PDA

View Full Version : EFI Megasquirt help available



Glen_B
11-13-2010, 10:26 AM
If anyone needs a hand setting up Megasquirt for a 1275, let me know. I've had mine running as a daily driver since 2008 and can assist with getting some of the bugs worked out.
I'm sure my setup is unique as will be yours, but the general trend of the VE and spark tables as well as the A/F target tables if you use a wideband sensor will be a big help.

Glen Byrns

Guest
11-13-2010, 10:30 AM
More folks should try MS. Where do you have your injectors.? Got pics?

Trevor Jessie
11-13-2010, 11:16 AM
Glen, I've started acquiring parts. I just need some free time to start work. Glad to know yours is still running well.

lesingepsycho
11-13-2010, 03:07 PM
Hey Glen,

You know my turbo efi is up and running on MS. But I for one would be interested to see your VE and spark maps if you didn't mind. I've still been having some small issues with tuning and seeing your setup could be enlightening. I'm not sure my O2 is reading properly which wants to throw off the "autotune" feature of TunerStudio. I have a registered version of MegaLogViewer so maybe a .msl (log) file would let me see the maps and some real time driving data.

Trevor and everyone else,

I'm be more than happy to share my stuff as well. :laugh:

JACK

Glen_B
11-13-2010, 04:16 PM
If this works I have a few other shots

https://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/Glen_B/Bugsy%20EFI/?action=view&current=bugeyeefi002.jpg

twas_brillig
11-13-2010, 08:48 PM
Glen - how did you address the siamesed port question? and could you (please and thank-you) advise as to what you're using for an intake manifold, throttle bodies, and where you put the injectors? And are you using a timing wheel or a feed off the distributor? And if Bigfoot is real, and where Elvis is living, and all the other great questions of our time?
Thanks
Doug

Trevor Jessie
11-13-2010, 09:37 PM
Glen didn't mention that his car is turbo charged as well. It is a suck through setup so he is only running a single injector, and last time I saw the car it was triggering the ignition via the distributor with a shutter eye (IIRC).

twas_brillig
11-15-2010, 06:44 AM
Thanks for the info Trevor - a turbo is sure one way to fix the siamese problem!!
Kellysguy: which Harley muffler are you using? comments on fitting and clearance and sound and such-like?
Re Injectors: stopped by at SDS/Racetech just outside of Calgary and bought one each of their large (takes standard (eg Ford) injectors) and small injector bosses (available steel or aluminum)as samples to see if it would be possible to fit them to our old BMW 2002 with dual side draft Mikunis and convert it to Megasquirt; tried holding them up to a gooseneck intake manifold to put a Weber DCOE onto a Spridget engine, and looks like that would work. Have a look at their web-page at https://www.sdsefi.com/ to see what they look like. Small shop (about 4 guys when we stopped by); really nice quality bits and pieces.
Doug

Guest
11-15-2010, 03:58 PM
Softail "bullet shaped" muffler ('07 IIRC). Center baffle knocked out. (it pushes straight out). I cut the factory flange off the muffler as the factory 1500 pipe will go right inside the muffler about 6" with a nice pressed fit. I then welded it up to the pipe. You can use adapters but I don't like that.

Not loud at all, but I am noticing 1275's seem to be louder than 1500's. I local guy has the straight through sports muffler on his 1275 and it's allot louder than mine. Mine is straight through now too, so you would think they would both be similarly loud but mine is quiet. Folks are really suprised to find out it's an "open" muffler. I don't know it it's the stroke difference or the fact it's a 7.5 to 1 motor but it is quiter.


A Harley muffler is too restrictive w/o punching the baffle out IMO as it is designed to flow half the volume on a bike at the same RPM's.

