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TR6oldtimer
06-17-2009, 06:49 PM
Guess which bearing took the thrust from the clutch and the fan.
https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb247/tr6oldtimer/P6170009-1.jpg
If you guessed the lower right, you were right. Over all end play was .016, and yes that thing is worn down to the bronze, and chunks came off on the ends.

Opa
06-17-2009, 06:58 PM
Ray any idea how many miles are on them? what clutch assy are you running?

DrEntropy
06-17-2009, 07:01 PM
I've seen 'em a LOT worse, Ray. Good ya found most of the things in THAT condition.

mallard
06-17-2009, 07:02 PM
Then they fall out, and you find them in the oil pan. Then you find a new block.

poolboy
06-17-2009, 07:36 PM
It's peculiar how some engines/ drivers wear those things down and some don't/
I have 2 sets that I've removed from engines. One set had over 100k on them. There appeared to be no babbit wear or if it was it was even. They mic'd at .0920 and .0925.
The other set with about 60k miles mic'd .0918 and .0910. Same story on the babbit.

BobbyD
06-17-2009, 07:52 PM
If you're going for new thrust washers......and I bet you are :yesnod: Scott Helms new improved washers have gotten some good reviews (https://www.customthrustwashers.com/) with the 6-Pack guys. He also does a nice job with explaining the techie stuff. :driving:

tdskip
06-17-2009, 08:20 PM
So where does this put your rebuild at now Ray?

tomshobby
06-17-2009, 08:36 PM
Here is a photo comparison of the made-in-India washers and the Scott Helms washers. Besides the obvious difference you can order to your needed dimension thickness from Scott.

DrEntropy
06-17-2009, 10:08 PM
Good, Tom!!


PB: It seems to vary with both materials and the frequency/duration of the left foot on the clutch, IMO. If the clutch is used momentarily they last. If it's "ridden" they poop out kinda quick whether "stock" or not. Tho Helms' ones are FAR superior to any "white box" replacements.

CuriousGeorge
06-17-2009, 11:06 PM
How are these replaced? Is it an engine-out job?

TR3driver
06-17-2009, 11:49 PM
How are these replaced? Is it an engine-out job? Depends on how badly damaged other things are. The thrust washers themselves can be changed with the engine still in the car, but you'll need to drop the pan & the rear main bearing cap. With the cap removed, just slide the new washers into place, pushing out the old ones.

TR6oldtimer
06-18-2009, 09:17 AM
Ray any idea how many miles are on them? what clutch assy are you running?
This engine had 80k+ miles on it. The clutch was stock. I drove the car as a daily driver, and I drove it hard, often flat out. I also have to admit that I did not take very good care of, or do the simple maintenance to the engine as I should have.

Oddly, or at least to me, the cylinders had only a .002" taper. Not bad, but the pistons had actually worn by .006".

Anyway, the TR6 engine is not going to be rebuilt by me. Faced with the need for the cam bearing insert line bore ($600), and the crank ground ($300), and an aluminum fly wheel ($370), I opted to save the $1,270 for other things, so I'll shove it back under the workbench from whence it came.

Instead, I will use a lower mileage TR250 block I have, install the dual timing gears and chain, punch it out .020, install the '73 head shaved .100, and of course, use the '250's lighter flywheel.

Oh, when the time comes to sell the car, I will throw in the old original block.

Tinster
06-18-2009, 10:05 AM
How are these replaced? Is it an engine-out job? Depends on how badly damaged other things are. The thrust washers themselves can be changed with the engine still in the car, but you'll need to drop the pan & the rear main bearing cap. With the cap removed, just slide the new washers into place, pushing out the old ones.

Hi Randall-

I have a TR6, new TRF magic clutch, heavy use in metro stop and go traffic.
I've no idea the condition of the thrust washers but everything else on the
car was badly abused and has had to be replaced.

How many of the T/W are there in a TR6 engine?
How do I know what size to order?
Can I see them from under the car while on jack stands?
What holds them in place? Bang them out with hammer & screw driver?
Bang them back in? I really don't know their function.

I loaned out my Bentley Blue and now have no visual reference books.

Thanks for the help.

Dale (Tinster)

TR6oldtimer
06-18-2009, 10:53 AM
Dale, when I posted this thread, I thought about you, and almost did not do it. Before you jump into replacing thrust bearings that may not need replacing, buy these two items.

Dial indicator stand,
https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=5646
Dial indicator,
https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=623

$20 +shipping is a small price to pay to find out if the thrust bearings are shot or OK.

You really do not want to lay on your back, under the car, with oil dripping all over you, unless you really have to do it.

tdskip
06-18-2009, 11:38 AM
You really do not want to lay on your back, under the car, with oil dripping all over you, unless you really have to do it.

Wait - I'm not supposed to be enjoying that?

