who was it that said, "England and America. Two countries separated by a common language." ?
Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

"Tom-ahh-toe"....."Tom-may-toe" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif

piman
01-02-2005, 02:03 PM
Hello all,

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who was it that said, "England and America. Two countries separated by a common language." ?
Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe it was Winston Churchill.

Alec

Sherlock
01-03-2005, 12:38 AM
Thanks John (Coldplugs)...

That was helpful, anyone want anymore old vintage cars to identify? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif There were some more posted today by the same guy...

Sherlock
01-03-2005, 12:40 AM
#6

https://photos3.flickr.com/2850728_e07d36567b.jpg

Sherlock
01-03-2005, 12:42 AM
#7

https://photos3.flickr.com/2850727_c872bcec3f.jpg

Sherlock
01-03-2005, 12:43 AM
#8

https://photos2.flickr.com/2850726_d487d189ca.jpg

coldplugs
01-04-2005, 02:40 PM
#7 is a Model T so I went to my Ford expert. He says it's a 1924 model because the 1925 had 21 inch tires instead of the 30 inch tires on this car, and the 1923 model had suicide doors. I won't argue.

#8 may be a Willys Knight - not sure.

No clue on #6. Curved dash but not an Olds.