Glen_B
11-16-2010, 10:48 AM
I haven't yet managed to link in a pic, but I'll try again at the end of this note.
The intake and exhaust manifolds are custom made, I welded them together of mild steel and made to fit the Rayjay turbocharger. A short adapter "throat"links the turbo to a Ford 1.9l TB. A pair of Lucas 38lb/hr injectors are mounted in the adapter to spray into the turbo (wet-turbo setup). Only one injector proved necessary and the other is unplugged and kept as a spare. The ignition is signaled by a Crane Cams optical trigger in the dizzy which is locked down to prevent any advance (all handled by the timing table). A boost indexed fuel pressure regulator and LC-1 wide-band O2 sensor are part of the set-up.
The siamese port blather is not a factor as far as my spark plugs can tell, I read them from time to time. One of those theoretical points that make for great arguments but matter little in the real world.
If I can master photo insertion I'll post full pics and a link to a movie of it running so you can hear the growl/whine of the turbo/glass pack combo. Low and throaty.
Avonbar turbo pistons, 1.5 roller rockers, custom
APT turbo cam, BIG valves, Gilmer belt timing gear. Alum radiator, elec fan only.

Glen_B
11-16-2010, 11:56 AM
Did it! :banana: got the pics to work!
I'll try to figure out how to post screen shotsbof the MS tables and screens next.

https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/Glen_B/Bugsy%20EFI/finalefi.jpg

https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/Glen_B/Bugsy%20EFI/bugeyeefi002.jpg

https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/Glen_B/Bugsy%20EFI/bugeyeefi046.jpg

jlaird
11-16-2010, 12:43 PM
Oh well done in deedee.

twas_brillig
11-16-2010, 03:14 PM
Shoot! I'm jealous!
Any idea what your hp output is? acceleration times? Intellectual curiosity only at my end, I'm afraid.

Doug

Glen_B
11-17-2010, 12:57 AM
Here are some of the key tables
https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/Glen_B/Bugsy%20EFI/VEtable.jpg

https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/Glen_B/Bugsy%20EFI/afrtargets.jpg

https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/Glen_B/Bugsy%20EFI/spark.jpg

https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/Glen_B/Bugsy%20EFI/warmup.jpg

Billm
11-15-2011, 09:36 PM
OK guys- I am thinking about getting a Megasquirt (actually for my Datsun 210 wagon with 5-speed)-
Is this what I should get? Does it include everything that I need (except for the injector body of course!):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MegaSquirt-II-2-...ies&vxp=mtr (https://www.ebay.com/itm/MegaSquirt-II-2-PCB3-Standalone-Engine-Management-Kit-/330638911863?hash=item4cfb9d6977&item=330638911863 &pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr)

BillM

Guest
11-15-2011, 10:15 PM
Check out Glen's Garage first. Do some homework as there are a few differnt versions. You may want simple as possible or maybe something more advanced. Best bet is buying an assembled unit IMO. I'll probably do it one day. I've had the kit for 5 years now.

Guest
11-15-2011, 10:21 PM
Don't forget, you'll need pump, sensors, harness and all the other fixin's too. You don't "need" the relay board but IMO it's a good idea. You'll want the stim kit too if you're assembling yourself.

You may be able to section a Z car intake manifold to fit.

Billm
11-15-2011, 10:57 PM
Thanks for that shopping list, I figured that there would be more stuff needed.
I was thinking of using a Sentra intake (with FI already) since it is the same engine as the 210
BillM

Guest
11-15-2011, 11:01 PM
What year, E16?

Morris
11-16-2011, 12:40 AM
IMHO, don't waste time with the relay board. You don't need it. It's just something extra to buy and it looks like a science fair project.

Do invest in the wiring harness kit.

https://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/1239-megasquirt-wiring-harness-ms1-ms2-ms3-ready-p-43.html

I would gladly pay $90 bucks for all the time I spent building my own harness only to be unhappy with my work. And now all the wire I bought at the autoparts store is starting to rot.

The fuel pump situation can be a pain, but after several attempts I came up with a situation that works well for me. I have a small pump that feeds a large filter. The large filter acts as a swirl pot for the high pressure efi pump. Without this, my car would starve for fuel every time I pulled a hard corner with less than half a tank.

