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View Full Version : At last, it's show time!



Tabcon
07-26-2009, 03:34 PM
After waiting for what seemed like forever to accumulate the parts I needed to rebuild my humble tractor engine, I finally have almost everything I need. Last night I set everything up with the intention of at least getting most of the engine together, but when I checked the end play for the crank, I found that it was too much at .010", so I have to wait until new .005" thrust washers arrive. The crank is in place though and it turns like butter.

https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/3498/ppuser/10098

https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/3497/ppuser/10098

https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/3496

bgbassplyr
07-26-2009, 03:50 PM
Ooooo...SHINY! Looks great.

mallard
07-26-2009, 04:18 PM
That's going to be one nice engine.

TR4nut
07-26-2009, 04:39 PM
Performance and bling to boot, can't wait to see it!

PeterK
07-26-2009, 07:36 PM
Pauter rods? Are you putting 89mm pistons in too. Which cam did you get?

Got a photo of the head too?

Brosky
07-26-2009, 07:43 PM
Now that selection of parts is a thing of beauty! Can't wait to see it all together.

Nice choice of color on the block too.

Yeah, nothing like a little "bling" to get the crowds going. Or at least some of them.

Tabcon
07-28-2009, 11:24 AM
Here are the specs for the engine:

<span style="font-weight: bold">Induction</span>: Twin Weber 45DCOE

<span style="font-weight: bold">Exhaust</span>: Racestorations stainless "Rally" headers

<span style="font-weight: bold">Head</span>: OE, ported, flowed, cc'd &amp; milled to 11.7:1 CR

<span style="font-weight: bold">Crank</span>: OE, ion nitrided, ground, polished &amp; balanced

<span style="font-weight: bold">Con Rods</span>: Lengthened Pauter Billet 4340 Chrome-Moly

<span style="font-weight: bold">Pistons</span>: 89mm J&amp;E Forged Aluminum 1.25" Short Deck

<span style="font-weight: bold">Block</span>:OE, 89mm competition spun cast iron liners

<span style="font-weight: bold">Cam</span>: Newman TRI4 300/435

<span style="font-weight: bold">Valves</span>: Oversized &amp; flowed stainless steel

<span style="font-weight: bold">Clutch &amp; Pressure Plate</span>: Tilton

<span style="font-weight: bold">Flywheel</span>: Fidenza Aluminum with lightened OE ring gear

<span style="font-weight: bold">Connectors</span>: ARP for head, manifold, rods, mains, flywheel &amp; valve train with ARP 12pt polished stainless steel for all external attachments.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Fuel System</span>: ATL Fuel Cell and Webcon Alpha electric fuel pump

<span style="font-weight: bold">Oil &amp; Water System</span>: Mocal Oil Cooler with closed breather system and catch tank and upgraded aluminum water pump and radiator.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Electrical</span>: Race Proven 45amp lightweight alternator,
Electromotive ignition system.

I appreciate the support. I'm glad I decided to do everything myself. It's been a challenging project, but very rewarding so far. The new RATCO frame should arrive any day now and I can't wait to install the engine and see if it actually runs!

Most of the "bling" is just polished aluminum from Racestorations. The Brit's don't like it polished as much as us yanks do, but they will polish everything...for a bit extra. There are still a few more blingish items to install like the alternator from Race Proven:
https://www.cambridgemotorsport.com/shop_images/Race_Proven_-_40Amp_Chrome_Alternator.jpg

I want to give credit to Paul for deciding on the red paint for the block. I used the Duplicolor Ford Red. I'll put the final coats as well as the clear on once all the greasy work is completed. The ceramic Dupicolor paint is great stuff and i highly recommend it. Thanks Paul!

DNK
07-28-2009, 04:02 PM
Use hi temp clear.
The web site I found Race Proven is a bike site. That correct?

martx-5
07-28-2009, 04:50 PM
... The new RATCO frame should arrive any day now and I can't wait to install the engine and see if it actually runs!


Did you opt for the powder coat on the frame??? Every time I go over to Tony's shop and see one of those frames powder coated, I drool.

