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UmmYeahOk
02-02-2010, 08:25 PM
Ok, so I had my crank milled. It took them forever and when I got it back I was told that the rods were now .020 and the main .010. So I order bearings. Well I got a set off ebay and theyre apparently too small. There was some size difference some point in 67. So I order ones for a 68. Of course they were back ordered. Eventually they arrived and appeared to fit. We torqued them down to spec and each and every main bearing cap is now CRACKED!!! When removed, the plastic gauge wasnt even affected. After measuring the mains were fine, and I could have just got normal bearings instead of some fancy milled number.

Someone here might ask why we didnt measure ourselves in the first place... ...well, we're not professionals, they were. Do you question what a doctor prescribes you? No, you just take it, assuming they know what theyre talking about. If you die because they prescribed the wrong thing, is it your fault?

I dont know how much main bearing caps cost, I just Victoria British doesnt sell them. Anyone know someone that does. My husbands emailing Spit Bits right now

Brosky
02-02-2010, 08:52 PM
This might be a problem as the caps are matched to the block and line boring at the factory matches them perfectly. This is why they are not sold separately.

dklawson
02-02-2010, 10:05 PM
You can fix this but as Paul said, the caps are machined as matched assemblies when the engine is first built.

Unfortunately the fix requires that you first find a donor engine and/or a set of unmolested bearing caps. Take your engine all back apart. Take the block and new bearing caps to the machine shop (maybe not the one you used for the crank!) and tell them what happened. They will machine a bit off the new/donor bearing caps and bolt them to the block. The hole for the bearing shells will no longer be round but not to worry. They will line-bore the bearing caps and block at the same time to get everything back to the stock size. It's not cheap but it's doable. It's very similar to what is done when they re-size con rod journals.

I really, really feel for you. I'll inquire with one of my friends to see if he has any caps.

Banjo
02-02-2010, 10:08 PM
something doesn't add up. If the journals were not machined .010 under, and were, in fact, standard size, then putting .010 under bearings in there should have smashed that plastiguage so thin it would have been unreadable. Unless the added thickness was preventing the bearings from ever coming close to seating, and that's also what caused the caps to crack. And Paul is right about the bearing caps. this could get sticky.

GregW
02-02-2010, 11:14 PM
If the journals were not machined .010 under, and were, in fact, standard size, then putting .010 under bearings in there <span style="font-weight: bold">should have smashed</span> that plastiguage so thin it would have been unreadable.
I agree, it sounds like the caps were already damaged before torquing. Was the crank in the engine when it fell over on the stand?

Richter12x2
02-02-2010, 11:31 PM
No, the crank wasn't in it when the engine went over. The bearings were thick enough that when it was torqued (to 60 ft/lbs) they did this ^ (although not so dramatically) and didn't seat all the way. Since the plasti-gauge was at the top, the bearing didn't press down that far.

Anyone know of a reasonable source for a GT6 block? The only person we know of that has one is the British Parts shop near us that wanted over $1500 for a bonnet because 'the car is so rare'. :frown:

TR3driver
02-03-2010, 01:02 AM
Someone here might ask why we didnt measure ourselves in the first place... I bet you will, next time!

tomgt6
02-03-2010, 08:48 AM
Call Scott Harper at Team Triumph. 330-392-7176. www.teamtriumph.com (https://www.teamtriumph.com)

He is great to work with. He has sort hours but is always willing to answer your questions and has lots of parts.

UmmYeahOk
02-03-2010, 11:30 AM
Someone here might ask why we didnt measure ourselves in the first place... I bet you will, next time!

I SHOULDNT have to. I SHOULD be able to trust the word of a professional.

Wanna know why we do our own work? Because everyone else, the "professionals," lie, make mistakes, then bill me for them. And with things automotive, we're talking this happens 95% of the time. Why do you think we change our own oil? Because only 5% of "professionals" are capable. I HATE having to trust others. But I know sometimes you just have no other choice.

They can't espect their customers to own a digital caliper. If they did, then they wouldn't have told us .010

TR4nut
02-03-2010, 11:35 AM
Is a TR6 donor block a possibility here, or are the mains not sized the same?

hilsideser
02-03-2010, 12:04 PM
https://www.triumphspitfire.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&amp;qu ery=category&amp;category=US:+Parts+for+sale

You have my sympathies. This ad is in Spitifre &amp; GT6 web site. It's in your end of the world, maybe it's still available.

Cheers!

UmmYeahOk
02-03-2010, 12:06 PM
You can fix this but as Paul said, the caps are machined as matched assemblies when the engine is first built.

They will line-bore the bearing caps and block at the same time to get everything back to the stock size. It's not cheap but it's doable. It's very similar to what is done when they re-size con rod journals.

I really, really feel for you. I'll inquire with one of my friends to see if he has any caps.

Do you know roughly how expensive that would be?

UmmYeahOk
02-03-2010, 12:11 PM
Is a TR6 donor block a possibility here, or are the mains not sized the same?

found a tr7 for sale
https://www.triumphspitfire.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&amp;qu ery=category&amp;category=US:+Parts+for+sale

You have my sympathies. This ad is in Spitifre &amp; GT6 web site. It's in your end of the world, maybe it's still available.

Cheers!

no freakin way! Calling as soon as I hit the submit button

hilsideser
02-03-2010, 12:19 PM
...<span style="font-style: italic">life is good</span>...

UmmYeahOk
02-03-2010, 12:20 PM
Called the guy. He was busy and couldn't talk but said he has my number and will call tonight. Sounds like he still has it and has recieved a lot of inquiries on it as he wanted to make sure I was in the DFW area. Should I email him too, or wait for his call?

dklawson
02-03-2010, 12:27 PM
I think the TR6 block is different on its bottom surface and uses a different oil pan. I have no first hand experience with this, I just remember a friend of mine having to modify the crossmember under the engine on his Triumph 2000 when he transplanted a TR6 engine.

Sorry, I don't know the cost of line boring. It was common on very early engines (not Triumph specific). It was also something that was fairly common on performance air cooled VW engines. You don't hear much about it anymore and you would probably have to call around to find out who in your area could even do it. Still, it's a possibility if that engine in Plano isn't available or correct for your needs.

TR4nut
02-03-2010, 12:39 PM
Should I email him too, or wait for his call?

Email him a nice note - grab everything and make his life happy and yours too.

hilsideser
02-03-2010, 12:42 PM
If it twir I in your predicament; I was email, call, snail mail, drive over, run, send smoke signals or something...

Meanwhile, I'm heading down to the barn to gaze at my GT6 tub, sitting up on saw horses...

UmmYeahOk
02-03-2010, 12:52 PM
If it twir I in your predicament; I was email, call, snail mail, drive over, run, send smoke signals or something...

Meanwhile, I'm heading down to the barn to gaze at my GT6 tub, sitting up on saw horses...

I wish I were that close to restoration as you. Mine may look in better shape, but we still have rust repairs before we get it on saw horses

TR3driver
02-03-2010, 01:29 PM
I SHOULDNT have to. I SHOULD be able to trust the word of a professional. OTOH, if you are building your own engine, you SHOULD have the right tools for the job and you SHOULD use them.

BTW, a digital caliper isn't the right tool for the job. But a suitable micrometer can be had for less than the price of the bearings.

UmmYeahOk
02-03-2010, 01:47 PM
SUCCESS!!!!!
Triumph Enthusiasts FTMFW!!!!!!

Guy called me back. It's mine. I just hafta find a truck and trailer.

