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Basil
12-13-2004, 06:37 PM
I had the chance to go look at the new C6 Corvette this weekend and I have to be honest. I think they took what was a beautiful design with the C5 and ruined it in the C6. All the smooth curves of the C5 are gone, replaced with sharp angles all over. The front of the car looks too much like an oversized Miata. The interior looks very "ricy." The streering wheel looks like it belongs in a Chevy Malibu or Impala - not a Corvette! Maybe in time it will grown on me, but my first impression is not positive.

Basil

Steve_S
12-14-2004, 02:10 AM
Yep, sounds about right. And it's exactly what America wants. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/pukeface.gif

78Z
12-14-2004, 02:33 AM
The recently leaked Z06 pics and specs look promising though. A 7L 500hp motor!

Steve_S
12-14-2004, 03:17 AM
Bet I have more fun in my 100HP MG! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

Bruce Bowker
12-14-2004, 08:44 AM
Basil - could not agree more. I think the new Corvette looks like a Miata/Mitsubishi/Toyota/Nissan. Sad.

Bruce

Basil
12-14-2004, 10:02 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Yep, sounds about right. And it's exactly what America wants. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/pukeface.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That remains to be seen. I've heard that its not being as well received as the C5 was. For example, when I first looked at the C5, the dealer had the one on the showroom floor marked up $6000. The C6 I saw this past weeekend did not have any additional markup.

Basil

Steve
12-14-2004, 11:33 AM
I agree that the C6 is a little odd-looking. The C5 had very sensuous styling, there could be no mistake about what you were looking at.....it was a Corvette! The C6 has traces of a Miata, it's true, but I also get the impression that they were trying to get more of a Dodge Viper look about it. Anyone else see that? I think that it will still sell, after all it's still a Corvette, but maybe not in the numbers that they would hope for. Some of those with a C5 may decide to keep it, as it's better-looking, but there will be some who will switch, just to be seen in the new one.

Eric
12-14-2004, 01:03 PM
Interesting.... I have the opposite reaction. I always found the C5 bland and uninteresting, especially compared to the Stingrays and "C3"s I grew up with. The C6 is the first Vette since the early 70s that I'd consider owning.

Of course, I also like the Bangle BMWs, so maybe I'm just a contrarian! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

sammyb
12-14-2004, 02:23 PM
From a pure academic standpoint...
The C5 design was a combination of C4 and 93-95 Mazda RX7, which was considered a high watermark of sports car design in the mid 1990s. There was also a big push to make a large "butt," which was assumed to have been intended to associate the C5 with the many large and wide rear ended supercars, such as the Ferrari Testarossa, Lamborghini Countach and Porsche 959.

The C6 was originally intended to be less of a change, but Lutz demanded a reduction in overall size to compete with Porsche. (The Corvette has always been labled as "too big.")

While everyone accused the Viper of going "Corvette" in the latest generation, the C6 moved even closer, adding some of the Viper's edges. It also utilized styling almost identical to Ferrari 360 Modena.

I honestly believe that at 60mph, a layperson will not be able to tell the difference between a C5 and C6. The similarities are too many. The one large difference is the headlight design (non pop-up.)

The interior is very downmarket, and I find it to be slightly more comfortable than my C5, but the fake aluminum plastic is cheesy.

And the steering wheel IS off of a Malibu.

Most importantly, the quality control is still horrible. The production line was stopped because 6 speed transmissions were failing.

But people will buy them. They are still great performance bargains, and still are great sports cars, and are wildly fun to drive (and drive competitively.)

MGA Steve
12-14-2004, 04:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The interior is very downmarket, and I find it to be slightly more comfortable than my C5, but the fake aluminum plastic is cheesy.

And the steering wheel IS off of a Malibu.

Most importantly, the quality control is still horrible. The production line was stopped because 6 speed transmissions were failing.