Tabcon
07-28-2009, 10:03 PM
Yes...powder coated with the cream filling!

https://www.raceproven.com/

07-28-2009, 11:19 PM
Masterpiece!! DON'T FORGET TO PUT OIL IN IT BEFORE YOU LIGHT IT OFF! :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:

trfourtune
07-29-2009, 11:57 AM
great to see tab,
i love new parts. I have seen some racers use the nippon denso alternator from the toyota fork lifts- really small and good quality. I'm always looking for ways to save money on my build.
Rob

Tabcon
07-29-2009, 05:13 PM
Thanks for the alternative. The Race Proven alternator is not very expensive when you buy it direct though, about $229 I think. The retailier I found it from wanted almost 500 bucks for it!

trfourtune
07-30-2009, 10:05 AM
Tab,
I thought you were going to knife edge and lighten and polish your crankshaft? Was there a technical reason why you didn't or was it just too expensive?
Rob

Tabcon
07-31-2009, 08:49 PM
I was Rob, but the guy who did it for me, Nick @ Shaftech recommended I not. The crank I sent him was in pristine condition and didn't even need to be turned, but I had him do it anyway. There's not a whole lotta meat on the crank anyway and he felt it really didn't need it. It wasn't much more money to do it, but I agreed and left it alone. I was thinking about polishing the crank myself, but I'm so sick of eating cast iron I decided not too. In lieu of the polishing and edging, I'm going to install a teflon bladed crank scraper. These things are cool!

https://www.crank-scrapers.com/1500-lightened-tef-e.jpg

pjsmetana
08-01-2009, 09:17 AM
Wow! Very nice! Thats a lot of time and money there, but it never feels bad when you do the work yourself! I can't wait to see the finished product.

PeterK
08-01-2009, 09:24 AM
With all that $$ invested, I'd {almost but not really} be afraid to race it.

KVH
08-01-2009, 03:54 PM
LOOKS INCREDIBLE.

OKAY, question time:

Where did that alternator come from? Does that require replacement of the voltage regulator?

Can you explain the "lengthening" of the connecting rods? I didn't know that could be done?

Those pistons and liners look terrific. What kind of increased power do you get from that expanded bore? Where did they come from?

More detail on the new ignition system?

Any detail on those Webbers! I know they are frequently used. Can you explain the performance benefits?

Great looking project ready for great fun! Congratulations

KVH
08-01-2009, 03:58 PM
One more question:

When I rebuilt my engine I checked the crankshaft end float and found it "OK." What method did you use in your case? Just wondering how you used the dial gauge, etc. Thanks

Brosky
08-01-2009, 04:14 PM
Looking good Tab. Keep the pictures coming so we can see the progress and process.

That red will look good with the chrome. Just be sure to give it the rquired time to dry and apply per directions and it will look great.

Tabcon
08-01-2009, 07:40 PM
Well, I suffered a slight setback on the rebuild. Nothing major, but I did have to send the (second) block out to get the deck height right. NOT to the same machine shop that ruined my first block of course. The deck was not off that much and I was determined to do it myself, but it just turned into too much of a PITA.

"Hound"- the 2 very important lessons I have learned from trying to do everything myself are:

1. Get the right tools.

2. Get the right tools.

I was spending more time trying to make or rig things to use then I was actually spending working on the engine. Depending on what you're doing, there are 3 essential tools that I think are mandatory to rebuild your engine correctly.

1. <span style="font-weight: bold">A GOOD dial indicator!</span> Not a $29.95 mass produced one made in China. You don't need to spend a fortune on one, but I did a little research and found the best one for this particular application to be the Mitutoyo 1" dial gauge. No, it's not Swiss made but it's a darn good one and extremely accurate. It's also very sturdy and easy to read. Some of the very expensive ones are just too fussy and delicate to use in a garage setting. I bought it off of Amazon for about $93.00, which is a great deal for this gauge that normally sells for around $130+.

https://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/210MDLcKQ2L._SL500_AA266_.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-2416S-001...9173179&sr=1-23 (https://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-2416S-001-1-Dial-Indicator/dp/B001C0ZOPS/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&m=AIUBT5HP6PMAF&s=industrial&qid=1249173179&sr=1-23)

2. A good 3D magnetic base to use with the Mitutoyo. Again, after a little research and shopping around, I settled on a base made by Noga.

https://www.wttool.com/images/normal/12050415.jpg

This is a fantastic base and very easy to use. The arm articulates in 3 dimensions and it has a fine adjustment knob as well. The magnetic base is also very powerful. You really don't want to drop your dial indicator on a concrete floor. I got this one from Wholesale Tool for about $108.00.

https://www.wttool.com/

3. A good straight edge. These things are everywhere. Some are junk and some are ridiculously expensive. I found one, again at Amazon for under $60.00 that works extremely well.

https://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-ZWseNWXL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

I paid less than 300 bucks for all these tools and the headaches they have saved me are well worth it.

Brosky
08-01-2009, 08:02 PM
It's the old adage, you get what you pay for. Mitutoyo gauges are common in many shops for one reason, they are very accurate. A few thousandths can make a big problem if it's too tight or too loose.