And people say GT6es are rare... ...more rare than my mustang, yes

Also, I called the shop I dropped off the crank to. You see I knew they shipped it off to someone else, I may of finally got the name too. They wouldn't give it to me when I asked for a referal. Anyway this shop wants me to bring in the crank so they can take their own measurements before talking with the shop they sent it to. We'll see how well that goes



I SHOULDNT have to. I SHOULD be able to trust the word of a professional. OTOH, if you are building your own engine, you SHOULD have the right tools for the job and you SHOULD use them.

ah, but if I had the right tools, I wouldnt need to hire a professional. :smile:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]BTW, a digital caliper isn't the right tool for the job. But a suitable micrometer can be had for less than the price of the bearings. [/QUOTE]
Are you a member on RX7club.com?

Just thought it was funny because someone had a discussion on this very thing with my husband BEFORE and after this fiasco.

TR3driver
02-03-2010, 02:04 PM
Are you a member on RX7club.com?
Nope, not me. But it's a very common lesson, one I learned the hard way when I was about 16. And it's been repeated in just about every article I've ever read on building an engine. Mistakes happen, and you as the assembler are the last line of defense in catching them.

If the inserts actually buckled as you say, then most likely they were the wrong inserts. The crank may be fine.

dklawson
02-03-2010, 02:17 PM
While a set of micrometers is the right tool for measuring crank journals accurately, in this situation a set of vernier or digital calipers would be enough to tell you what ballpark you are in. You can make calipers read almost any number you want... but they certainly are good enough to screen within steps of 0.010" in diameter to tell you what shells you need. After that, the PlastiGage will tell you the running clearances.

I'm glad you've locked in on a donor engine. I'll tell my friend you don't need the bearing caps. Was the engine you located also a Mk1? From memory, the heads are different (intake/exhaust port positioning) on the later GT6 engines so be careful when mixing and matching parts.

UmmYeahOk
02-03-2010, 03:09 PM
I'm glad you've locked in on a donor engine. I'll tell my friend you don't need the bearing caps. Was the engine you located also a Mk1? From memory, the heads are different (intake/exhaust port positioning) on the later GT6 engines so be careful when mixing and matching parts.

it's listed as a mk1 so hopefully it is

HerronScott
02-03-2010, 08:38 PM
Also, I called the shop I dropped off the crank to. You see I knew they shipped it off to someone else, I may of finally got the name too. They wouldn't give it to me when I asked for a referal. Anyway this shop wants me to bring in the crank so they can take their own measurements before talking with the shop they sent it to. We'll see how well that goes


You think they'll give you a refund for the error?

Scott

bgbassplyr
02-03-2010, 08:46 PM
As Prez Reagan said,"Trust but Verify".

UmmYeahOk
02-03-2010, 09:07 PM
Also, I called the shop I dropped off the crank to. You see I knew they shipped it off to someone else, I may of finally got the name too. They wouldn't give it to me when I asked for a referal. Anyway this shop wants me to bring in the crank so they can take their own measurements before talking with the shop they sent it to. We'll see how well that goes


You think they'll give you a refund for the error?

Scott
Well I took the crank and one cracked bearing cap to the shop. Theyre going to talk to the other shop tomorrow and give me a call. They called me a half an hour after we left but I didnt hear it, and they didnt leave a message (theyre closed)

They better refund me, but they would probably have to refund the shop I dropped it off at, and then that shop refund me, since theyre the ones I paid.

They technically should buy me a new engine (yeah, I know the one I found is a blessing, but I was looking at $500 engines + shipping) Heck, if its #s matching, they need to pay to repair that.


As Prez Reagan said,"Trust but Verify".

Youre asking me to believe a republican? ...who suffered from alzheimers and dementia? =)

Richter12x2
02-03-2010, 09:18 PM
While a set of micrometers is the right tool for measuring crank journals accurately, in this situation a set of vernier or digital calipers would be enough to tell you what ballpark you are in. You can make calipers read almost any number you want... but they certainly are good enough to screen within steps of 0.010" in diameter to tell you what shells you need. After that, the PlastiGage will tell you the running clearances.


We actually measured the bearing journals with digital calipers, several times because they're prone to being off by a bit if you get the diagonal at all. We also used them to read the inner diameter of the bearings as they came from the box, and verified the number was bigger. Then, I put the bearings on the journal of the crank and it actually had enough slack that I was worried they would be too big.

However, when they were snapped into the journals, it decreased the diameter (across the open end of the bearings.) Because I had so much slack, and the bearings fit the cap and engine perfectly, I didn't bolt them together without the crank to reverify diameter. With the cap holding the bearing into diameter, it was too small for the crank, but just by a few thousandths, so after laying the crank in, it still looked fine, although you could have probably stuck a .02" feeler gauge between the crank and bearing on the bottom, where you can't see. As I was torquing evenly to 55 lb/ft, I heard a little 'click' that was the mains breaking, but I wrote that off as the bearings seating, because it wasn't like a gunshot or anything. After the last two made the same noise, I assumed that was just what they did. After all, the 302 Ford main bearings didn't 'snap in' the way these did, they're the right fixed diameter to start.

So these were measured about 6 times before they went into the engine, with a digital caliper that was rezero'd multiple times, and each measurement was rechecked 3 or 4 times to ensure they were close. What got me was the fact that I believed what a professional machine shop told me, the fact that I didn't quadruple check them by bolting the mains in before the crank, and the fact that the Haynes guide doesn't include the measurements and tolerances for a crank with 2.3" mains, only the 2.0" mains. If the Haynes guide had listed 2.295-2.305" as the correct diameter, I would have known it wasn't .010 under when I checked it.

So excuse me for not being perfect. It's easy to say "You should have checked this or done this" but how many times would you really recheck the same thing? Because three wasn't enough.

hilsideser
02-03-2010, 09:33 PM
.......

dklawson
02-04-2010, 08:18 AM
Richter12x2, I in no way implied that you did anything wrong or should have had to check behind the machine shop. I believe you are confusing my comments with those of someone else.

My comments were only to say that calipers are good enough for screening diameters. If you took my comments any other way, I'm sorry, that was not my intention.

swift6
02-04-2010, 10:06 AM
So excuse me for not being perfect. It's easy to say "You should have checked this or done this" but how many times would you really recheck the same thing? Because three wasn't enough.

The original criticisms came after your wife stated that there was essentially no need to measure. Read the first post of the thread. The fact that you did measure, three times, was not even mentioned before your post. If that had been mentioned, I'm sure the measuring criticisms would not have surfaced. No need to be upset at people who did not have the whole story.

UmmYeahOk
02-04-2010, 01:17 PM
Richter12x2, I in no way implied that you did anything wrong or should have had to check behind the machine shop. I believe you are confusing my comments with those of someone else.

My comments were only to say that calipers are good enough for screening diameters. If you took my comments any other way, I'm sorry, that was not my intention.


So excuse me for not being perfect. It's easy to say "You should have checked this or done this" but how many times would you really recheck the same thing? Because three wasn't enough.

The original criticisms came after your wife stated that there was essentially no need to measure. Read the first post of the thread. The fact that you did measure, three times, was not even mentioned before your post. If that had been mentioned, I'm sure the measuring criticisms would not have surfaced. No need to be upset at people who did not have the whole story.

I appologize. When this all happened he was very upset with everyone including himself. He was upset that he didnt measure, so that's what I said happened. But I saw him with the caliper several times before measuring. I just confused "I didn't quadruple check" with "I didn't measure."

When I got it back, I'm pretty sure he measured but did not have the correct specs for this specific crank shaft. This is why the first set of .010 bearings didn't fit, and possibly why the shop assumed it was milled .010. I don't have any specs on either shaft with me so I dont know. Maybe someone here does and can ellimitate my theory. I also don't know where my husband got his specs. It's just a shame we didn't have them from the start

Anyway about the direct attack, I am assuming that my husband either meant to quote the micrometer statement because as I mentioned, this micrometer vs caliper discussion was going on in a different forum that he frequents. To defend the use of a digital caliper over the use of a micrometer would be defending his own opinion on the subject. This is why I believe either he quoted the wrong person, or used the quote feature as a way to announce to everyone involved in the thread that he did in fact measure.