[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif Sammy, all excellent reasons to wait a couple of years for the SVT Cobra version of the new Mustang! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

waltesefalcon
12-14-2004, 11:20 PM
Hmm, to be honest I think the Corvette lost all its appeal years ago. Personally I find the early 70s vettes to be the last appealing corvettes.

sammyb
12-15-2004, 03:16 AM
Walter,
Looks-wise, well, that's very subjective. On being a real sports car though, as an owner of C3, C4 and C5 Corvettes, there's really no comparison. The C5 is really a world-class car, whereas the C3 and C4 are just the best of the contemporary American cars.

C3s are almost unusable as daily drivers by modern standards. They are brutes (especially the early ones.) No sophistication whatsoever. Steering and brakes are numb with power assist, or unusable in traffic without power assist! (I've had 'em all ways - with and without.)

It's very easy to dismiss a C5 until you actually drive one. Even the most anti-Corvette people I know have done an about-face after driving my C5. It's the detail things that American cars never got -- like easy to read gauges, and a shifter that is so close in promimity to the steering wheel you can actually shift with a thumb still on the steering wheel. Also, the heads-up display is a plus.

When my '99 drowned in Houston, I actually went through driving all convertibles under $100K, and there were four sports cars that were truly great: C5, Porsche 911, Porsche Boxster S and Mazda Miata. (The BMW M3 Convertible had just come out, but were unobtainable -- going for $75K USED!) I didn't fit in the Miata or Boxster S, and the 911 was twice the price of a C5 convertible ($50K vs $100K) when realistically equipped. I also looked at a Honda S2000, which was fun but it wasn't really a usable daily driver.

The 911 and C5 were really equals in every way shape and form. In convertible form, the C5 is a better performer than the 911 ragtop (which is a bit heavier.) While everyone knocked the C5 interior, it was absolutely on par with the 996 911. It came down to twice the price for a marque that's nice...So I bought another C5.

Now on the Mustang...
I don't want to offend MGA Steve, and he already knows I love the early Mustangs, but the new Mustang Cobra won't do anything for me. It's not that I'm a snob, but it simply is a little too brutish, and nowhere near sophisticated enough for me. Something about a car that is fundamentally shared with a V6 secretary's car. I guess that's because I like sports cars the most -- and sports cars, by nature, aren't sedan-based, which is what the Mustang is. Even suping it up to the max, like in the SVT Cobra still doesn't change it's design for a small engine and commuting comfort.

I want performance in a sports car, and sophistication in a sedan. I don't think you ever get a world-class result by trying to eek world-class performance out of a sedan...mostly because you have to reduce sophistication to get it.

Which, I suppose which is why I'd choose a AC/Shelby Cobra over a Shelby Mustang, or a '69 Corvette over a '69 Z28 Camaro.

Yes -- I'm going on and on again.

Basil
12-15-2004, 09:06 AM
I agree about the Mustang - a nice car for what it is, but a true sports car it isn't. What I like about the C5 is that it has amazing power and handleing, but is not brutish to drive. I used to have a C4 (a 90 Vert) and there is no comparision. The C5 has a level of refinement that is unheard of in a car under $60k. Also, I drive my c5 regularly across country and as long as I keep it on cruse control and don't hot rod, I get amazing gas milage (usually better than 34MPG across country.

Now, back to the C6. While I'm sure it is a great car (same HP as the current Z06), the looks of the car just don't appeal to me. Bottom line is, I'm very happy with the C5 and see no reason to rush out and get something new. We'll see what the C7 is like /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Basil

waltesefalcon
12-15-2004, 10:57 AM
Sammy,

It really is the styling that has turned me off from Corvettes. I know that they are much more refined sophisticated machines now, I just think they are poorly pacakged. I would like to see Corvette produce a car that had styling that could compete with say a 67 Stingray, rather than looks that can compete with a Cavalier. Just my two cents.

sammyb
12-15-2004, 01:11 PM
Walter,
Totally understood, and in many senses, I agree.

The funny thing is that a lot of people point to the swoopy coke-bottle C3 as the last really great-looking Corvettes, but as far as press coverage and design analysis are concerned, the C3 was even more bashed than the C4, C5 or C6.