Do invest in a wide band O2 sensor. I use this one:

https://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/1239-megasquirt-wiring-harness-ms1-ms2-ms3-ready-p-43.html

Just be sure to never ever start the car with the O2 sensor unconnected to the harness. Your sensor will be immediately fried. And new senors are expensive. I am on my third. D'oh!

Get an old beater laptop with a serial port on it. I had one, until I sat on it. It worked great up until then. Now I use my "day to day" laptop with a usb-serial adapter. The usb-serial adapter causes all kinds of problems.

If you really want to build the Megasquirt itself for the fun of it, go for it. But if you are only buying the kit to save money... don't do it. You will be glad you bought the assembled unit. The project offers plenty of soldering opportunities without assembling the kit I assure you. I saw a pretty good deal on a MicroSquirt unit on eBay the other day.

Oh... also make plans to control your spark with the MS as well. Of all the mods I have made to my car, that has yielded the most performance gain (according to the butt-dyno).

Billm
11-16-2011, 10:10 AM
I have an A15 in the car- I was told that the Sentra just turned the engine sideways but if it is an E engine in the Sentra then It isn't a direct dropon injector manifold.
I was trying to get a bit more power and economy with the megasquirt but that may not be reality.
Thanks for the info- this is great!
BillM

Morris
11-16-2011, 10:16 AM
Hey Glen,

What are you using for injector bosses? Looks like a brass fitting of some sort.

JeffS
11-16-2011, 12:58 PM
I can second most of this info, as I have the MSII on my 1275. I may upgrade to the MSIII when I finish installing the twincam BMW motorcycle head, since it has an extremely short intake runner, basically direct injection into each of 4 intake ports.
The relay board is a visual disaster, not something you want others to look at.
I'm still battling tuning issues on my car in stock 1275 form, and a lot of it may have to do with timing chain slop, a poor injector choice, and possibly fuel pump issues. The thing starts randomly "skipping" and cutting out at higher rpms when driving, as if the fuel pump is cutting out or the injectors are too small. All the new changes by Spring may bring an end to those problems (and start a whole new series).
Thanks for all the pics - they are a great help!

Westfield_XI
11-16-2011, 01:15 PM
Jeff, can you post up what you think are useful links about the head conversion? I too have been considering going to EFI, even bought the kit, but have been concerned about the Siamese ports complicating things on a NA motor. One question about the BMW head: which side is the exhaust on?

Trevor Jessie
11-16-2011, 02:30 PM
Jeff and others have posted some info here: https://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?3,1898713

jlaird
11-16-2011, 02:32 PM
Boy, when Jeff comes on here looking for help. WAVE...

Guest
11-16-2011, 04:25 PM
I was trying to get a bit more power and economy with the megasquirt but that may not be reality.
BillM

I don't see why not. Everyone that I've heard so far says they got both.

What are you guys doing for relays?

nomad
11-16-2011, 09:39 PM
Well, I've been resisting getting into the 21st century but am curious. I know that programable fuel injection is mainly responsible for the power, economy,and longevity of the modern vehicle. My main problem would be the "progamable" part. I'm currently running a A15 datsun engine,single HS6 SU on a homebuilt manifold and 5 speed trans. I have very acceptable power and fuel economy right at 40MPG. I like this setup so well that I have collected the parts to do another. It will be an overbored A14 and I was thinking maybe supercharged. So, my question for now would be how much power and fuel economy gains could I expect with fuel injection. Anyone hazard a guess??

Bill, do that Datsun so I can copy it!!!

(BTW the 310 put the A engine sideways. Sentra's were all E engine's but an E engine will bolt up to a earlier trans. Block is about the same. Also there was a fuel injected A engine but I don't believe it was sold in the states.)

Kurt.

Morris
11-17-2011, 09:52 AM
Kelly, you only need two relays... actually, you could get away with one but not recommended.