TR3driver
02-04-2010, 01:40 PM
So excuse me for not being perfect.
Yer excused!
:laugh:

No one is perfect, we all make mistakes.

BTW, I am sorry for your misfortune. I was NOT trying to say "it's your fault" or anything like that; just trying to explain that you do, indeed, "have" to check.

"Professional" only means that they get paid for their work in money. Generally (not always), that also means they work as quickly as possible, so they get more money. Double-checking doesn't pay them, but it does pay you. Ditto the guy at the parts counter (and the guy that puts the bearings in the box, etc.).

TR4nut
02-04-2010, 01:57 PM
So when is the new block with bearing caps showing up? If I were a little further north, I'd offer to help throw it in my pickup!

UmmYeahOk
02-04-2010, 02:28 PM
Thanks but we also already had someone from the above mentioned forum offer. I decided to use my cousin instead. We are going to pick it up Saturday after cars and coffee (just assuming everyone here already knows what that is.) I want to pick it up as soon as possible just in the off chance he decides to give it to someone else or sells it. Triumph owners don't seem to be the type that would do that, but I better be safe than sorry.

Talking with him, he said hes had a couple gt6es in the past. I'm guessing this was the remains of a donor car he was using. I hope that I wI'll get a chance to see his project car. Even cooler if it's finished

swift6
02-04-2010, 05:13 PM
They technically should buy me a new engine (yeah, I know the one I found is a blessing, but I was looking at $500 engines + shipping) Heck, if its #s matching, they need to pay to repair that.


So pulling info together from two different threads we find that the only thing they did was turn a crank? Based on the numbers that you gave them they tell you the crank is now .010" undersized. You say they should buy you a new engine or pay to fully repair a block they did not break?

Since they did not have the block, could not check the alignment of the mains or verify if they needed to be align honed or not and therefore could not verify the correct size of the crank to the block. What about it is their fault?

Seems to me that the machine shop did nothing wrong. They had a crank turned for you.

Sounds as if you were trying to take some short cuts rebuilding an engine and it bit you in the ass. Did you have the rods machined for new bearings too or were you expecting no problems there either?

UmmYeahOk
02-04-2010, 06:02 PM
I did not know dropping off a block was a requirement. Seems to me that if they turn cranks all day long that means they know the specs and block is not needed. If they had any question whatsoever they could have asked for it. Had I left the crank and block there they would have just sent the crank to be machined and I would still be in this mess.

If they assumed it was the earlier smaller crank, measuring before turning they would have known there was a size difference. If someone mistakenly told them it was for a 67 mustang gt instead of a 67 triumph gt6 then I would expect they would notice that something was up because their measurements wouldn't add up. (ignore the obvious engine difference)

hondo402000
02-04-2010, 06:37 PM
I remember the first time I rebuilt an engine, pulled the crank out, thought I would be smart and put the flywheel bolts back in the crank, I must have tightened one too much and put a dimple on the other side of the crank where the rear main bearing went which also was the thurst bearing, that was after I had the crank gound and polished, put the engine back together and fired it up, actually drove it for a week and had this awful noise when the clutch was depress, so I ended up having to pull the engine again. the rear thrust bearing was destroyed, loads of metal in the sump, oil filter, luckly they groung the crank again. but all that time and money,,, so dont feel bad happens to all of us

Unfortunately every new project I end up learning another lesson the hard way

Hondo

Brosky
02-04-2010, 09:42 PM
I put a set of new 442 main bearing cap bolts, fresh out of the parts bin at the GM dealer where I worked back in 1970. I never checked the length, but I did check the part number and it was correct.

Too bad that the bolts were mislabeled. They were 1/4" too long. When I thought they were torqued to spec, they were indeed, but they had bottomed out.

Yes, I started the engine.

No it didn't run very long after I heard the noise.

Yes, I had to pull it again on my own time and fix it. It needed a crank and all new bearings.

No, I did not plasti-gauge the bearings because I was i a hurry and everything was new, so why shouldn't it fit properly?

I was a certified professional at that time. We make mistakes too by assuming that one part of an equation is correct and not checking the other. Ultimately, it was my fault for not lining up one bolt to the other or plasti-gauging the bearings. If I had taken 20 seconds to do that, I would have saved many hours of labor.

You can be sure I never made that mistake again.

swift6
02-05-2010, 05:28 PM
How many engines have you rebuilt?


I did not know dropping off a block was a requirement.

For the bearings to seat and crush correctly they need to be put into a perfectly round bores. Align-honing the block is an important step in ensuring that the mains are truly round, ensuring that the clearances around the entire circumference of the bearing bores will be consistent, and no stress from improper alignment will contribute to failures. This is usually a required step on an engine like the Triumph I-6 with only four mains as it is minimal support for six cylinder crankshaft designed to spin over 3,000 rpm. Through heat cycles and hundreds of millions of revolutions can force the bores out of round. This accounts for some of the bearing wear as well but it only shows up on the side with the spinning crank. That wear is from the centerline of the crank being shifted as the block shifts and the crank flex's.




Seems to me that if they turn cranks all day long that means they know the specs and block is not needed. If they had any question whatsoever they could have asked for it.

How many GT6/TR6 cranks do you think they turn on a regular basis? On uncommon engines, they may just take you at your word that you know what you’re doing and what you’re asking for. Especially if you insist that you do and they are only turning the crank for you. Did you give them any information on the crank? Was it right? You already said you had the wrong dimensions at first yourself.




Had I left the crank and block there they would have just sent the crank to be machined and I would still be in this mess.

If they had the block they probably would have measured it to see if it needed align-honing. After all, if it did it would be more work for them and that’s why they are there. They also would have been able to measure the difference between the bore in the mains and the journals on the crank and know definitively what size bearings would be needed.


BTW, if you didn’t have your rods resized you could be in for similar problems there with new bearings. Especially if you’re installing new rod bolts, for much of the same reasons. New bearings need new round bores. Or at least bores that are within the acceptable tolerances of round according to the bearing manufacturer.

swift6
02-05-2010, 05:30 PM
Forgot to mention that align honing usually costs less than $200. Boring new/different main caps to fit may or may not cost more.

poolboy
02-05-2010, 05:51 PM
UmmYeahOk, you said..
"We're a special type of hobbyists. We sell working engines and scrap none working ones."
How do you go about evaluating these engines, anyway ? Is it just a matter of whether they run or not ?

vettedog72
02-06-2010, 09:39 AM
I all ways use those little strips of plastic (plasta guage? {this stuff has to be fresh too}) to measure the bearing gap. It requires torquing the bolts to the spec. Calipers need calibration and as a hobbyist I never send them off for the service. So I use them as a reference, not as an accurate, absolute measurement. Also, using the plastic strips takes the math out of the equation. ha

UmmYeahOk
02-07-2010, 01:34 AM
UPDATE:
https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/ubbthreads.php/topics/650142


How many engines have you rebuilt?
Depends on your definition of "rebuilt" and "engine". I helped my husband build 2 wankel rotary engines. I didnt have to worry about any pistons in that one. I didnt really help with the 2.0 4 cylinder 2001 dodge neon engine, but I did see it progress. I witness my husband take apart a mustang v6, bmw i6, and a porsche v8. But by "apart", I mean the engine was not pulled, and the block itself was left alone in the car.

