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tdskip
12-27-2009, 09:58 PM
Hi guys - this car took a pretty good hit or jammed into a curb at speed or something.

The bonnet was removed at one point, so ignore the fit on that it is actually OK.

The door doesn't want to close right, and the whole drivers side from the firewall to the rear of the door has been pushed in.

The frame and outrigger seemed OK still.

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/tdskip_photos/GT6/GT620.jpg

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/tdskip_photos/GT6/GT627.jpg

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/tdskip_photos/GT6/GT616.jpg

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/tdskip_photos/GT6/GT632.jpg

This one is looking up at the frame outrigger;

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/tdskip_photos/GT6/GT628.jpg

What do you think?

Andrew Mace
12-27-2009, 10:15 PM
It's got possibilities, if the chassis is straight. Odds are the right shop could "square" up the body and then replace any sheet metal as necessary. The advantages of body-on-frame construction! Downside is the cost of a proper repair might be prohibitive.

tdskip
12-27-2009, 10:20 PM
Hi Andy - if memory serves the sills are considered structural on a GT6, right? If so do you think the body as a whole is tweaked or would replacing the sills be adequate (hard to tell from pictures I know)?

None of the glass was tweaked, and the inner floor on the side were the accident happened was straight still.

Andrew Mace
12-27-2009, 10:24 PM
If you count inner, intermediate AND outer sills, yes, they're structural. That's why I'd want to measure and square the body as necessary, then probably at least replace that outer sill (OE panels still available, last I knew, except possibly for the lower gasket retaining strip that holds a seal for the door bottom). I don't know if a shop might remove the outer sill first, or ???

Banjo
12-27-2009, 10:33 PM
If the main problem is that damage, not rot, I'd say it's definatly savable. I've seen far worse brought back.
Looks like a project I'd tackle if I were closer.
Maybe my viewpoint is different. Here in the rust belt, a fairly clean car is a jewel. body damage or not. you can probably afford to be a bit pickier in So Cal.

tdskip
12-27-2009, 10:34 PM
So how do you square a body? The frame looked straight, so is it a matter of "just" getting that area by the door to line up?

tony barnhill
12-27-2009, 10:42 PM
Anything can be restored if you want to throw enough money at it.

Banjo
12-27-2009, 10:53 PM
First thing would be to get it to a body shop, and have them put thier guages on it to see how much it's been tweaked. then they can straighten it, or you can do it. Or, probably what I'd do, is get the factory rerpair manual with the body measurements in it and roughly check it myself.
Look for things like the other body openings. how does the hatch work, or the other door? how do the gaps look around the rest of the drivers door? they may have just done a good job of caving in the rocker with little other damage done.
if the other things open hard, then it's a good possibility it was hit hard. if not, it's likley mainly localized damage.
Very hard to say just from the pics.

Banjo
12-27-2009, 10:55 PM
Localized damage may only require replacement of the rocker panals, whereas deeper damage would need to be pulled out on a frame machine at the body shop

tdskip
12-27-2009, 10:57 PM
Anything can be restored if you want to throw enough money at it.

True. Perhaps I should have asked if this can be restored cost effectively. It was "just" a matter of removing and then reinstalling new inner/outer sills it would seem like it was a possibility.

tdskip
12-27-2009, 10:58 PM
Look for things like the other body openings. how does the hatch work, or the other door? how do the gaps look around the rest of the drivers door? they may have just done a good job of caving in the rocker with little other damage done.

All the other gaps are good actually. Other door and hatch and bonnet are OK.

Banjo
12-27-2009, 11:25 PM
After reviewing the pics again, it really looks like you could get away with just a panal replacement. It dosen't look real deep.
Disclaimer: Pics can be decieving. My TR4A looked GREAT in pics, but it was a total bomb. Proceed at your own risk.

DNK
12-27-2009, 11:26 PM
Tom, where the heck you gonna get time to do that one too?

UmmYeahOk
12-27-2009, 11:57 PM
If youre a checkbook restorer, then no. If you plan on doing the work yourself, then yes. I would have never gotten my GT6, if my husband didnt have some interest in welding (novice, but pretty good)

Then again, my opinion really shouldnt count. Ive spent over $4000 trying to restore a unibodied BMW that had a cracked firewall, split frame, cracked rocker panel and some idiot spot welded part of a different car on without measuring or realizing that it doesnt fit. (note that these vehicles can be had for $500-$3000)

I cant seem to find it, but I got two rocker panels from ebay for $180 shipped. I dont know if he still sells them. But I do have his email address. You probably just need to one. I dont know about the rear. Could use a new piece, or pulled out and bondoed.

The door, Im assuming does not fit due to rubbing issues of the damage done to the other panels. I had this probably with the above mentioned BMW. I know the door had been pushed in, and replaced, but simply would not close right. When I have the frame pulled, it would close. Only rubbing issue I had was with the front fender, and thats spimply because the welder didnt mesure, or didnt even care that coupe fenders DONT FIT convertibles (at least on that car anyway).

tdskip
12-28-2009, 03:15 PM
Some more pictures taken this AM;

Passenger side door is off;

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/tdskip_photos/GT6/P1010541-1.jpg

Close up of the firewall on the side that got hit;

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/tdskip_photos/GT6/P1010543.jpg

Looking at the far side / impact side from below;

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/tdskip_photos/GT6/P1010542.jpg

Impact on the a-arm mounting point on the frame;

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/tdskip_photos/GT6/P1010545.jpg

Unrelated to the accident, but is this gap at the top of the roof/windshield join normal?

