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View Full Version : TR4/4A Torque for oil pan reinstall on TR4



doughairfield
07-07-2009, 12:43 PM
Hi,
I removed my oil pan on my TR4 over the weekend put a new gasket on and stop a leak. Soon, it will be time to put the pan back on, but I'm not entirely sure how much torque to use to put the bolts back in. I did see one post that said 5-8 ft/lbs but that doesn't seem like enough to keep the bolts tight. Could I go as high as 10 ft/lbs?

Moseso
07-07-2009, 12:55 PM
My (official) Shop Manual specs those bolts at 16 - 18 foot-pounds. Feel better now? Too much torque on those bolts dimples the sealing surface of the sump pan, making a good seal more difficult. The urge to really honk on those babies to stop an oil leak, while understandable, is wrong.

doughairfield
07-07-2009, 01:00 PM
That does make me feel much better. I noticed they were not on there very tight when I took them off the other day, so maybe that was part of the problem as well. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that a leaky sump pan is a common thing on the TR4s.

Question, my torque wrench moves in 5 foot-pound increments, so I could do 15 or 20. How, or what do use to get the 16-18 foot-pounds?

Also, how did you procure an official shop manual for the TR4? I'm sure it's good to have lying around.

Thanks.

Mickey Richaud
07-07-2009, 01:03 PM
:iagree:

Yep, and be sure the flange on the oil pan is completely flat. Take a good flat surface - strong sheet of plywood, or the like - place the pan upside down on it, and with a slim piece of hardwood, tap around the holes to make sure that thin metal is true. It will prevent a lot of problems, and you'll be surprised how "dimpled" your pan is!

doughairfield
07-07-2009, 01:14 PM
thanks good to know, I'll definitely do that before putting it back on.

TR4
07-07-2009, 01:42 PM
Ebay has shop manuals as do all the Big 3 suppliers.

Moseso
07-07-2009, 02:53 PM
Well, I'll 'fess up. The spec came from a TR3 manual, but it's really the same motor, so I'm betting it's a good spec.

And, yes, both the TR3 and TR4 manuals are in print, available and kinda spendy, like $50.00 or something. When I bought mine, it was only $25. I've had it since 1984. It's greasy and the binding, if you can really call it that, is broken in several places.

Krikey! I just looked it up. THE TR4/4A manual is up to like $89.85 at Moss. Jeepers!

TR3driver
07-07-2009, 02:55 PM
Question, my torque wrench moves in 5 foot-pound increments, so I could do 15 or 20. How, or what do use to get the 16-18 foot-pounds?15 will be close enough, IMO.
However, you might want to consider getting a second torque wrench for smaller torques. If the divisions are that large, you probably have a 100 ftlb or higher model, and they generally are not as accurate near the bottom of the scale.

I've got 4 of them; the big one goes to something like 250 ftlb, then 110 or so, then a 250 inch-pound and a 60 inlb model (good for adjusting bearing preload and whatnot).

TR3driver
07-07-2009, 04:42 PM
Krikey! I just looked it up. THE TR4/4A manual is up to like $89.85 at Moss. Jeepers! Might not be the cheapest source then <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif
https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=120440498868

Used originals also show up from time to time. If you are willing to settle for one in poor condition, sometimes they go pretty cheap, too. This is a Haynes, not the factory manual, just for example:
https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=220447869835

But watch out for those selling CDs instead of paper manuals. Sometimes you have to read all the fine print to discover you are buying a piece of plastic.

Moseso
07-07-2009, 05:55 PM
I did get a good CD version of the manual on eBay for $17.95, or something, complete with a bunch of "extras," including the parts manual and an overdrive manual and a bunch of other stuff. It's a piracy, of course, but when they want $80 - $90 for the "real deal," isn't that a piracy, of sorts, also? It just seems like a lot of money for a book they don't even have to pay royalties on...

TR3driver
07-07-2009, 11:23 PM
I believe the $18 CDs and Bentley reprints do pay royalties to BMIHT, who own whatever copyrights are still in force.

But I've also heard that the CDs are copy-protected, which keeps them from being usable on some operating systems; and also means you cannot add notes and such.

Moseso
07-07-2009, 11:57 PM
I'm betting the $18 CDs are pirated. Bentley sells CDs too. For rather a lot more than $18, if IIRC. Those would be the only licensed ones.

They haven't made a Triumbh since nineteen-eighty-something. Who <span style="font-style: italic">does</span> "own" this stuff?

TR3driver
07-08-2009, 12:29 AM
You could be right, Moses. But it seems an odd price point, when a pirated copy could easily be sold for $5 and still make a $4.50 profit. They also all seem to have the same odd features (not working under Vista and Mac OS) which seems unlikely for a pirated version. My guess is that the royalty to BMIHT works out to be around $15, and then various sources mark them up by different amounts (including BMIHT when they sell directly https://www.heritage-motor-centre.co.uk/s...h-bm/index.html (https://www.heritage-motor-centre.co.uk/shop/books-cds-dvds/technical-publications-on-cd-rom/triumph-bm/index.html))

And if I read https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law correctly, UK law provides that the copyright for a manual last for 70 years after the last remaining author dies; which would make them still in effect for anything written since at least 1939.

CinneaghTR
07-08-2009, 08:42 AM
I was actually re-torqueing my sump yesterday afternoon. My TR4/4A Autopress manual listed 18-20 ft/lb as the torque setting for sump to crankcase. I went with 20. I am sure you know this already, make sure you use a 6-point socket for the best grip.

If you have not finished the job already, the VTR maintenance pages has a good article on replacing the sump gasket.

Good luck,
Jeremy

doughairfield
07-08-2009, 08:44 AM
I'm eagerly awaiting my new sump screen to put on b4 I put the sump pan back in place. Should be in tomorrow. I'll check that VTR page for the article about the sump gasket. Thanks for the tip.

CinneaghTR
07-08-2009, 10:31 AM
Also, how did you procure an official shop manual for the TR4? I'm sure it's good to have lying around.


While you are at it, get an official factory parts manual, too. The Moss catalog will work in a pinch, but I have found it to be a big help.

trfourtune
07-08-2009, 11:02 AM
All,
you might want to go to Tony Drews web site. He lists all the torque values he uses on the "Red Rocket" Tr4 race car. Race cars suffer the worst conditions and are being "torn down" frequently. He knows what works.
Rob

doughairfield
07-10-2009, 09:47 AM
Seems like the torque spec is all over the board. I checked the VTR site, good write up btw, and he suggested 7-10 foot-pounds, which seems low, but the shop manual says you can go all the way up to 20, which seems a bit high to not bend the pan around the bolts and washers

I sort of split the difference and torqued the bolts to ~12 last night, then I'll crank them up to 15 foot-pounds when I get home to allow for some stretching over night. So far everything is looking solid. I also put that spin on oil filter adapter on from Moss, I think that's gonna make world of difference on my next oil change.