I helped my husband built my 5.0 mustang engine, which was a complete swap. Total hot rod stuff. 1986 block, performance cam, under drive pulleys, 2001 explorer heads, 1993 intake, whole bunch of other goodies. It was pretty reliable until it spun a bearing. Yes, you could say it was our fault, but technically this engine exchanged several hands before we got it, and one of the bolts wasnt torqued down to spec. It was one of those, we trust the guy, so why check. (actually my husband apparently checked a couple and since those were good, he assumed they all were.) It had 3,000 miles on it, so we knew it ran. One of the bolts was found in the oil pan itself. But since I knew something was up (gauge), there was no damage done to the engine. The crank was fine. After a new bearing set, the car has been reliable ever since. This is my daily driver. Its been a year since the swap, but then again, Ive only put 2000-3000 miles on it.


How many GT6/TR6 cranks do you think they turn on a regular basis? On uncommon engines, they may just take you at your word that you know what you’re doing and what you’re asking for. Especially if you insist that you do and they are only turning the crank for you. Did you give them any information on the crank? Was it right? You already said you had the wrong dimensions at first yourself.

I didnt give them any dimensions at all. When I found the wrong dimensions it was AFTER I got it back home. When I said what I said, I meant that if youre an oil lube, and some guy brings in a ferrari testarossa, and youve never seen one, let alone worked on one, you have no record of how many quarts youre supposed to put in it, and if you !@#$ something up, odds are you cant go down to autozone and get a replacement, I "assume" you are going to either ask the owner questions, or find some other way to research your answer.

I mean, thats not really a good analogy as normally youd just read the dipstick, but Ive heard of lubes that assume certain vehicles held certain amounts of oil, and added oil based on that belief alone.... ...even chains


If they had the block they probably would have measured it to see if it needed align-honing. After all, if it did it would be more work for them and that’s why they are there. They also would have been able to measure the difference between the bore in the mains and the journals on the crank and know definitively what size bearings would be needed.

I doubt these people measured anything at all. They are a performance shop that claim they work on everything but seem to specialize in mustangs. I only used them because they were the only shop who would even touch my mustang, because despite being a mustang, its apparently "special." I called around, asked tons of hobbyists/enthusiasts, they all recommended this place, and none of them knew a place that would machine a crank. I wanted my block hot tanked and I couldnt even find one. I even called a speed shop thats been around since the 50s, and they for some reason didnt even know one. Anyway, this shop would not refer me either, but offered to send it off for me. A little odd, but I guess they thought they were doing me a favor since I just happened to be there, with the crank in my trunk.

They can program a car... ...since late model vehicles have all the fancy computerized gizmos, but somehow they find ways to break things. Its odd, I know a great mechanic, but you dont want to use him for anything electrical. This shop is good with electrics, but you dont want to use them for mechanical.

They are so recommended that you have to schedule your appointments months on advance! Sure if youre a repeat customer, and youre having a problem, they'll fit you in, but man, 3 months in advance for a tune and dyno! They are so busy that if they received my crank with a tag that says .010, Im pretty sure they arent going to measure, assuming it is in fact .010, let alone do ANYTHING with my block had I given it to them.


UmmYeahOk, you said..
"We're a special type of hobbyists. We sell working engines and scrap none working ones."
How do you go about evaluating these engines, anyway ? Is it just a matter of whether they run or not ?

Well, lets see, the v6 had 167,000 miles on it. It was well maintained as Ive owned it for 10 years before it was pulled. It was VERY reliable. It was only pulled because no one respects a v6 mustang, and this daily driver was also a show car that has done a few autocrossing. Despite being such a GOOD engine, it was 145hp stock, so anyone who needed to swap in another motor typically just upgraded to a v8 anyway. It spent a year in my garage taking up valuable space. I almost scrapped this but thankfully it found a new home. $100

My husband flooded his neon engine, literally. There was no way to avoid this, trust me. It bent two pistons, but luckily didnt harm the cylinder wallas or anything else. He bought brand new pistons, head bolts, all sorta of stuff like that from mopar. He rebuilt that while swapping in another neon engine he found in a junk yard that cost him as much as the parts for the other engine. He rebuilt the flooded engine and kept it thinking he needed a spare engine around because he was going to turbo it, and being the "family sedan" wanted one in stock in case something happen. Since the car was the reliable "family sedan" he decided to just sell the turbo, and the motor. We had that thing for a year, thought about tossing that one too. Like the mustang, why that engine when there are RT and SRT engines available? No idea if it ran or not after the rebuild as we never tested it. Pretty sure it did thought. Sold it for $100-150 (dont remember)

Rotary engine. One was a turbo build, sold it with the car. $1000 My husband wanted to do a total restoration on this car so with everything stripped, without fixing everything that was wrong with it one by one, there was no way of knowing what was wrong with the car. So after the rebuild, the car wouldnt start. Since he rewired his engine harness during the exact same time as the rebuild, there was no way of trouble shooting what was wrong since EVERYTHING had changed.

The other rotary, NA, everyone wants the turbo motor, so why keep they NA? $50 for the aluminum housings, $20 for the irons. We kept two rotors for paper weights

When I said "special kind of hobbyists" I meant that we have limited garage space. We have a 2 car garage, which in most households, people park just ONE car. We park two. Due to all our special tools and equipment, I have to squeeze out of my mustang, and walk around the house and enter through the front door because I cant walk past the bikes and other crap to enter the door thats 5 ft away. Most hobbyists I know either dedicate half, or all the garage to just one car that they are restoring. Since we charish our daily drivers, we dont do this.


I all ways use those little strips of plastic (plasta guage? {this stuff has to be fresh too}) to measure the bearing gap. It requires torquing the bolts to the spec. Calipers need calibration and as a hobbyist I never send them off for the service. So I use them as a reference, not as an accurate, absolute measurement. Also, using the plastic strips takes the math out of the equation. ha

Thats what we tried to do. We got the plastigauge to work on my mustang but on the triumph is didnt even press, the bearings buckled

MDCanaday
02-07-2010, 12:05 PM
I have a gt6 complete car for 100$(total rat)but ran when parked.call me if your interested.7852342005.
MD(mad dog)

swift6
02-08-2010, 02:55 PM
How many engines have you rebuilt?


Depends on your definition of "rebuilt" and "engine".
Well by ‘engine’ I would mean an internal combustion engine so that would include the Rotaries but to keep it simple let’s stay with piston driven engines. To keep it even simpler we could concentrate on just the short block for discussion purposes. ‘Rebuild’, I suppose, could be as open to interpretation just as ‘restore’ is. However, I would define ‘rebuild’ as completely disassembling an engine. Properly cleaning and machining (block, crank, rods etc…) for new bearings, pitons etc… and then meticulously re-assemble. If you consider anything less a ‘rebuild’, then we are reading from separate books, and doing the same thing as skimming over rust with bondo, repainting and calling it body ‘restoration’. Doing less is a ‘repair’ or possibly a ‘refresh’ of bearings etc… Neither of which should be expected to last as long, or perform as well as a proper rebuild.
There are TWO critical surfaces for rod and main bearings. The crank journals are only one of those surfaces.


If they had the block they probably would have measured it to see if it needed align-honing. After all, if it did it would be more work for them and that’s why they are there. They also would have been able to measure the difference between the bore in the mains and the journals on the crank and know definitively what size bearings would be needed.




I doubt these people measured anything at all. They are a performance shop that claim they work on everything but seem to specialize in mustangs. I only used them because they were the only shop who would even touch my mustang, because despite being a mustang, its apparently "special." I called around, asked tons of hobbyists/enthusiasts, they all recommended this place, and none of them knew a place that would machine a crank. I wanted my block hot tanked and I couldnt even find one. I even called a speed shop thats been around since the 50s, and they for some reason didnt even know one. Anyway, this shop would not refer me either, but offered to send it off for me. A little odd, but I guess they thought they were doing me a favor since I just happened to be there, with the crank in my trunk.


