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hondo402000
11-28-2009, 09:28 PM
Tomorrow the painting begins, the underside of the bonnet gets its base coat and clear coat. Pics comming

Hondo

Brosky
11-29-2009, 06:51 AM
Well?????

It's 6:45AM and no pictures yet???

tdskip
11-29-2009, 12:08 PM
Well?????

It's 6:45AM and no pictures yet???

And I thought <span style="font-style: italic">I</span> was impatient....LOL.

hondo402000
11-29-2009, 04:59 PM
Ok Brosky
here are 2 pics, one of the light I am using, the kind that lights up parking lots, and one of the base coat on the hood, the pic after the clear coat for some reason was really blurry, looks like I need a new camera, seems a lot of pics are comming out blurry

Hondo

hondo402000
11-29-2009, 05:00 PM
the light.. the booth is working out fine, the fan really clears the booth good too.

Brosky
11-29-2009, 06:05 PM
Looks good. Make sure that your setting didn't go to macro or off auto focus.

DrEntropy
11-29-2009, 07:31 PM
Sounds like mebbe there's some ~fumes~ catchin' up to th' photographer? :shocked:

JOKING!!!

danstr6
11-30-2009, 12:58 AM
If I lived near you, I would come help. Love painting cars. Good luck and keep the pictures coming.

hondo402000
11-30-2009, 10:02 AM
Pic of Bonnet underside with clear and overnight cure. It might be next weekend before I can paint the top side, finders and boot, still getting the doors right,

HOndo

Brosky
11-30-2009, 10:24 AM
Look at the paint coverage in the holes and slots in the hood from all angles. If you don't get a full spray in there, you will see the primer color when the hood is open.

I'm sure that you've guessed how I know that to be true.

dklawson
11-30-2009, 12:32 PM
Brosky, is that an area that can be hit with a touch-up gun or an air brush? On my projects I'll often use an air brush to put down a "pre coat" in tricky areas like that and on seams and edges.

tdskip
11-30-2009, 01:25 PM
Or even color match rattle can paint if the normal gun can't get in there...

trrdster2000
11-30-2009, 02:55 PM
Hondo, don't try to get in there with a wide spray. Cut it down to a needle, reduce pressure and walk around in a circle for each hole. If you can get to it now before the paint is fully cured you could only have to mist a clear coat over that area, then buff it out when all cures.

Where in Charlotte are you, I might be able to get there and help, if you think you need any, that is. You might know more than me, who knows???

Wayne

pware
11-30-2009, 04:18 PM
Hey Hondo. I work up town. If your in the shop one day this week shoot me line. I am getting ready to try my first paint job. Would love to see it for some inspiration.

bgbassplyr
11-30-2009, 05:45 PM
Well, hey, if you're going to have a painting party, let me know when and where. Would love to meet some of the others here in Charlotte. Oh, and I have painted four or five cars over the years. Also have some air brushes if you need them.
Do I sound too needy?

Jim

Brosky
11-30-2009, 07:30 PM
My will be done with an airbrush in the spring. I never noticed it and neither did the paint shop, but when the hood is up, the polished stainless radiator shroud shows a few that have "dark circles" inside. With a stock black shroud, I never would have seen it.

hondo402000
12-01-2009, 06:42 AM
Wayne,Pware and Jim, I actually live in the south park area, but my office is in indian trail, thats where the painting is being done. I looked at the holes and I seem to have gotten good coverage in the holes. I was thinking of actually getting some board like what the radiator shroud is made of or simular, cutting out pieces to match the holes and gluing them in. Guys check your pm

HOndo

hondo402000
12-04-2009, 09:49 PM
more painting on sat 12-5 pics forth comming

H

Tom74TR6
12-05-2009, 06:20 PM
That was the hardest part for me to paint. Watch for runs when spraying inside the cavities. It is impossible to sand anything on the inside of those holes. I will end up covering the holes and center sections with some sort of decorative cover.
Tom C
https://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk199/Tom74tr6/Painting/paint002.jpg

hondo402000
12-06-2009, 07:41 AM
well the painting has come to a screeching halt, I sprayed the fenders, bonnet and door edges and seems somehow I have something that is not compatable with the the dupont base coat, when I sprayed it the paint wrinkled up is some spots. the only thing I can figure at this point is when I was sanding and sanded back to bare metal I used a can of duplicolor self etching prime on those spots. Every thing else was recommended by the paint shop. Every pannel had dried and cured at least a week after the last primer was applied. I have a test pannel that I sprayed the dupli color on and will spray it with the base coat and see if it wrinkles up, and If it does I will have to either sand every think back or try to figure out where all the spots are. BUMMER

Hondo

Brosky
12-06-2009, 08:30 AM
That used to happen when lacquer thinner attacked and enamel paint under it. With today's compounds, I'm not sure of the cause, but it's not right, so you have to stop now.

