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alfa33047
09-06-2009, 05:44 PM
I am looking for the old post on altenator conversions for a TR-3. The post mentioned a GEO Metro one wire but I want to run the stock TR-3 pully. I hope that someone can help me find the information. Thanks, Bill C., Mesa, Az.

TR3driver
09-06-2009, 06:18 PM
Sorry, can't help with the Metro 1-wire. But for my conversion, I just had a machine shop bore out the stock TR3 pulley to fit the shaft.

It was already ruined for a generator anyway, from working loose and wiggling around.

TRDejaVu
09-06-2009, 06:37 PM
I was going to do that on the 4, but decided to switch to a narrow belt ----- after I bought a wide belt conversion kit on eBay. I still have the wide belt alternator pulley if your interested.

apbos
09-06-2009, 07:51 PM
Ian
Is this the wide belt pulley you were going to use? ebay (https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120387267754&viewitem= &sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT) I have a delco 7127 10 si alternator that I was going to use the side belt on.

Paul

NutmegCT
09-07-2009, 06:25 AM
Bill - take a look at this thread. Might be the one you're looking for:

https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/359266/

Hope this helps.
Tom

alfa33047
09-07-2009, 04:17 PM
Thanks everybody, The GEO Metro/Denso altenator is exactly what we are looking for. Thanks again, Bill C., Mesa,AZ

RJS
12-23-2009, 03:34 PM
Hi All,

If you don't mind me digging up an old post, I have a couple of more questions. So, I am strongly considering finally upgrading my TR4A's generator to an alternator this year. This is mostly for safety consideration so my headlights, turn signals and horns work at idle.

At the same time, I have to remove and re-fit my (stock) cooling fan as I recently noticed the PO mounted it backwards. (interestingly enough, my cooling system must be well sorted (besides my fan on backwards) as I have never had a single overheating incident in 9 years).

My original plan was to source a wide belt pulley for the new alternator and retain the wide belt. Yet, while "I" have no issues with my wide belt, I have read so many posts about thin belt conversions are the way to go.

Per the Moss thin belt kit instructions (available as pdf on their website), they state you have to remove the water pump to replace the pulley. They also strongly recommend replacing the timing cover gasket and seal since replacing the crank pulley nearly always disturbs these, resulting in leaks.

That begins to look like a lot of work for a thin belt conversion I was on the fence about to begin with. Can anyone tell me if 1) the water pump has to come off and 2) if I will have to replace the timing cover gasket and seal?

Thanks

Bob
PS: If I do go the thin belt route, I would definitely go the BPNW route and retain the stock mechanical fan.

Moseso
12-23-2009, 03:50 PM
I don't think you have to remove the water pump. In fact, I am nearly certain that I did not, when I changed pulleys. I should add, though, that the pulley I replaced had only recently been put in place, so it came off easily. If you need to struggle to get off a pulley that's been on there for years, it might be different.

I don't know about the timing cover seal. If you're that far in there, it probably isn't that much more work to do it...

prb51
12-23-2009, 04:31 PM
Bill,
Merry Christmas.
I didn't remove the pump or replace seals in the timing cover.
It would make sense to do the timing cover if your car had high miles and you needed to check/replace the tensioning spring/old seals etc but I know your car is low mileage.
I replaced the gen with the alternator and upgraded my headlamp circuit as I run halogens...I do miss the weak yellow glow of the lights nostalgically but it is nice to see ahead.

TR3driver
12-23-2009, 07:03 PM
Well, I would certainly have to remove the pump, as my pump is an aftermarket unit with a press-fit pulley (no nut). By not supporting the shaft as you press the new pulley on, you are also taking a chance on dislodging the shaft and causing the pump to leak (some pumps don't have circlips to locate the shaft in the bearings).

Sure sounds like a lot of work for not much gain. The wide belt works fine for you (and me) so why not stick with it?

BTW, NAPA sells a wide, cogged belt that fits and lasts forever. Also more flexible and a LOT easier to change than the stiff, solid things that Moss & TRF (used to) sell. I think I've broken one of them in perhaps 150,000 miles since I started using them; and I changed it on the side of the freeway in about 15 minutes.

When I took the spare belt out to use on the project TR3, the baggie it was wrapped in literally fell apart due to old age <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

Geo Hahn
12-24-2009, 11:16 AM
...(interestingly enough, my cooling system must be well sorted (besides my fan on backwards) as I have never had a single overheating incident in 9 years)...

Proving, I suppose, that the TR4 fan is about the same no matter which way 'round it is fitted -- with 'about the same' meaning fairly pathetic.


..If you need to struggle to get off a pulley that's been on there for years, it might be different...

FWIW, a simple in-situ water pump pulley puller can be fashioned from angle iron (assuming you have the original style pulley which can be pulled):

https://members.cybertrails.com/~ahwahnee/waterpump.JPG

I suppose one small advantage of the thin belt is that it can be changed without extra effort (e.g. loosening the motor mounts and raising the engine a bit). But like Randall, I use the cogged belt from NAPA (#24379) and it seems to be touble-free.

TR3driver
12-24-2009, 12:52 PM
Oh, one other thing, Bob; the alternator conversion may not solve your problem. The 60 Amp Ford alternator I used on my TR3A (to support an electric radiator fan, halogen headlights, and a high power stereo) would not keep up at idle either.