The C3 started the design stealing, and utilizing other cars' cues. The C3 was derivative of the Ferrari 250GTO...it used airplane-cockpit styled interior, which had been popular on European cars of the 50s (and Buick Rivieras in 1963.)

Basically, almost the entire motoring press gasped when the C3 was unveiled in summer of 1967. It looked like a bad joke of all the previous decade's iconic styling cues.

The C4 used styling less derivative of other cars, but essentially just "fixed" what people didn't like about the long-running (68-82)C3. Press called it bland.

C5 tried to actually make a styling statement, but as previously mentioned, it was just like the C3 -- stealing from other cars (Testarossa meets RX7.)

C6 is like the C4 -- just fixing what people didn't like about the C5 (big butt and pop-up headlights.) Again, it's bland. Has no individual character. Not a bad car, just not exciting in design.

It's the same gripe I have about Ford -- if all your cars utilize styling of past models (either yours -- in Ford's case) or someone else's (Chev) then you're doomed never to be a leader and appeal to the younger market. So in 20 years, GM and Ford will have tiny market share as their core customers die off.

aeronca65t
12-15-2004, 04:20 PM
I have to admit that the Corvettes I really identify with are the live axle models....I guess I'm showing my age.

Once when I was a college kid, I actually saw Zora Arkus-Duntov driving a Mako Shark show car (around 1970 and at Watkins Glen). This was the prototype for the 70's Vette, I think.
Last summer, I saw a replica split-window '63 GranSport which was pretty cool, but I still prefer the "oldies".
I agree that all Corvettes are a far better value than almost any other two-seat high-end GT/exotic.

These old-school, repli-Vettes look sort of interesting to me:

https://www.kitcar.com/lonestar/66roadster2.html
https://www.kitcar.com/lonestar/images/blue_vette.jpg

R6MGS
12-15-2004, 08:28 PM
This is just my opinion but the C3 Corvette is the most beautifully(if thats what you wanna call it?) car around, the onyl thing that comes close is the E-Type.The C3 is like "sex on Wheels". As far as the C6 goes it seams to small I loved the C5 and have been trying to convince my dad to by one. I guess the C6 will just have to grow on me I never liked the C4 when it was new but now iam starting to see it's appeal too.....so maybe that what will happen with the C6.

Zack

Zack

sammyb
12-15-2004, 08:46 PM
My Corvette favs in order: '59, '65, '53, '02, '69, '05, '95

The C3 was definitely sex on wheels, but the problem is that when it came out, it was too much of a caricature. It was like a 1970's John Travolta trying to get a date in the New Wave '80s. Looks great now, and looked great to those who were "behind the times" in the late 60s and 70s...but for fashion/design concious -- it was an embarrasment.

The later solid-axle Vettes -- the only things anyone could say bad about them were 1)the solid rear axle! and 2)those weak, self-destructing brakes.

coldplugs
12-15-2004, 11:31 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I have to admit that the Corvettes I really identify with are the live axle models....I guess I'm showing my age.
...<snipped>

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree with aeronca65t on this one. I was a Corvette fan for many years & worked at a Chevy dealer while I was in high school and then college. Actually I worked for my father & I remember the '53 Corvette announcement at the dealership and seeing the car (in Polo White, of course) slowly rotating on a showroom turntable surrounded by admirers. I was very unhappy that it had a six cylinder engine and Powerglide just like my grandfather's '51 Chevy. I really loved those silly wire covered headlights, though and insisted on getting a similar cover for the light on my "two-wheeler" that I'd just learned to ride.

In the sixties I had a '57 and then a '58 and thought they were pretty sloppy in the handling department. The stock brakes were dangerous. I spent a lot of time on the '58 making it into a decent car, with stiff shocks, quick steering, sintered iron brakes, etc. It was a good car & I'd love to have it back. I had a good friend with a '63 that was a great car. He used it in gymkhanas and did well. (I know, it wasn't a solid axle).

Later I had a '77 (maybe it was a '76). I hated that car. Very competent - you could cover lots of ground quickly with it - but way too "boy-racer" for me. Sold it & got a Jeep.