Jeff, it sounds like the problem you are having may be "resets." Try putting a noise filter on the MS 12v in line. Also, double check all your grounds. Oh, and also, check your alternator output when you are getting the skips. The MS will reset if the voltage goes too high. I had an alternator with a bad regulator that would put out over 14v when I revved it hard. This would cause the MS to reset.

Nomad, honestly, if you are happy with the power and economy you are getting, installing an MS will probably be a lot of work and money for a non-spectacular gain. It's hard to beat 40mpg AND get good power. But if you want a challenge that will teach you a lot about how modern cars work... go for it.

Guest
11-17-2011, 11:11 PM
But if you want a challenge that will teach you a lot about how modern cars work... go for it.

I own a Midget cause I'm trying to forget.

BlueMax
11-18-2011, 07:08 AM
No AIR FILTER, isnít it kind of self destructive?

Guest
11-18-2011, 11:06 AM
Kelly, you only need two relays... actually, you could get away with one but not recommended.

.

I know but where'd ya put it? Is it just flopping around? IIRC, they make a box for the relay kit. I have all three. I'll have to check. As far as not looking at it, it can always go in the glove box or under the dash.

Morris
11-18-2011, 05:12 PM
I use these to mount my relays.

https://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/75280/STANDARD%20RELAY%20CONNECTOR/

I love em.

It's up to you whether you want to use the relay board or not. They are not necessary and they take up a lot of space, but many people report that they greatly simplify wiring. IMHO the pro-built wiring harnesses are cheaper, prettier and almost as easy. But if you like and want to use the relay board... get after it.

JPSmit
11-18-2011, 05:43 PM
I use these to mount my relays.

https://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/75280/STANDARD%20RELAY%20CONNECTOR/

I love em.

It's up to you whether you want to use the relay board or not. They are not necessary and they take up a lot of space, but many people report that they greatly simplify wiring. IMHO the pro-built wiring harnesses are cheaper, prettier and almost as easy. But if you like and want to use the relay board... get after it.

I use relay connectors too but mine come with tails too. very handy.

JeffS
11-26-2011, 05:54 PM
Kelly, you only need two relays... actually, you could get away with one but not recommended.

Jeff, it sounds like the problem you are having may be "resets." Try putting a noise filter on the MS 12v in line. Also, double check all your grounds. Oh, and also, check your alternator output when you are getting the skips. The MS will reset if the voltage goes too high. I had an alternator with a bad regulator that would put out over 14v when I revved it hard. This would cause the MS to reset.


Good info! There are grounds EVERYWHERE!!! I love grounds. They overlap each other in kind of a "spiderweb" network. Rendundancy is good!!!

I wasn't aware that 14V is the limit they can handle. Most alternators will pput out 14.2 or so. I'll check that out and see what I can find. Does MS sell the filters??? Electronics design is WAY beyond my field of expertise. I am going to go to a double shielded plug wire set and figure that will help reduce any RFI pollution. I also have a spool of shielded 2-wire for the sensors.

JeffS
11-26-2011, 05:58 PM
By the way, here's page 2 of the posting that lays out my twincam 1380 build:
https://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?3,1913633

Lots of photos and details. It'll be updated a couple times a week, as I get stuff done. Hopefully completed within 2 months.

Morris
11-26-2011, 10:51 PM
The "noise filter" is just a a radio RFI filter. I reused the one that was hooked to the old burned out radio that came with my car. You can typically pick them up at Radio Shack or your local big box autoparts store.

IIRC, mine was resetting when the alternator topped 14.8. So I was not being completely accurate when I said 14v was the limit. Regardless, replacing the alternator fixed the problem.

JeffS
11-27-2011, 09:19 AM
In my case, the car came with a replacement alternator that I know nothing about. I think its a Bosch derivative of some sort. Sounds like the same type of issue I see with Pertronix kits - they flake out at high voltage. I was contemplating using one of those tiny lawnmower alternators anyway, so I'll see what I can find...
Thanks!!!