Does that mean that they are or are not an actual “Automotive Machine Shop”, or are they just a performance automotive center? Do they do any of their own machine work or do they farm it all out while they do R&amp;R and tuning work? It’s great that you asked around asking other hobbyists/enthusiasts. Did you let your fingers do the walking? I found this list of Automotive Machine Shops with a simple yellow pages search of the DFW area.

Blaines Motor Supply Inc 2144264400 4700 Scyene Rd Dallas TX 75210

City Motor Supply Inc 9724842611 11670 Harry Hines Blvd Dallas TX 75229

Commercial Head &amp; Block Service 2146384774 2528 Irving Blvd Dallas TX 75207

Midwest Engine 2149481590 3502 E Kiest Blvd Dallas TX 75203

Shipp Rebuilders Supply Inc 2143885431 PO Box 271007 Dallas TX 75227

Trinity Casting Service Inc 2146314248 2126 Ruder St Dallas TX 75212

Accurate Engine Service, Inc. 8173354483 115 Arthur St Fort Worth TX 76107

Automotive Machine &amp; Supply Inc 8173359331 212 Carroll St Fort Worth TX 76107

Forbes Rebuilt Engines 8173327643 2712 White Settlement Rd Fort Worth TX 76107

Mike Smiths Machine Shop Inc. 8176266800 2463 E Long Ave Fort Worth TX 76106

Petes Machine Shop 8178313592 4103 E Belknap St Fort Worth TX 76111

Precision Motor Rebuilding Company 8179213800 3346 South Fwy Fort Worth TX 76110

Wess Machine Shop 8178310581 2320 Higgins Ln Fort Worth TX 76111

In my experience machinists are a funny breed and they don’t suffer fools lightly. If you ask for a specific job, they will do that job but won’t ask you questions. They are in a professional service industry that usually services other professionals. They can be a wealth of knowledge and information but you generally have to ask them, nicely. Machinists are definitely a group that is not afraid of firing customers. Your opinions of professionals not withstanding, some are actually very good at what they do and can be willing to help and tutor amateurs through a process. Good machine shops have plenty of business and getting and keeping the business of a hobbyist is not on their priority list. Building a good client/service relationship takes more than simply walking through their door. They also don’t usually subscribe to “the customer is always right” attitude.

Machining the crank for oversized bearings without at least checking the alignment of the blocks main bearing caps and journals, in my opinion, was a short cut that caught you out. It is quite possible that you would not have had the issue if the crank was simply polished and the same size bearing were used instead of oversized bearings. It would have been a band-aid repair and not a rebuild though.

Other common mistakes for amateur engine builders are re-using fasteners that may have stretched, especially rod bolts, and not understanding that bearing caps, both rod and main, are mated. Mixing and matching the caps doesn’t work well at all.

I’m not accusing you of making all these mistakes. I’m mentioning them so that we can turn this thread into a teaching one so that others may learn. I’ve made several mistakes over the years. We all have. There should be no shame in making them as long as you don’t continue to make the same ones over and over. You have to know, what you don’t know, in order to learn.

Twosheds
02-08-2010, 03:21 PM
‘Rebuild’, I suppose, could be as open to interpretation just as ‘restore’ is. However, I would define ‘rebuild’ as completely disassembling an engine. Properly cleaning and machining (block, crank, rods etc…) for new bearings, pitons etc… and then meticulously re-assemble. If you consider anything less a ‘rebuild’, then we are reading from separate books, and doing the same thing as skimming over rust with bondo, repainting and calling it body ‘restoration’.

You're pretty much spot-on with the FAA definition with regards to an aircraft engine, Swift6. Years ago, the FAA had no definition of "rebuilt" or "overhaul" and these words were used willy-nilly in maintenance records (logbooks). A maintenance record that stated that an engine was overhauled might mean that it was disassembled, cleaned, inspected, parts repaired and replaced as necessary, reassembled, and tested, or it might mean that it had a pretty coat of paint; the "Krylon Overhaul".

So the FAA made a regulation governing what must be done to an engine if the person making the logbook entry uses the words "overhaul" and "rebuilt".

This is from my lecture notes on the subject:

Records of Overhaul and Rebuilding (14 CFR §43.2 and AC 43.11)

If you make a logbook entry saying that you overhauled something, you must have:

1. Disassembled it

2. Cleaned it

3. Inspected it

4. Repaired it as necessary

5. Reassembled it

6. Tested it

All in accordance with the overhaul manual for the piece of equipment, using <span style="font-weight: bold">serviceable</span> tolerances and limits. If you don’t do one of these things, you can’t use the word overhaul in the logbook entry.

If you say that you have rebuilt something, you have to do 1 through 6 to <span style="font-weight: bold">NEW</span> (or approved over or undersize) tolerances. But only manufacturers of the product can rebuild it anyway. (14 CFR §43.3)

So just never use the word rebuilt and be very careful using the word overhaul. If you didn’t do everything the manual says to do during an overhaul, just say what you did.

TR3driver
02-08-2010, 08:01 PM
Well by ‘engine’ I would mean an internal combustion engine So my model airplane counts then?
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif


4. Repaired it as necessary

Seems like that still leaves a lot open to interpretation/judgement. What if it already worked fine, and hence it wasn't "necessary" to "repair" anything?

At one extreme of interpretation, I've never "rebuilt" anything, since I have never bothered to inspect absolutely every thing. Not much point in testing the block for hardness (for example).

At the other extreme, even adjusting the valves would count as a "rebuild", since it wasn't necessary to repair anything (and I always inspect and clean things up a little).

<span style="font-style: italic">"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." </span>

Twosheds
02-08-2010, 09:50 PM
4. Repaired it as necessary

Seems like that still leaves a lot open to interpretation/judgement. What if it already worked fine, and hence it wasn't "necessary" to "repair" anything?



If you determine that it doesn't need repair in accordance with the manual, you may use it over again without repair.

That's what "repaired as necessary" means. It only needs repairing if repairing is necessary. The overhaul manual will tell you the limits. Dimensions and whatnot. You still have to do all the other steps to it in order to use the words "overhaul" or "rebuilt" (if you're the manufacturer).

Adjusting the valves and not doing everything else that the overhaul manual requires to be done is not even close to counting as "rebuild". You have to do everything the manual says to do to use the word 'rebuild".

You would write "Adjusted valves" if that's all you did.

TR3driver
02-08-2010, 10:39 PM
and not doing everything else that the overhaul manual requires to be done Ah, but following the "overhaul" manual was not part of the requirements you quoted.

A requirement like "do all the steps specified in the overhaul manual" would be a little less ambiguous, but is that the Haynes or the Bentley ?
:devilgrin:

Not that it matters anyway, as I don't plan to be working on FAA-licensed aircraft any time soon.

Twosheds
02-08-2010, 11:27 PM
Ah, but following the "overhaul" manual was not part of the requirements you quoted.

Put your glasses on and look just below #6, Randall.

We could have had fun if you were my student!

TR3driver
02-08-2010, 11:58 PM
Put your glasses on and look just below #6, Randall.
Oops!

In the immortal words of Emily Litella :

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-family: 'Haettenschweiler'"> Never mind !</span></span>

TR4nut
02-09-2010, 08:47 AM
Not that it matters anyway, as I don't plan to be working on FAA-licensed aircraft any time soon.

But if you did, I recommend that you follow the manual! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

UmmYeahOk
02-20-2010, 01:06 AM
Thought Id do an update.

Since I now have a new pre KC5000 engine I can say that pre 5000 engines have a 2" main and post 5000 have a 2.3". This means that no matter what crank they thought it was, .010 would mean that it was either 2.290 or 1.99 depending on crank. For them to say 2.3" is still .010 means that whatever specs they had stated that it was supposed to be 2.31" So the idea that they assumed it was the wrong size crank for that year MUST be wrong, and they had to either gotten some BS spec, or their tool needs recalibration.