Tom74TR6
12-06-2009, 09:24 AM
Hondo,
I had the same problem with my inner fenders but I used Rustoleum primer underneath. Had to sand back to the metal, lost an entire cup of paint.
I used Duplicolor metal etching primer on all of my exterior panels with no issues.
I am not sure where you are buying your primer but be aware that Autozone has switched from Duplicolor to Rustoleum branded products and they are crap!
I have to drive to Advanced Auto find Duplicolor products.
Tom C

hondo402000
12-06-2009, 12:41 PM
Well the good news, Dupli color metal etching primer is the problem. I sprayed the pannel I prepared with the dupli color and then sprayed the base coat and within about 15 sec the base coat started cracking,. it was fine with the SEM primer. So now I have to figure out where I primed the spots with duplicolor its very apparent where the areas are when the BC is applied but the whats still not painted is the issue. I am guessing I will basically just have to sand back down and start again

Hondo

dklawson
12-06-2009, 01:07 PM
You may find that your top coat system has a compatible primer/sealer that you can spray over the panels you have already prepped. Of course this will mean a bit more block sanding but it may prevent you from having to go back and find all the Duplicolor and sand it off.

hondo402000
12-06-2009, 01:26 PM
Hi Doug
well I actually sealed the pannels before I sprayed them and it didnt help. however the sealer directions are, spray one medium coat let flash for 15-20 min and then apply top coat, and if you let the sealer cure overnight you have to lightly scuff sand and then apply top coat, now would letting the sealer cure overnight help??? dont know that could be something to investigate. I will consult with the paint guy tomorrow, but I thought I could buy the cheapest color Base coat, spray each pannel and use that like a guide coat as a way to find the trouble spots, fix, prime and paint. I really dont wont to have to take it to bare metal again

Hondo

tdskip
12-06-2009, 02:01 PM
Are the sealer/primer/top coat all the same family of paint? I thought that generally speaking it was a good idea to take that approach to help prevent this sort of thing.

Bummer to hear of it, but at least it was immediate rather than something that happened after a couple of months.

Hang in there!

hondo402000
12-06-2009, 02:21 PM
all the products I am and will be using are of the dupont family except the duplic color primer,(big mistake) and as far as I know there is nothing that will cover the duplic color primer and keep it from cracking the base coat. From what I have observed is when the base coat is applied it actually disolves the primer and migrates into them and as long as the chemicals are compatable you dont get cracking they just melt into each other, but when they are not compatable the top coat melts the primer but its like oil and water that dont mix so they separate and you get cracking

just my opinion, however In the future if I ever use a non family product I will waste 10 dollars of paint and time to see if there is an issue


Live learn repeat
HOndo

trrdster2000
12-06-2009, 02:48 PM
Hondo, check your PM

Wayne (give me time to get there)

pware
12-06-2009, 04:36 PM
Hey Hondo. Got caught up doing some painting of my own this weekend except it was the living room. Not exacley what I had in mind this week end but it looks good now. Sorry to hear about the painting problems. Keep us posted on what you find out.

dklawson
12-06-2009, 10:00 PM
Hopefully the DuPont paint shop will have an answer for you. As was mentioned earlier, this sort of incompatible paint problem was common when lacquer and enamel were the two main systems. Surely DuPont will have some form of coating you can spray to seal the Duplicolor without it affecting the top coat... and without having to go back to bare metal. Be sure to post back with what they say.

hondo402000
12-07-2009, 10:49 AM
I just got finished speaking with the dupont person, and here is what I found out. There is no primer that Dupont makes that will stop the wrinkling effect due to incompatable products, so unless I know exactly where the duplicolor is and sand it off he thought my suggestion of spray a base coat on the car but no clear coat. Sand out all the spots where the wrinkles are and I should be good to go. As far as the pannels that are painted, Sand out the bad spots, Wet sand entire pannel again and reshoot. So thats the route I am going. but I am going to finish one part at a time. and ps the paint guy had problems shooting this past weekend too

Hondo

DrEntropy
12-07-2009, 11:33 AM
How frustrating. Went thru about the same experience when it was lacquer/enamel incompatibility. Swore to never mix diff'rent products again. I stayed with PPG. Now it's epoxy primers only and indicator coat with a mist of Krylon. That has been fine (so-far).

I hate doin' bodywork and so paint infrequently. When it comes time to do another I go to the paint supply house selling to local rodders and custom shops for advice on what's new and tested. Last one was this MGB and it came out acceptably well for a "driveway" re-do. All Valspar products this time.

tdskip
12-07-2009, 11:43 AM
Sounds like there is no other way, so I guess not much to do but get on with it. BTW - I wasn't being critical with the "keep it in the family" comment, I was just passing along what a local paint shop told me.

Personally, I'm expecting this exact sort of thing to happen when/if the time for paint ever comes around on mine since who knows what has been applied.