I drove a friends C5 a while back - also competent but not my cup of tea. It looked like a whale parked next to my Elan coupe & seemed huge on the road. I was insulted when it insisted on shifting from first to fourth instead of second which is what I told it to do. And on a manual transmission yet....

The early cars were crude for sure, but they could be made into sports cars with some work.

Still, lots of folks love Corvettes & I wouldn't argue with them. It'd be awfully boring if we all liked the same things, wouldn't it?

Basil
12-15-2004, 11:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I was insulted when it insisted on shifting from first to fourth instead of second which is what I told it to do. And on a manual transmission yet....

[/ QUOTE ]

That buged me too. Luckily, it was a very easy mod to by-pass the 1-to-4th shift gate. Just had to unplug a cable on the tranny and plug in a $20 dummy load.

Bruce Bowker
12-16-2004, 07:25 AM
If we are listing favorite Corvettes

1957
1965
1966

Bruce

sammyb
12-16-2004, 11:18 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was insulted when it insisted on shifting from first to fourth instead of second which is what I told it to do. And on a manual transmission yet....

[/ QUOTE ]

That buged me too. Luckily, it was a very easy mod to by-pass the 1-to-4th shift gate. Just had to unplug a cable on the tranny and plug in a $20 dummy load.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, this was the first modification I did to both my '99 and my 2002. The mod took 20 minutes the first time and 5 the second -- and 4 out of the 5 was just lifting the car.

MGA Steve
12-20-2004, 11:30 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't want to offend MGA Steve, and he already knows I love the early Mustangs, but the new Mustang Cobra won't do anything for me. It's not that I'm a snob . . . Something about a car that is fundamentally shared with a V6 secretary's car. . . Even suping it up to the max, like in the SVT Cobra still doesn't change it's design for a small engine and commuting comfort.

Which, I suppose which is why I'd choose a AC/Shelby Cobra over a Shelby Mustang, or a '69 Corvette over a '69 Z28 Camaro.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sammy, you have never offended me--my favorite car in my high school days was the '62 Corvette (and I still don't like the C3 styling!). You did notice the "wink" after my Mustang comment, didn't you?

And as I have mentioned in several other posts, since I saw my first one up-close in college (new 289 at 6000 rpm, smoking tires in every gear, up to 60 in a block from a stop sign) my favorite sports car has always been the Shelby Cobra, not the Shelby Mustang!

Those quoted comments mean you're not a snob, huh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif

sammyb
12-20-2004, 02:09 PM
Oh, I probably am a snob...at least in theory. In practice, I can't afford to be a snob.

I'd love to drive a BWM 745LI as my family car, with a bunch of exotic and obscure old classics...

But it's hard to be a snob when you're usually seen in a 1998 Oldsmobile Intrigue carting around two little girls through the grocery store parking lot.

Did I mention that I do like the Mustang's color-changing gauge faces? It's a gimmick thing, but it's great for ADD guys like me that like change and to see something new all the time. I also happen to like the '68 type-face.

MGA Steve
12-21-2004, 09:35 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I'd love to drive a BWM 745LI as my family car, with a bunch of exotic and obscure old classics...

[/ QUOTE ]
I followed one home from work last night (in my pickup, which also makes it hard to be a snob). The rear tires on that BMW were wider than the Goodyear Wrangler ATS off-road tires on my Ford 4x4! Maybe if you and I sold all of our classic cars, we too could afford a Beemer like that. We just couldn't afford to replace the tires (or anything else) when they wore out! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Speaking of expensive family cars, should I be jealous of the dentist in our office building who parks his new silver Bentley R coupe in his reserved parking spot in our underground parking garage? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonod.gif

12-21-2004, 02:14 PM
Uh oh, i couldn't help but jump into this one, I saw someone mention the Mustang Cobra.