Anyway, the place I took the crank, one broken cap and bearing to seems really confused and requested that they see the block itself. I explained that I did not own a truck, and it would be pointless for me to rent one. Since I lived nearby they offered to come look at it. And each time I called it sounded like it would be next day. Since my husband works at home I told them that theyre welcome to come by any time they like. But its been over 2 weeks since they first suggested the idea. Ive only called twice. Next time I call, Im just going to ask for the crank back.

I was told this new engine had about 50k miles on it. At first I was skeptical because I know the odometer only has so many digits, but tearing it apart its pretty much in perfect shape. Bearings are fine, crank is fine. Just gotta confirm that the piston rings are good, which I already have a set of.

Guest
02-20-2010, 11:22 AM
I was told that the rods were now .020 and the main .010. So I order bearings.

First, I find it strange that a shop would turn them two different diameters as shops around here will turn BOTH to the same size to avoid any confusion when ordering parts...even if the other set of journals don't need to go down that far.

Second, I'm still trying to figure out what size the crank actually is now. I've read through the entire thread, and still can't figure it out. Is it standard, .010, .020? I've seen all mentioned.

The fact that the shop in now "confused" and wants to see the block might indicate that the crank is what it's was supposed to be, and eveything was fine and dandy, but perhaps the caps weren't put back in their original location pointed in their original direction. Also, tighening bolts down too far one one side will also make this happen occationally. Unless, the specs they are going off of are wrong.

Third, bringing the block in for a main alignment check DIDN'T contribute to this problem. Beating these poor folks up about tools, shortcuts, etc doesn't do ANYBODY any good. Don't you think they've suffered enough, don't you think they'll check ~NEXT TIME~ ?!?!?!?!

Mistakes do happen, but one thing I know, if Hap tells me he turned a crank to .010, you can bet your arse I don't need to mic it.

UmmYeahOk
02-20-2010, 03:29 PM
I was told that the rods were now .020 and the main .010. So I order bearings.

1) First, I find it strange that a shop would turn them two different diameters as shops around here will turn BOTH to the same size to avoid any confusion when ordering parts...even if the other set of journals don't need to go down that far.

2) Second, I'm still trying to figure out what size the crank actually is now. I've read through the entire thread, and still can't figure it out. Is it standard, .010, .020? I've seen all mentioned.

The fact that the shop in now "confused" and wants to see the block might indicate that the crank is what it's was supposed to be, and eveything was fine and dandy, but perhaps the caps weren't put back in their original location pointed in their original direction. Also, tighening bolts down too far one one side will also make this happen occationally. Unless, the specs they are going off of are wrong.

3) Third, bringing the block in for a main alignment check DIDN'T contribute to this problem. Beating these poor folks up about tools, shortcuts, etc doesn't do ANYBODY any good. Don't you think they've suffered enough, don't you think they'll check ~NEXT TIME~ ?!?!?!?!

Mistakes do happen, but one thing I know, if Hap tells me he turned a crank to .010, you can bet your arse I don't need to mic it.

1) no comment, thats just what was done, or was claimed done

2) we were told the rods were .020 and the mains were .010, but after the incident, measuring again, the rods were 1.857 from the original 1.877, so the rods indeed were .020 but every main was 2.30 meaning their original would have to be 2.31, so if everyones right, TRIUMPH was wrong, as so were the company in israel that makes the bearings.

The caps were put on correctly in order as they all were numbered for safety even though they laid in order for months, in fact, they have #1 still at thier shop. They were torqued to spec, in order, not just one side of the engine all at once. So unless the torque spec is wrong, everything was done by the book.

3) how on earth do you think they suffered? Look, this shop isnt hurting for business. You pretty much have to schedule an appointment months in advance just to see them. They only offer to help me out on the spot since Im repeat business. Since THEY are NOT the ones that did the work, merely told me the specs they were told, its not like Im jumping down their throat threatening legal action, since THEY did NOTHING wrong.... ...other than wasting my time. Pretty much all Ive done so far is explained what happened. Havent asked for anything yet, not even a refund yet. They offered to investigate without being asked, so Im merely upset that they arent.

The company that DID do the work however most likely HASNT even heard of this incident at all, most likely WILL NEVER hear of this incident, and WILL NOT hurt their business any as everyone in the metroplex will still send off their stuff to them, and if one dinky little shop that rarely sends stuff to them suddenly stops, no harm done. In fact, they apparently send stuff to several different shops, so since Im not 100% sure they used a specific business, there is no way that I could ever even bring it up to such company, or even bash such company, as I cant prove that I did business with them, especially since my receipt for the job is through the company that didnt even touch it

Cliff Notes: Only person suffering is me. Neither company could care less, as why on earth could they possibly be "suffering?"
__________________________________________

I have no clue why on earth he would need to see the block anyway. He, nor the company he works for, did any work on the crank. If it originally should be 2.300" then if its not 2.290, than its not .010 like THEY and I were told. If its 2.300" than it is not .010. If for some odd reason he thinks it should be 2.310, then, and only then, would he might need to see the block. But if that is the case, I would like to know where he, and the company that REALLY did the work, got their numbers from.

Twosheds
02-20-2010, 05:45 PM
Cliff Notes: Only person suffering is me. Neither company could care less, as why on earth could they possibly be "suffering?"

I could be mis-reading Kellysguy's post, but I think he's saying that the "poor folks" who have suffered enough are you and your husband.

vettedog72
02-21-2010, 10:13 PM
I'm in agreement with twosheads. You have suffered enough. Also, get any and every part to your motor out of that shop and go to a good machine shop. The new shop will be able to see the damage and know what needs to be done. If you can not suck up the injustice you apparently received file a claim with them for the damages they caused. After the apparent run around I would not accept any service they may offer. Life is short to continue a report with them and you need to move on to another shop. If you want to get back at the guys, get lawyer.

UmmYeahOk
02-22-2010, 02:26 PM
I'm in agreement with twosheads. You have suffered enough. Also, get any and every part to your motor out of that shop and go to a good machine shop. The new shop will be able to see the damage and know what needs to be done. If you can not suck up the injustice you apparently received file a claim with them for the damages they caused. After the apparent run around I would not accept any service they may offer. Life is short to continue a report with them and you need to move on to another shop. If you want to get back at the guys, get lawyer.

Can you recomend a good shop? Cuz that's how the problem all started. I asked several shops for their recomendations, shops that rebuild engines all the time. I've asked other car enthuiasts too, offline and off. If find it VERY odd how no one knew anything. Even an actual machining shop who we thought might could do it didn't know of one. But apparently they're out there, if the shop I went with uses two different ones.

They offered to send it out just like they would with any customer, but all I asked for was a recomendation. It's all strange. Everytime I asked they would never give me a name. Only now they "think" it might be a place. Problem is, I had the job done in October. What I also don't understand is why they are offering to help, when any normal person would just automatically place blame on the machineist, give contact info to the customer, and have them harass them for you rather than waste your time since time is money, which is why you can't send your engine guy to look at the block because you're so busy

Guest
02-22-2010, 09:50 PM
Yeah, I was talking about y'all and folks here bashing y'all about what you did and how you did it.

So, if STD main is 2.30, then all they did was polish it, so someone owes you some $$$ as a mislable is their fault. You shouldn't have to mic it as you ~PAID~ them to do it for you. Get a lawyer.

No one wants to give a name cause they want stuff sent through them to make $$$.

Sue the shop you brought it to, you'll find out what's up. There should be sevral places in DFW. I lived/worked there in the automotive industry 21 years ago and they had plenty shops around.