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/tdskip_photos/GT6/P1010546.jpg

bob67bgt
12-28-2009, 03:33 PM
Looks like the passenger side quarter panel has been replaced also. The welds are not as the factory would have done them. The way the roof and windshield fit i would definatly take it to a good frame shop for a pull before anything is removed. And have a good door to supply them so the fit can be checked. Then you can replace the rocker panel. I would not pay much for that car. Be sure you could get it for what the parts are worth and if you can fix it right then its a bonus. Bob

tdskip
12-28-2009, 04:23 PM
Ah, so the input tweaked the roof as well?

Oh well.

If anyone wants her as a parts car let me know - send me a PM and I'll let you know that the sellers are asking for her. It's not much, under $1,000.

You could probably flip the parts for a good net, but I've got some other projects I should probably focus on....grin.

UmmYeahOk
12-28-2009, 05:34 PM
The roof/windsheild issue: I'm pretty sure the windshield pops right off and on the bottom and top rubber seals go. It appears that this rubber was torn off, if not missing completely. Considering the age of the rubber I would doubt that's what happened. My mki looks like that. What rubber that's left is hard to notice and was painted white with the rest of the exterior.

angelfj1
12-28-2009, 07:28 PM
BANJO!!!

Hey Ben How ya doing man! Long time, etc. Shoot me a pm if you get a chance.

Frank

tdskip
12-28-2009, 09:04 PM
If I knew that all it takes a crappy GT6 to bring him back I would have found another one much earlier... LOL.

Andrew Mace
12-28-2009, 09:10 PM
The roof/windsheild issue: I'm pretty sure the windshield pops right off and on the bottom and top rubber seals go. It appears that this rubber was torn off, if not missing completely.... :iagree:

Since the windshield frame is completely removable, this doesn't appear to be a major problem. So far, the most serious damage I see is to the chassis where the lower a-arm mounts. That will merit some serious attention, and the chassis would need to be checked for straightness because of that.

Given how solid the car appears to be, I still suspect that this is a very restorable car!

hilsideser
12-28-2009, 11:09 PM
:iagree:
absolutely!

tdskip
12-29-2009, 09:33 AM
Thanks guys. So does anyone know of a frame straightening place they can recommend in SoCal?

Anyone been there / done that experience to share in straightening a Spitfire or GT6+ frame?

trrdster2000
12-29-2009, 04:45 PM
Skip, Does Spite 6 come to mind, first thing I thought of. If it has the overdrive I would say it's worth the money, otherwise a bit high to start off with.

I checked the warehouse and lower front panels for the TR4/6 are gone, have a top front left and complete rear for a 4, (B pillar back)some rust holes in top of inside fender, and complete rear for a 6,'73 on ("B" pillar back)very good.

Wayne

hilsideser
12-30-2009, 07:35 PM
TD - cruise this site and this thread. I've been "lost" here for hours at a time. This is what "could be done". My GT6 project is going to be "very ambious" by most measures, so I don't see anything that couldn't be dealt with on the GT6 you've shown us.

https://www.club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl?m-1229790537/s-0/

tdskip
12-30-2009, 11:30 PM
Hi guys - I got a quote for $800 - $1000 to get the frame straightened out. Still mulling it over...

I'm going to start a poll on this in a minute to help make a decision - should be interesting :-)

Thanks!

hilsideser
12-31-2009, 01:33 AM
I'd say you could pick up a frame for free to fairly cheap, if it proved you needed one. I have two Spit frames here. Drive by and I'll load one for you!

UmmYeahOk
12-31-2009, 02:01 PM
My GT6 was $2300 and came with almost $1000 worth of brand new, uninstalled parts. I would say the cost of frame repair totals the car, considering that you have all that exterior work, and paint... ...not to mention if you plan on doing a full restoration on it. Does it even run?

But yeah, if you can get an awesome deal on a spitfire frame, go for it. Theyre the same, right? Wasnt sure if there were any slight modifications done to the GT6 frames.

Andrew Mace
12-31-2009, 02:20 PM
There are some changes between the two, but nothing that can't be added to the Spitfire frame to make it into a GT6 "Rotoflex" frame...at a price, of course. Add to that the labor of swapping the body over, etc., and it might be more cost-effective to correct and repair any damage on the original frame?

UmmYeahOk
12-31-2009, 04:17 PM
at a price, of course. Add to that the labor of swapping the body over, etc., and it might be more cost-effective to correct and repair any damage on the original frame?

I think the real thing is to consider all the repairs that CANNOT be done at home. Checkbook restoration can be very expensive. And while I understand that there are some things that one would rather trust a professional with, the need to take in mind all the help they may need.

$1000 for the car
$1000 for frame repair
$1000 for paint
$1000 engine repair
$1000 for body repair

I'm just making up numbers, but if such things need professional restoration yours looking at a $5000 car here, maybe more since I didnt consider interior, rechroming, and other misc.

So I go back to what I said earlier, if youre going to do the work yourself, more power to you. If you plan on hiring someone else for the bulk of the work, youd be better off spending more for one thats previously been restored.

$1000 car + $1000 frame repair, may actually be a good deal, if thats all they plan on paying for. My car appeared to be in excellent shape. Apparently it had been restored in the early 90s, but parked outside with no weather stripping, it quickly turned to heck. Both floor boards, rocker panels, rear fenders, and rear valence all had rust damage. Some of which had been repaired simply by slapping bondo over it. One actually had metalwork, but tack welded, so the seam was only covered by bondo, and more rust formed around the repair.

So, IMO, on any GT6, such damaged panels seen in the pics would need to be replaced anyway, on any gt6 of that age. So, in a way, my GT6 was just as expensive, only because my frame didnt need repair.