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sp53
04-21-2009, 06:40 PM
Could someone show me where to find the web page that had those new ball and tie rod end boots to fit a tr3. The ones I purchased from Moss have already started to rot.

Don Elliott
04-22-2009, 06:29 AM
I bought my last ones about 5 years ago from Roadster Factory and put them on two years ago. Since then, I have been using red Amsoil synthetic grease (marked lithium type) to see if the boots might last longer than when I was using general purpose black lithium based grease. After two years and 8,000 miles, these new boots are still like new. They are not gummy at all and they have not developed any cuts like the last ones that lasted about 5 years but developed cuts from the flexing after about 2 years. The new boots on the outer surfaces cleaned up very easily with solvent on a rag this spring. The nice smooth and dense outer surfaces make me think that these new ones might be made of something more like flexible neoprene.

I can't say if it's the quality of the rubber which has improved or if it's the synthetic grease or maybe I need to give it more time - like 10 more years. Who knows ? But I'm pleased.

BobbyD
04-22-2009, 08:31 AM
I think you're talking about the boots sold by Energy Suspension. (https://www.energysuspension.com/pages/tierboots.html) Someone was ordering their product and was going to tell us how they fit.

https://www.energysuspension.com/media1/TieRodB.jpg https://www.energysuspension.com/media1/Suspen2.jpg

Geo Hahn
04-22-2009, 10:59 AM
I'm fairly certain that the boots (tie-rods and ball joints) on my TR4 are original and they are all intact and look fine (albeit a bit dirty). I mention this to suggest that the problems experienced with some of the replacement rubber is particular to the product being used and that the original rubber used by the Brits was better.

I suppose we're partly to blame as quality costs money and the vendors certainly feel a need to keep their product lines competitive price-wise.

Soup
04-22-2009, 05:39 PM
I bought these ends 10/07 and finally got them installed during the summer of 08. They looked fine before installation and sat over the winter with the car on stands and now look at them. Even worse they have no mile on them cause I'm still doing other suspension work; they're already shot. What a waste of money!

https://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff188/KevinMCampbell/IMG_5960.jpg

https://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff188/KevinMCampbell/IMG_5963.jpg

Geo Hahn
04-22-2009, 07:15 PM
Well those would be ideal candidates for the poly versions mentioned in BobbyD's message above.

mallard
04-22-2009, 08:04 PM
This may sound a bit blunt but I think that all the Chinese rubber componets being used by the vendors is JUNK. Everything from Boots to windshield rubber surrounds. I would gladly pay more for a good product.

Gliderman8
04-22-2009, 08:28 PM
Soup-
I notice that your tie-rod ends have the grease fittings installed. Where did you get them? Or, did you drill and tap them yourself for the grease fittings?
Thanks for any info that you can provide.

mallard
04-22-2009, 08:39 PM
TRF should have them with the fittings.

Gliderman8
04-22-2009, 08:51 PM
TRF should have them with the fittings.

Keith- Thanks for the info. I just checked the TRF site and they do indeed have them with the fittings installed. I also checked Moss, and no grease fittings. Do people just drill and tap their own?

tdskip
04-22-2009, 09:18 PM
Do people just drill and tap their own?

Yes, I believe so.

mallard
04-22-2009, 09:22 PM
I don't like the idea of drilling them. What if some of the metal got into the joint. I got mine 6 years ago and were good quality. I did have to replace the rubber boots though. The second batch seem to be better. As mentioned above the first ones fell apart before the car ever saw the road.

TR3driver
04-22-2009, 11:04 PM
While I have been known to do such things, it's a lot of work to drill (packing the flutes with grease to catch swarf, plus frequent cleaning and repacking), and tap (ditto), and then flush them out with solvent to get out the bits that escaped. Lots easier IMO to just buy from TRF in the first place.

Put the "sealed for life" ones on flea-bay. With luck, you'll make a few bucks on them!

angelfj1
04-23-2009, 05:31 AM
I bought these ends 10/07 and finally got them installed during the summer of 08. They looked fine before installation and sat over the winter with the car on stands and now look at them. Even worse they have no mile on them cause I'm still doing other suspension work; they're already shot. What a waste of money!

https://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff188/KevinMCampbell/IMG_5960.jpg

https://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff188/KevinMCampbell/IMG_5963.jpg

You will, of course, notify the supplier and request a refund and explaination? If you do, could you please inform us of any useful feedback. :yesnod:

Soup
04-23-2009, 06:06 AM
[quote=Don Elliott]...I have been using red Amsoil synthetic grease (marked lithium type) to see if the boots might last longer than when I was using general purpose black lithium based grease. After two years and 8,000 miles, these new boots are still like new.