TR6oldtimer
06-18-2009, 02:54 PM
This is what you will see when you drop the pan (except, hopefully you have rods and pistons in the block). If you look close, on the right of the picture, you will see a 4 stamped on the block. There should also be a 4 stamped on the bearing cap in the same orientation. Be sure the numbers on both are in the same orientation when the cap goes back in. Also, it takes a bit of work to remove that cap.
https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb247/tr6oldtimer/TR6%20Engine/P6180001.jpg

Here is a shot of the bearing cap off. Toward the back of the crank, you can see one of the thrust bearings, the other is in front.
https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb247/tr6oldtimer/TR6%20Engine/P6180002-1.jpg

Here is a shot of the thrust bearings as it rotates out. You can easily see there is quite a bit of space between the crank and bearing journal and how an extremely worn bearing can easily fall out.
https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb247/tr6oldtimer/TR6%20Engine/P6180003-1.jpg

Mains and rod bearings can also be replaced with the engine in the block, so while there, you may want to take a look.

This is the TR6 engine that I am not rebuilding.

poolboy
06-18-2009, 05:09 PM
How are these replaced? Is it an engine-out job?
If you notice the 2 oil retaining grooves on each ofthe Thrust bearings. They are only on one side. Be sure you put them in correctly.
The smooth sides are back to back, Grooves face flywheel and radiator.

TR3driver
06-18-2009, 05:15 PM
Dial indicator,
https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=623I agree, you should absolutely check the crankshaft end play before going through all that grief to replace the thrust washers. "Normally" they should last as long as the other bearings on the crankshaft.

However, I'm a bit leery of buying any sort of precision tool from Harbor Freight, unless you have the facility to check and adjust it yourself. For precision tools, I go to Enco:
https://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=605-4080&PMPXNO=1645544
In this case, it's actually cheaper anyway (as long as the sale lasts).

tdskip
06-19-2009, 08:26 AM
Great thread guys - thanks.

Tinster
06-19-2009, 09:21 AM
Great thread guys - thanks.

pretty slick skip !! Thanks for your help!!

hondo402000
06-19-2009, 06:20 PM
I replaced mine and I purchased the STD and .005 oversized thrust washers , the STD went in and the end play came back in spec, dropping the pan was easy so only about a 4 hour job, plus I cleaned the gunk out of the oil pan and with a new pan gasket I stopped most of the oil leaks


HOndo

Tinster
07-07-2009, 08:33 AM
Dale, when I posted this thread, I thought about you, and almost did not do it. Before you jump into replacing thrust bearings that may not need replacing, buy these two items.

Dial indicator stand,
https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=5646
Dial indicator,
https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=623

$20 +shipping is a small price to pay to find out if the thrust bearings are shot or OK.

You really do not want to lay on your back, under the car, with oil dripping all over you, unless you really have to do it.


Devices arrived- thanks!
crankshaft end float three (3) measurements: .012, .010, .012
I guess I'll not be driving for a while.

thanks for the help.

best regards,

dale

TR6oldtimer
07-07-2009, 08:42 AM
Dale, when I posted this thread, I thought about you, and almost did not do it. Before you jump into replacing thrust bearings that may not need replacing, buy these two items.

Dial indicator stand,
https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=5646
Dial indicator,
https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=623

$20 +shipping is a small price to pay to find out if the thrust bearings are shot or OK.

You really do not want to lay on your back, under the car, with oil dripping all over you, unless you really have to do it.


Devices arrived- thanks!
crankshaft end float three (3) measurements: .012, .010, .012
I guess I'll not be driving for a while.

thanks for the help.

best regards,

dale

Looks like you will be getting up close and friendly with the bottom of your engine. Watch your knuckles and wear a hat.

vagt6
07-07-2009, 09:36 AM
Good luck, Dale.

Also, please be sure to always wear eye protection when working under the car. A drop of oil in the eye, or debris falling could make for a very, very bad day!

Let us know how it goes, with photos!

BobbyD
07-07-2009, 05:47 PM
Dale........I'd love to see a step by step pictorial of the whole procedure. From taking read out measurements to the bearing cap markings to the final install and all points in between etc etc...... You're great at documenting and writing this stuff up soooooooooo....I'm counting on you! :driving:

Tinster
07-07-2009, 08:39 PM
Dale........I'd love to see a step by step pictorial of the whole procedure. From taking read out measurements to the bearing cap markings to the final install and all points in between etc etc...... You're great at documenting and writing this stuff up soooooooooo....I'm counting on you! :driving:


<span style="color: #990000">BobbyD! Now that really gives me a good chuckle coming from you!

(No insult intended whatsoever) You know I've done maybe 98% of the
restore on my own and I used YOUR web site many a time to help me
figure out how to do things; since I am a total non-mechanic TR6 owner.

This afternoon, while driving to my Shrink's office, I outlining in
my head how I was going to photo/text document changing out thrust
washers and add it to my other "How To do ...s for other rookie,
know nothings Triumph car owners like myself.

I'll cut you a deal- you give me a little technical advice and I'll
do the documentation. You in? Noelan Steed has kindly given me a
fairly decent idea how to go about this. I loaned out my Bently Blue,
never got it back, so I've no references anymore.

Thanks for the kind words about my documentations. Much appreciated.

Dale (tinster)</span>

mrv8q
07-08-2009, 09:07 PM
I loaned out my Bently Blue, never got it back, so I've no references anymore.
Bentley's are known to be on eBay from time to time, so don't let that stop you! Irreplaceable, as you know. I, too, await your write-up, Dale!