First the Vettes, they're in my family's blood, but strangly I've never owned one. My father was into them big time back in the day, he's had a 58, a 62, and a 63 (which was a gift to my mom when she told him she was pregnant with me, go figure). The rear end on the C5 always bugged me, that slab sided thing, but I do like the C5 better than the C6. Overall however I am glad that GM has built a car that can directly compete with some of the best from Europe, at least on the track, and the price makes them superior bang for your buck buys.

Now the Mustang, it has always bugged me that people compare the 03/04 Cobra to the Corvette, as I do not think Ford ever intended the car to be a Corvette killer directly. The cars are in different classes, although the straight line performance of the two is similar. I know a lot of guys that got PO'd when the 03/04 cobra came out, because here was a sub 35K pony car with 400 horse and an IRS that could take their sacred Corvettes to lunch, and give a Z06 a run for it's money. No offense Sammy, but most Vette owners I've met are snobby about their cars. I'm not saying you are though, I try not to use stereotypes or judge by what someone drives, but alot of guys would not even line up with you if they were in a Vette and you were in a Mustang, like you weren't worthy. Now things will change, the new Z06 is slated for what, next year, and with 500 horse. The new Cobra is to follow in late 06, or 07, and rumors are flying like crazy. Will it have the same blown 4.6 4V, a 5.4, or some are even saying a blown 5.4 pushing close to 500 horse. Personally i don't think that'll happen, as it will come to close to the GT in raw power numbers, and I don't think Ford wants to encroach on the GT in any way. Overall though the Mustang has always catered to a different crowd than the Vette, and vise versa, with that distinction being more evident now than ever. The stang, and especially the Cobra, have always appealed to guys that wanted that raw, visceral, unsophisticated power. It's an unpretentious everymans performance car, and the 05 GT makes that even clearer. Where else can you get a 300hp sport coupe, capable of low to mid 13's in the quarter, for 25 grand? Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this thread and turn the discussion from the Vette to the Mustang, I'll shut up now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

JBsC5
01-23-2015, 07:48 AM
Just saying hello...my c6 z51 m6 has been a great car to own since new. Extremely reliable and trouble free 85 k miles..

this has been a nice ride although not as pretty as the c5 in exterior design...

aeronca65t
01-23-2015, 08:53 AM
Hi JB!

PAUL161
01-25-2015, 10:02 AM
Say what you will, but to me, this is the most beautiful Corvette ever made, 1960. PJ
35970

JBsC5
01-26-2015, 08:29 PM
That was a beauty as well..

wishing you guys well. (Especially with our impending 2 feet of snow tonight)

PAUL161
02-08-2015, 11:17 AM
I will say this about the 2015 model, I might let them park one in my garage if need be. I just don't like those Black wagon wheels and those crappy looking tires, that have about as much flex as a block of wood.:sour: :highly_amused:

https://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz87/PJ161/PAUL/2015-corvette-z06-officially-revealed-in-detroit-live-photos-1080p-1_zps88706294.jpg (https://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz87/PJ161/PAUL/?action=view&current=2015-corvette-z06-officially-revealed-in-detroit-live-photos-1080p-1_zps88706294.jpg)

https://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz87/PJ161/PAUL/2015-corvette-z06-officially-revealed-in-detroit-live-photos_6_zps84897917.jpg (https://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz87/PJ161/PAUL/?action=view&current=2015-corvette-z06-officially-revealed-in-detroit-live-photos_6_zps84897917.jpg)

NutmegCT
02-08-2015, 12:08 PM
Gentlemen - *this* is a Chevrolet Corvette:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3941/15417256048_73b6f54760.jpg

With quite an owner.

SaxMan
02-09-2015, 06:54 PM
I think I agree -- the new C6 Corvette has lost the design features that make a Corvette a Corvette. It looks too Camaro-ish from the rear, looks too Japanese-ish from the front. Then again, this car is probably aimed more at well-to-do Millennials who grew up on Fast & Furious movies than the now middle-aged Gen Xers like myself, who unfortunately came of age during the nadir of automotive performance and styling in the 1980s, not to mention aging Baby Boomers. But, we all knew what a Corvette was supposed to look like!