Again, sorry if any of my comments came across the wrong way. We're all pulling for you Hondo!

hondo402000
12-07-2009, 01:41 PM
No offense taken, I knew to stay within the family of chemicals, but I didnt want to drive an hour round trip to pick up a spray can of primer so I went to the local auto parts store, read the label and it said "compatable with MOST topcoats" I should have sprayed a test pannel. I have sprayed Nason primer surfacer over the duplicolor with no problems so I thought it would be ok. But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Another member has offered a solution, Barcoat a barrier product so I think I will take the offer, spray duplicolor on a piece of sheet metal, spray the barcoat, then topcoat and see if it helps, I am just afraid to add another paint manufacturer to the mix.

dklawson
12-07-2009, 04:03 PM
Be sure to let us know how the Barcoat works. If it is OK, are you planning on shooting the color coat on top of that or will you put down another coat of DuPont primer?

trrdster2000
12-07-2009, 04:53 PM
Hondo, sent you a PM with a phone number to a store in Charlotte. You just shoot right over the Barcoat, and it's made in England, they knew we would have trouble shooting over what I think is cellulose.
If that doesn't work for you, come and get mine.

Wayne

hondo402000
12-07-2009, 08:11 PM
thanks Wayne, right now I will have to experiment with the barcoat, so get a pannel, spray the duplicrap, I mean duplicolor, then barcoat then another spot, duplicolor, primer surfacer then barcoat, then third spot duplicolor, primer surfacer, then sealer then barcoat,

and see how they all fair and use the one that works with the least amount of material, I did sand down the drivers door, metal etch and one coat of Primer surfacer, well at least the second time around it should go faster cause I got a lot of practice and I know where all the low spots are

Hondo

rooster
12-07-2009, 11:16 PM
Hi Hondo,

If you test that barcoat stuff, I'd suggest that you let your test panel with the duplicolor/barcoat/primer surfacer/colorcoat/clear sit under a heat lamp for a while to see if it will peel off. Back in the 90's Chrysler used a water based primer. Had it on my truck, it was ok until I drove through Kamloops when it was like 110 degrees, and all the paint peeled off my truck due to the heat.

cheers.

hondo402000
12-08-2009, 06:53 AM
will do, doenst look like I will be paint the actural car any time soon any how. the fenders and bonnet will have to sand all the way back down, so its only the boot, rear fenders, door jams and rear end thats not been painted yet

thanks

Hondo

DNK
12-08-2009, 11:19 AM
Hondo -that wrinkling of the paint is called Alligatoring. And as you found out it is usually associated with 2 materials that don't like each other.

billspit
12-08-2009, 12:41 PM
Hondo -that wrinkling of the paint is called Alligatoring. And as you found out it is usually associated with 2 materials that don't like each other.

BTW...alligatoring is also a way to tell if paint on an old house is lead-based paint. It's usually several coats thick too.

hermanmaire
12-12-2009, 09:59 PM
a good option is you use one good coat of sealer ( its expensive but worth it) then the usual base coat then clear coat. The sealer makes sure nightmares like the one you just had do not happen.

Here is what I would do. For the areas that wrinkled..... let it dry, spray some 2k build primer, sand/blend it with the basecoat. Using a scotch pad, scuff the surface of the panels so the sealer has something to hold on to. Spray 1 nice coat of sealer, spray base coat, spray clear coat... your done.

I should also mention incase you dont know, these chemicals your spraying are all really bad stuff. A simple organic vapor mask is not good enough for spraying clear coats or most anything that has a activator. You need to really protect your eyes also, you should really be using a positive air feed mask.

Good luck

jsfbond
12-18-2009, 10:08 PM
Hey;
I just painted a Gt6+ and was lucky enough to have a former bodyshop owner working for me, that I could ask a lot of questions to prevent wasting time and material.
The biggest thing I learned was the underneath work was key.
Take the time to clean before sanding. Clean before priming, and clean before painting. Dupont has a much better tack cloth out than the traditional Gerson brand. When I painted I had a silver dollar sized blemish appear on the rear side panel around a very small dent fix. my wife grabbed some 1500 grit sanded it down, and tacked it. I had put on a lot of color, I'm not kidding... a lot! so she did not go through it. The clear must be applied within a 24 hour period or a light overall sanding is required to let the clear into the surface of the paint. By the same token, not sealing up the undercoat properly will let the paint get under old repairs, and primer. The best primer to use on a restore for a daily driver is SEM high build out of an aerosol can. I am actually amazed that my car came out so good (not run free)but good. My back groung, and forte' in cabinet making. The runs I had, have all been sanded off and buffed.

hondo402000
12-19-2009, 08:14 AM
on my issue I use a premium sealer and it did not help but thamks for the information, so far the only thing that appears to work is the suggestion Wayne made, BARCOAT, an oxide paint isolator, made in the UK, sprayed a test pannel yesterday and no problems with the alligatoring. And jsfbond your problem was probably due to mixing too much hardner in your filler will cause body filler to come thru your top coat, I use a digital scale to measure the filler to hardner ratio, and I actually ended up using all the filler and not have 1/4 can left and no harder for it

hondo

jsfbond
12-20-2009, 08:00 AM
Thanx for the tip on bondo, I have often wondered how to get the proportions correct. I see that 3M and Evercoat have guns and cartridges that dispense exact amount of each, but $$$$. And I don't have anymore than the one GT to rebuild, my bondo days should be over.