Nice link that you provided too.

Tabcon
08-01-2009, 08:04 PM
I used the dial indicator to check the crank run out. Whatever you do, don't order any thrust washers from Moss, they're cheesy ones made in India. I found some made by Clevite at Calico Coatings that come already coated for only 10 bucks more.

The alternator is from https://www.raceproven.com/

The Pauter rods are lengthened by .5" and they also can make them in a .75" size, but you have to have your liners or your block machined to use the longer ones. You can only use the longer rods with the correct pistons which I bought from J &amp; E Pistons. The pistons are what they refer to as "short deck pistons" and have have the wrist pin location moved in relation to the piston top so as to retain the same exact overall rod &amp; piston height as the OE set up, even though the rods are longer. The reason for doing this is to reduce the piston speed as well as lessening the amount of force exerted on the crank pin. Or so I have been told. What it's all supposed to work out to is quicker revving engine with less friction. Now this is not the same as increasing the stroke, only the rod length. To increase the stroke you have to regrind your crank to make the center of the journals lower on the crank and then add the longer rods.

I'm not sure exactly how much of a power increase there will be with the larger liners, but the cubic inches goes from about 130 to 139, roughly. I'm still not sold on the ignition system yet and may change this before it's all done.

The Weber's are supposed to offer a slight advantage on straight away speed, but probably not a great deal of difference in every day type driving. I've had Weber's before and I'm comfortable tuning them, but they can be a bit more frustrating to deal with than the SU's...besides they look much cooler with the velocity stacks installed!

When it's all said and done, I'm hoping to get around 165 to 170 horsepower at the crank, maybe a little more. If I really wanted to get exotic and add fuel injection or a turbo, I could get a bit more power, but the cost just isn't worth it in my case.

TR3driver
08-01-2009, 08:06 PM
Just curious, Tab, what did you need the dial indicator for?

Tabcon
08-01-2009, 08:12 PM
TR3, the dial indicator comes in handy for a bunch of stuff. I've used it to check the run out on the crank and the cam as well as the flywheel. It can also be used to get an exact TDC reading and is great for setting the final height of the liner protrusion above the deck. You can also use it for your rear end, valves, your transmission, brakes, etc. After I got it, I double checked some of the "guesstimates" made with a feeler gauge and found the feeler gauge to be a good bit off in some situations. For instance, the feeler gauge can only tell you if a .005" blade doesn't quite fit as well as a .006" blade, but the .006" blade may fit a little loosely. So what is the final measurement other than a guesstimate?

TR3driver
08-01-2009, 11:21 PM
Thanks, Tab.

All measurements are "guesstimates"; I'm not real worried about setting the thrust clearance to better than .001" <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

I do have a dial indicator and magnetic stand (tho I spent a lot less than you did), in fact I had it out just a couple days ago checking the operating valve travel on my OD. But I've built several TRactor motors without one, and can't say I've ever felt it was a necessity.

BTW, a simple piston stop works about as well for finding true TDC. Even with a dial indicator, you have to find two positions and split them; as the piston is not moving at TDC.

TR4nut
08-02-2009, 07:16 AM
Tab-

Any updates on what you are doing body-wise? You going completely over to a rally look?

Randy

Tabcon
08-02-2009, 01:12 PM
Randy-

I started this "restomod" with the intention of using everything at my disposal to improve the handling and performance characteristics of the car. I never really set out to dramaticly alter the looks of the car, since this is the reason I bought a 4 in the first place. However, with the lowered suspension, wider wheels, bigger exhaust, etc., I think it could look a little weird if I simply restored it back to dead straight factory original specs insofar as interior, trim, bumpers, etc. are concerned. I still think that taking the rally type car approach is the best way to go with this car, but again, probably not a complete xerox of what the original rally cars looked like. I definitely don't want to do a "tribute" car, which in my opinion are really not so much a tribute as a rip-off.

One of the cars that inspired me is this one.

https://www.royal-falcon.de/Fahrzeugangebote/Seiten/Triumph_TR4_A_IRS_.html#9

I think this car is tastefully done and certainly not over customized. Also, if you ever wanted to bring it back to original, it wouldn't be a real problem. I like the color,
(E-Type Opalescent Gun Metal Gray) but I will most likey go with something a little darker like this Alfa's color.

https://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Alfa%20Romeo/58_Alfa_1300_Spider_BY_05_MDB_03.jpg

Brosky
08-02-2009, 05:13 PM
Judging from the cars that have inspired you, I'm sure it will be beautiful and unique.