Don wrote the above earlier and I think he is onto something. I apoligize because my post was mis-leading in that I implied that the two pictures above are of two different tie rod ends but are actually two pictures of the same end. As it turns out, I may have conducted a study without knowing it because I went and looked at the other tie rod that has been installed onto the rack but never attached to the swing arm and therefore not greased either. Without any grease in the boot, that tie rod end is still in perfect condition. Why a traditional grease that I have been using for years on all my American cars has deteriorated this rubber boot and is a short period of time (less than a year) is beyond me. But, it does seem to support Don's theory of using synthetic grease.

I am now going to try and find an aftermarket boot to save this tie rod end purchased from TRF and start buying synthetic grease for all my projects. Hope my mistake will help others.

Could there be a down fall to mixing synthetic grease with non synthetic? I don't want to do another study on my American car. :wall:

Don Elliott
04-23-2009, 06:29 AM
Here's a photo of the rubber boot on my front top ball joint taken about a month ago. This has had red Amsoil lithium based synthetic grease in it for two years and 8,000 miles.

BTW, all the parts you see in this photo were painted in 1988 during my restoration and have been driven 100,000 miles since then.

Edit - Sorry - I forgot that I put in new ball joints about 8 years ago.

TR3driver
04-23-2009, 07:32 AM
Why a traditional grease that I have been using for years on all my American cars has deteriorated this rubber boot and is a short period of time (less than a year) is beyond me. Many types of 'rubber' are attacked by petroleum grease and oil. See for example O-ring compatibility with petroleum grease (https://www.efunda.com/designstandards/oring/oring_chemical.cfm?SM=none&SC=Grease%2C%20Petroleu m%20Base#mat)

IMO the problem is not your grease, but rather that you got some of the many products being sold that are simply the wrong material.

Unfortunately, just like it's hard to taste glycol in toothpaste, it's hard to look at a tie rod boot and see whether it's EPDM or Buna-N.

Soup
04-23-2009, 12:46 PM
I odered new boots today from energy suspension. I decided I would get a pair of red and black just in case and since they are only four dollars a pair plus five bucks to ship. I went with part number 9.13105. They said I should have them in about 5 working days. I will post pictures.

https://www.suspension.com/bjb.htm

sp53
04-24-2009, 02:19 PM
Yes I have the same problem as Soup, the rubber rotted away. What is kinda weird is that the Moss part number is embossed right on the boot. They must not have known they were going to be crap. However, it does sound like the TRF boots will work and look stock. Perhaps, I will try them.

sp53
05-01-2009, 02:23 PM
Hey Soup I was checking to see if you received you rubber boots. I tried to purchase them from TRF but they did not have a part number. In addition, if you did get them, what do you think about the product and how did they fit. Oh yes, what method of ordering did you use? Thanks in advance for reading this.
SP53

mountainman
05-01-2009, 08:39 PM
Hey Don,
I would like order I set for my tr3 also Could you please tell me what size I will need for the ball joints and tie rods.
Thanks
Greg

mountainman
05-01-2009, 08:46 PM
My bad Don, I thought you used the red or black one's. Can anyone tell me the size I nedd for a tr3 ?
Thanks
Greg

Soup
05-02-2009, 06:34 AM
SP53, sorry for the delay. I did receive them and the the quality of the boots seem pretty good. And since the boots are basically made generic I would say the fit is as good as they could make them given the likley huge scenerios but not as good as the original boots. The problem, as you can see in the pictures, is they ride up onto the tie rod housing. In the last picture you can see how the boot actually rides up over the bump out causing some gaps. I plan to trim the boot in this area once I finish the suspension and have everything torqued down. (This tie rod isn't fully torqued yet)

https://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff188/KevinMCampbell/IMG_5963.jpg

https://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff188/KevinMCampbell/IMG_6020.jpg

https://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff188/KevinMCampbell/IMG_6019.jpg

https://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff188/KevinMCampbell/IMG_6021.jpg

Soup
05-02-2009, 06:45 AM
SP53, I ordered them the old fashioned way, I called them.