There is a guy named Gene Quick in the FT. Worth area. He mainly deals w/ musclecars. He would know of a crank shop but he might want to send it in for you as well. He might be dead by now too. You should be able to have custom main caps made for this engine as they do it for small block Chevy's and Fords. All you need is the right material and a ~competent~ machine shop should be able to make them for you, but it'll cost a little $$$.

Gene had a shop in Keller years ago, He might be in NRH or Grapevine. I can't remember. He is a character. You won't find him online. If you can find a serious Mopar guy, he should know how to find Gene.

Guest
02-22-2010, 09:54 PM
Here he is:

Gene Quick Motorsports, 817-838-6933

WARNING, he likes money !!!!

Call him and tell him what's up and you're looking for a machine shop to deal directly with as you're about to sue the third party you first delt with. Don't tell him who the third party is as he may know them.

Guest
02-22-2010, 10:08 PM
Call these guys first. It appears they do it in house. Call and see.

https://www.automotivemachine.com/mshop.htm

poolboy
02-22-2010, 10:54 PM
kelleysguy, did you say "get a lawyer" ? And sue ?
Judge Judy's more like it..

swift6
02-23-2010, 10:08 AM
I posted this list of Machine shops in the DFW area nearly two weeks ago. If they want to contact true machine shops all they have to do is call.

You can lead a horse to water...



I found this list of Automotive Machine Shops with a simple yellow pages search of the DFW area.

Blaines Motor Supply Inc 2144264400 4700 Scyene Rd Dallas TX 75210

City Motor Supply Inc 9724842611 11670 Harry Hines Blvd Dallas TX 75229

Commercial Head &amp; Block Service 2146384774 2528 Irving Blvd Dallas TX 75207

Midwest Engine 2149481590 3502 E Kiest Blvd Dallas TX 75203

Shipp Rebuilders Supply Inc 2143885431 PO Box 271007 Dallas TX 75227

Trinity Casting Service Inc 2146314248 2126 Ruder St Dallas TX 75212

Accurate Engine Service, Inc. 8173354483 115 Arthur St Fort Worth TX 76107

Automotive Machine &amp; Supply Inc 8173359331 212 Carroll St Fort Worth TX 76107

Forbes Rebuilt Engines 8173327643 2712 White Settlement Rd Fort Worth TX 76107

Mike Smiths Machine Shop Inc. 8176266800 2463 E Long Ave Fort Worth TX 76106

Petes Machine Shop 8178313592 4103 E Belknap St Fort Worth TX 76111

Precision Motor Rebuilding Company 8179213800 3346 South Fwy Fort Worth TX 76110

Wess Machine Shop 8178310581 2320 Higgins Ln Fort Worth TX 76111

Richter12x2
02-23-2010, 01:27 PM
I posted this list of Machine shops in the DFW area nearly two weeks ago. If they want to contact true machine shops all they have to do is call.

You can lead a horse to water...



I found this list of Automotive Machine Shops with a simple yellow pages search of the DFW area.

Blaines Motor Supply Inc 2144264400 4700 Scyene Rd Dallas TX 75210

City Motor Supply Inc 9724842611 11670 Harry Hines Blvd Dallas TX 75229

Commercial Head &amp; Block Service 2146384774 2528 Irving Blvd Dallas TX 75207

Midwest Engine 2149481590 3502 E Kiest Blvd Dallas TX 75203

Shipp Rebuilders Supply Inc 2143885431 PO Box 271007 Dallas TX 75227

Trinity Casting Service Inc 2146314248 2126 Ruder St Dallas TX 75212

Accurate Engine Service, Inc. 8173354483 115 Arthur St Fort Worth TX 76107

Automotive Machine &amp; Supply Inc 8173359331 212 Carroll St Fort Worth TX 76107

Forbes Rebuilt Engines 8173327643 2712 White Settlement Rd Fort Worth TX 76107

Mike Smiths Machine Shop Inc. 8176266800 2463 E Long Ave Fort Worth TX 76106

Petes Machine Shop 8178313592 4103 E Belknap St Fort Worth TX 76111

Precision Motor Rebuilding Company 8179213800 3346 South Fwy Fort Worth TX 76110

Wess Machine Shop 8178310581 2320 Higgins Ln Fort Worth TX 76111



That's super awesome, except the work was done months before you posted this list. So in this case, if you're honestly trying to criticize us for not using your list with your 'horse to water' comment, then I'm going to ask "Why bother dragging a horse to the trough if it died 4 months ago?" :laugh: Perhaps 'beating a dead horse' would be a more accurate equine based colloquialism?

UmmYeahOk
02-23-2010, 03:31 PM
Here he is:

Gene Quick Motorsports, 817-838-6933

WARNING, he likes money !!!!

Call him and tell him what's up and you're looking for a machine shop to deal directly with as you're about to sue the third party you first delt with. Don't tell him who the third party is as he may know them.
Thanks. I'll call when I decide what I'm going to do with the block


kelleysguy, did you say "get a lawyer" ? And sue ?
Judge Judy's more like it..
I can't stand watching her show. Yeah, the people are idiots but she's beats them BOTH up. I didn't watch this one episode but supposive this one local boy sued a driver when he hit this stopped car when he skateboarded right into her, even though there are signs everywhere stating that skateboarding wasn't allowed. I'm sure she chewed out the boy, but the driver was still at fault.


I posted this list of Machine shops in the DFW area nearly two weeks ago. If they want to contact true machine shops all they have to do is call.

You can lead a horse to water...



I found this list of Automotive Machine Shops with a simple yellow pages search of the DFW area.

Blaines Motor Supply Inc 2144264400 4700 Scyene Rd Dallas TX 75210

City Motor Supply Inc 9724842611 11670 Harry Hines Blvd Dallas TX 75229

Commercial Head &amp; Block Service 2146384774 2528 Irving Blvd Dallas TX 75207

Midwest Engine 2149481590 3502 E Kiest Blvd Dallas TX 75203

Shipp Rebuilders Supply Inc 2143885431 PO Box 271007 Dallas TX 75227

Trinity Casting Service Inc 2146314248 2126 Ruder St Dallas TX 75212

Accurate Engine Service, Inc. 8173354483 115 Arthur St Fort Worth TX 76107

Automotive Machine &amp; Supply Inc 8173359331 212 Carroll St Fort Worth TX 76107

Forbes Rebuilt Engines 8173327643 2712 White Settlement Rd Fort Worth TX 76107

Mike Smiths Machine Shop Inc. 8176266800 2463 E Long Ave Fort Worth TX 76106

Petes Machine Shop 8178313592 4103 E Belknap St Fort Worth TX 76111

Precision Motor Rebuilding Company 8179213800 3346 South Fwy Fort Worth TX 76110

Wess Machine Shop 8178310581 2320 Higgins Ln Fort Worth TX 76111



First off, with those locations my car might get car jacked while there. The other thing is just because they say they're a machine shop doesn't mean they do cranks. I know that sounds foolish, but it's true. Like I said, I already found one that didn't.


I posted this list of Machine shops in the DFW area nearly two weeks ago. If they want to contact true machine shops all they have to do is call.

You can lead a horse to water...



I found this list of Automotive Machine Shops with a simple yellow pages search of the DFW area.