And my suggestion, if there isn't room between the rack &amp; fan extension to install a fan belt; is to add shims to the motor mounts until the belt will fit. The earlier cars actually had shims "as original", to line the crank dog up with the crank hole in the radiator; but the same shims can be used to get additional clearance between the extension &amp; the rack.

MadMarx
12-24-2009, 07:18 PM
I installed a modern alternator and I still use the thick belt. The stock pulley does fit well to the alternator shaft. For racing purpose I replaced the stock pulley with an aluminum one that I've done myself on a lathe - still for the thick belt.

Hope this helps!

Cheers
Chris

TRDejaVu
12-24-2009, 08:36 PM
I have a spare aluminum wide pulley if anyone needs one.

prb51
12-24-2009, 08:40 PM
I've a 100 amp alt. and run an elec fan, halogens, lucas driving spots, heater blower, but no stereo. I've shunted the original amp gauge so it's reg about 1/2 of actual load and have never pegged it to 30 (60 actual) with everything on and halogens at bright. Everything remains the same brightness and op at idle too.

martx-5
12-25-2009, 07:52 AM
I installed a modern alternator and I still use the thick belt. The stock pulley does fit well to the alternator shaft...


Some of the earlier lower output (35-50 amp) Nippondenso alternators have a 15mm shaft which is the same size as the TR generator shaft.

HerronScott
12-25-2009, 08:59 AM
Bob,

I don't recall having any problems running with a generator after restoring my TR4A back in the early 80's. This included a stereo, 50W amplifier and 4 speakers (hey I was only 24 at the time!).

Your headlights, turn signal and horn should work at idle so I would suspect some other problem.

Scott

TR3driver
12-25-2009, 09:43 PM
I installed a modern alternator Looks like a great fit, Chris, much better than the big old Ford I used many years ago. Do you happen to know what original application it came from?

RJS
12-28-2009, 01:02 AM
Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the input. Given my car is mostly a weekend driver, I have pretty much decided to stay with the original wide belt. Like Randall and Geo I sourced the NAPA cogged wide belt here in town last summer at the local NAPA store. One call in the morning and he had it for me after lunch.

When I replaced that belt, I had &lt;1mm clearance b/t the fan hub and steering rack so I had to loosen the motor mounts and jack under the oil pan to get clearance for the new belt to go on. I'm thinking about shimming the motor mounts with a few differential washers (from a TR4A) but, if I do that I would probably also add a few spacer washers under the radiator to raise it an equal amount. I'm thinking it is probably wise to keep the upper coolant outlet at the same height as the upper radiator inlet. Worst case, I jack the motor every 7 or 8 years when I replace the belt! It takes only about 15 minutes.

So, back to my original issue of low output at idle, I don't recall this issue being as bad several years ago. My battery, while well maintained, is going on 7 years old. It always starts the car no problem but, for $100 I think I will start there. Besides, how many more years can I expect from the battery anyway? If that doesn't work, I'll look into the voltage regulator and stabilizer, and finally consider an alternator upgrade (with wide belt pulley).

Cheers

Bob

Geo Hahn
12-29-2009, 07:34 PM
...My battery, while well maintained, is going on 7 years old. It always starts the car no problem but, for $100 I think I will start there...

$100? Not sure where you buy your batteries but I have been using the ones from Wally-Mart and think them just fine. Costco too has cheap batteries that others have found suitable.

RJS
12-30-2009, 06:29 PM
I just threw $100 out there as a rough guesstimate. The last battery I purchased for the TR was 7 years ago (it's now a year and a half past it's warranty). So, I happened to be in NAPA today picking up wiper blades for my wife's Volvo and checked. The BAT 5024 (my current battery with 65 month warranty) is $80 and the much stronger BAT 7524 was $94. I like these because they have a simple black case with no labels, markings or colors. Wack a "Lucas" sticker on it and it looks great.

Geo, what do you pay at Walmart/ Costco...and how long do they last?

Bob

MadMarx
12-31-2009, 09:38 AM
I installed a modern alternator Do you happen to know what original application it came from?

It is a BOSCH one taken from a Suzuki Swift '89.
Part-#: 0986035461

Cheers
Chris

TR3driver
12-31-2009, 10:15 AM
It is a BOSCH one taken from a Suzuki Swift '89.
Part-#: 0986035461
Danke schön!

Andrew Mace
12-31-2009, 11:41 AM
...what do you pay at Walmart/ Costco...and how long do they last?At both Walmart and AutoZone, I've paid between $50-60 for basic black-case batteries and gotten at least 6-7 years out of them.

TR4nut
12-31-2009, 11:53 AM
It is a BOSCH one taken from a Suzuki Swift '89.
Part-#: 0986035461

Cheers
Chris

Vielen dank also Chris - is that a 3-wire or single wire setup?

Randy

Geo Hahn
12-31-2009, 12:59 PM
...I like these because they have a simple black case with no labels, markings or colors. Wack a "Lucas" sticker on it and it looks great...

Exactly.

https://members.cybertrails.com/~ahwahnee/BatteryTR3.JPG

That's a WalMart battery ($39 in Sept 2005, likely more now). In addition to the homemade label a set of vintage battery caps more or less complete the look.