Back to Gen X and coming of age during some of the worst times for style and performance....I think that's why hobbyists my age are so "all over the map" when it comes to the cars we want to collect. I have a buddy who first went the sport-compact route with various Mazdas. He now has an '89 Fiero GT with a Buick 3800 supercharged motor stuffed into it. You have myself and some others who like the LBCs, and then you have your muscle car enthusiasts, too.

3798j
02-09-2015, 07:43 PM
Gentlemen - *this* is a Chevrolet Corvette:
With quite an owner.
And...here's another C1 Corvette with quite an owner.

https://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr268/3798j/Forum/AlanShepard_zps2177def2.jpeg (https://s490.photobucket.com/user/3798j/media/Forum/AlanShepard_zps2177def2.jpeg.html)

Saxman, Pretty certain your reference to Corvette similarities with Camaro styling cues actually refer to the C7 series rather than the C6.

aeronca65t
02-09-2015, 09:44 PM
As a kid, I was an enthusiastic follower of the early astronauts and their exploits.

That's Alan Shephard.

I think GM actually gave him that car after his successful mission.

pdplot
02-11-2015, 05:45 PM
Guys, I'm sorry to disagree. I followed a new Vette down the highway today, passed it and got a good look at all sides. It was impressive - more like a Lambo or other supercar. I never liked the "package shelf" rear end of the last model - the front end was ok. I did not check out the interior but I plan to. I will agree that the best looking Corvettes were the 1956 through 1980s models but they were mechanically crude and unsophisticated. I drove a Sting Ray model back in the day and for some reason, I never wanted to own one. Perhaps the fact that (a) my friend's caught fire and burned, and (b) a client of mine had one attempted steal when parked at a dealership and one successful steal when they flat-bedded the car right out of his driveway one night while he slept. He collected the insurance and never replaced the car.

3798j
02-16-2015, 10:32 AM
Always thought the sharpest looking series of Corvette was the '63-'67 C2. Understood it was a favorite of this owner too.

https://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff356/StingU2/GordenCooper63corvette_zps5b04293b.jpg

aeronca65t
02-16-2015, 11:44 AM
Another NASA-jockey! (Cooper).

My neighbor across the street has a medium blue '66 roadster. Small block with 4 speed. He drives it once or twice a year. I have another neighbor several houses away who has a late C1. Same thing....rarely drives it.

And as far as I know, these guys never talk to each other either (of course, I've talked to both of them).
I can't imagine two MG owners living 3 houses apart not talking to each other.

We have Corvette racers that run with us that are just like all the Brit-car racers....chatty and fun to talk to.
But some of these Corvette street-car guys seem to only take their car out of the garage to polish it.

When I moved in, a neighbor with a Triumph 650 bike came over right away to chat when he saw my cars. And another neighbor with a P1800 (but former Brit-car owner) has become friends with us too. Another neighbor with a new 911 hasn't stopped in but he does wave as he passes by. And I've had several Brit-car guys who were just driving by have stopped in to ask about the cars. Just my opinion, but the Euro car guys seem more social (and interesting).

3798j
02-17-2015, 11:54 AM
Never have raced, although I've always had a strong love of the sport and sports cars...so I'm in that "Corvette street-car" group. But as a longtime owner (29 and 25 years), I still drive and enjoy motoring in them often (just as much as I do the Triumphs). As for socializing, give me the motorhead that loves them all - as I do.

https://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr268/3798j/20%20Automobiles/August2012008.jpg (https://s490.photobucket.com/user/3798j/media/20%20Automobiles/August2012008.jpg.html)

SaxMan
02-26-2015, 07:15 PM
No less of an authority than Richard Hammond on a recent "Top Gear" episode declared that the C7 Corvette was "the finest sports car to ever come out of America". "It's the Corvette you don't have to apologize for". Even Jeremy Clarkson was suitably impressed with the C7, and getting Clarkson to say anything nice about anything American is remarkable.

drooartz
03-01-2015, 12:49 PM
I saw that bit. Corvette beat the Prsche Cayman GTS around their track as well. Impressive.