Blaines Motor Supply Inc 2144264400 4700 Scyene Rd Dallas TX 75210

City Motor Supply Inc 9724842611 11670 Harry Hines Blvd Dallas TX 75229

Commercial Head &amp; Block Service 2146384774 2528 Irving Blvd Dallas TX 75207

Midwest Engine 2149481590 3502 E Kiest Blvd Dallas TX 75203

Shipp Rebuilders Supply Inc 2143885431 PO Box 271007 Dallas TX 75227

Trinity Casting Service Inc 2146314248 2126 Ruder St Dallas TX 75212

Accurate Engine Service, Inc. 8173354483 115 Arthur St Fort Worth TX 76107

Automotive Machine &amp; Supply Inc 8173359331 212 Carroll St Fort Worth TX 76107

Forbes Rebuilt Engines 8173327643 2712 White Settlement Rd Fort Worth TX 76107

Mike Smiths Machine Shop Inc. 8176266800 2463 E Long Ave Fort Worth TX 76106

Petes Machine Shop 8178313592 4103 E Belknap St Fort Worth TX 76111

Precision Motor Rebuilding Company 8179213800 3346 South Fwy Fort Worth TX 76110

Wess Machine Shop 8178310581 2320 Higgins Ln Fort Worth TX 76111



That's super awesome, except the work was done months before you posted this list. So in this case, if you're honestly trying to criticize us for not using your list with your 'horse to water' comment, then I'm going to ask "Why bother dragging a horse to the trough if it died 4 months ago?" :laugh: Perhaps 'beating a dead horse' would be a more accurate equine based colloquialism?

1) though what's done is done, I still asked twice after the fact
2) I revived this "dead horse" because I felt that an update was nessicary. Especially since my other thread seems to be mostly about France instead of the new motor

TR4nut
02-23-2010, 03:49 PM
2) I revived this "dead horse" because I felt that an update was nessicary. Especially since my other thread seems to be mostly about France instead of the new motor

Well, I still think EuroDisney is a mistake! :laugh:

swift6
02-23-2010, 07:04 PM
That's super awesome, except the work was done months before you posted this list. So in this case, if you're honestly trying to criticize us for not using your list with your 'horse to water' comment, then I'm going to ask "Why bother dragging a horse to the trough if it died 4 months ago?" :laugh: Perhaps 'beating a dead horse' would be a more accurate equine based colloquialism?

The reason I posted that list was because of the complaining about not being able to find a machine shop. 'Forcing' the two of you to take the crank to a third party shop. I put together that list in less than ten minutes of a simple Internet yellow pages search. Continuing to work with this third party shop, to me, seems like a continued headache, which from the 'update' seems about right even though they sound like they mean well. I was trying to help you find a better resource for future machine work and possibly a resolution or save of the original block, crank etc...

Mentioning the align hone (which is critical in the Triumph I-6 engines), the rod resizing etc... etc... was an attempt to educate you in some of the peculiarities of the Triumph I-6 engine. A voice of experience, if you will, from someone who has built several of these engines.

I brought the list back up, and the horse to water comment, because it seemed as if you were happier complaining about the third party shop with no interest in finding an actual machine shop. As to the locations, yes, machine shops tend to be in heavily industrial areas that may seem shady, especially in large metropolitan areas. You won't win friends with them by asking or stating that your car will get jacked by going to them. Your also right that not all of them will turn cranks, especially I-6 cranks as they are longer than typical V8 cranks. The list also contains phone numbers. I would be happy to call them for you, but then I might have to bill you for my time.

TR4nut
02-23-2010, 08:16 PM
If you think you need a machine shop in DFW, maybe just give a Red River Triumph club member a call and I'm sure you'd get a line on a shop that has worked on these engines. Or call up Jeff Sloan at British Auto Specialists (formerly TR Sales and Service, Haltom City), he's been in the Triumph business for eons - I bet he knows a good machinist.

Guest
02-23-2010, 11:51 PM
Call the shop I listed first, they show a crank grinder on their site. Ask if they do them in house or send them out. If they send them out, find someone else. Call Gene just to get a recomendation. Don't send the crank in through him. Thank him for his time and hang up.

I'd say there has to be at least 5-10 places that turn cranks in the DFW area, as we don't have squat here after Katrina and there still is a few places.

Don't say "mill" when you call as you "grind" a crank. I find the more inexperienced a customer sounds, the more likely the price will go up.

I googled "Fort Worth Crankshaft" and came up with the same list. If you can't find someone who does it in house with that, I don't know what to tell you.

Remember, it's not, "How much do you charge?", it's, "Do you grind cranks in house, or send them out?" If they won't tell you who to send it to for in house, thank them for their time and hang up and move on to the next #.

If you follow my suggestions, you ~WILL~ find what you need. It's what I did for a living when I lived there. Good luck.

Guest
02-23-2010, 11:53 PM
Call the shop I listed first, they show a crank grinder on their site. Ask if they do them in house or send them out. If they send them out, find someone else. Call Gene just to get a recomendation. Don't send the crank in through him. Thank him for his time and hang up.

I'd say there has to be at least 5-10 places that turn cranks in the DFW area, as we don't have squat here after Katrina and there still is a few places.

Don't say "mill" when you call as you "grind" a crank. I find the more inexperienced a customer sounds, the more likely the price will go up.

I googled "Fort Worth Crankshaft" and came up with the same list. If you can't find someone who does it in house with that, I don't know what to tell you.

Remember, it's not, "How much do you charge?", it's, "Do you grind cranks in house, or send them out?" If they won't tell you who to send it to for in house, thank them for their time and hang up and move on to the next #.

If you follow my suggestions, you ~WILL~ find what you need. It's what I did for a living when I lived there. Good luck.


TR4 nut has a good sugestion too....but he might want to send it in.

Guest
02-24-2010, 12:06 AM
Actually the term is "turn a crank" so the question would be, "Do you turn cranks in house or..."

Richter12x2
02-24-2010, 12:32 AM
Actually my wife likes to complain quite a bit. For my part, we've already got a second engine with a perfect crank, so the only irritating thing to me is that the first shop wanted to come look at the engine block about a month ago, and still hasn't managed to find time to drive 15 minutes to the house. (And still has our crank.) I understand that they're busy, but a month?

So we actually have a good shop that does head work and such, it was just the crank that seemed to be a pain, and like my wife said, we used this shop before (and were currently using them for something else) when I asked if they could do it, since we called three machine shops and engine builders who couldn't. When they said "Sure" we left it with them. The price wasn't bad, the work seems pretty good, all of the mains are spot on 2.3" +/- .0005" across the board. They just screwed us by telling us they were 2.290" and we made the mistake of assuming they knew what they were talking about.

So for my part, I'm done. My wife would like them to fix the engine, since it may be 'number's matching' to the car, but realistically although it's a cool little car, even if it is, the amount that's worth in higher sale price is probably less than the cost of the British Heritage Certificate cost to prove it, and she would never sell it anyway. Thanks to this awesome club, we sourced another engine for free that looks like it'll work a treat. I just wish the first place would come and do whatever it is they're going to do because I'm tired of having to leave the dead engine block and broken main caps in an accessible area of the garage (2 car garage with actual 2 cars in it) taking up space until they can make time to come over. Word just needs to trickle back to the machine shop to say "Hey, because you didn't measure twice and told us the wrong number, you bricked a perfectly good engine" so it doesn't happen to someone for whom a numbers matching engine will change the price of their car 10k or better.

TR4nut
02-24-2010, 08:26 AM
Yeah, I think hilsider (aka Mr Langford) deserves a definite attaboy for sourcing that engine so close to home. Attaboy hilsider!

Guest
02-24-2010, 05:43 PM
Have a lawyer send them a letter. That'll get that space freed up.

UmmYeahOk
02-24-2010, 07:51 PM
Yeah, I think hilsider (aka Mr Langford) deserves a definite attaboy for sourcing that engine so close to home. Attaboy hilsider!

Yes, indeed. A big <span style="font-weight: bold">THANK YOU</span> for that one.

Richter12x2
03-04-2010, 12:15 AM
They've once again assured us that they are coming, just as soon as they Google the directions. :laugh:

A friend actually had a good suggestion, I should be able to fit the block in the hatch of my 928, so I might be able to get it down there after all.

hilsideser
03-04-2010, 09:51 AM
...ouw!!! ...easy on that shoulder, 4nut!