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FWK-MGTF
07-28-2004, 02:02 PM
I just bought another sportscar -- let's see if you can guess what it is:

1. Although it is not British, a component of the Union Jack appears in its nameplate.

2. When its engine displacement was increased from 1600cc's it was given the name of a famous predecessor.

3. It was the last complete design by a famous designer, and it was the last year that design was used unchanged.

4. It was featured in a movie in its year of introduction.

5. I have applied for CA plate "FNOTPH" for it.

There is enough here to tell the marque, model and year of the car.

Bugeye58
07-28-2004, 02:40 PM
A 2001 Alfa GTA?
Jeff

Steve
07-28-2004, 02:41 PM
Alfa Romeo Spider, formerly the Duetto, circa 1970?

aeronca65t
07-28-2004, 03:03 PM
Clever license plate. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I'd say ALFA (and not "Alfa").

FWK-MGTF
07-28-2004, 03:04 PM
Yes, it is an ALFA.

The ALFA nameplate has St. Goerge's Cross on the left side. The right, a serpent devouring a Saracen is the crest of the Visconti family. Together, it is known among ALFA owners as representing "Jesus Christ, the cost of ownership is eating me alive!"

When the engine capacity was increased to 1779cc's, the car was named the 1750 - in homage to the 6C1750 of the late '20s and early '30s

The Duetto was the last design completed by Battista (Pinnin) Farina. There was no 1968 or 1970 Spider sold in the US. When it returned in 1971, the tail was chopped off in a Kamm design.

"F" not "PH" is how you spell ALFA (Anonima Lobarda Fabbrica Automobili)

Simon TR4a
07-28-2004, 04:45 PM
I enjoyed trying to puzzle that through, got the license plate but thought maybe it was an earlier Bertone design. Just obscure enough to be difficult without being impossible!
Liked the explanation too, I was not aware of the details of the badge and their meaning.
Simon.

rloewy
07-28-2004, 08:52 PM
Congrats on your new purchase. What year?

I had one (a 1988, dual-carb model) in the past. It was not the most reliable car I ever had - but one of the best looking and most fun to own. I hope you enjoy your new toy as I did mine. (Sold it only because we moved to a very urban area and did not have the space to keep or use it).

Ron.

Steve_S
07-28-2004, 10:04 PM
The Alfa Duetto is one of my favorite sports cars in terms of looks. Simply gorgeous!

judow
07-28-2004, 10:14 PM
Would like to see a photo of it...

Steve_S
07-28-2004, 10:36 PM
Here's a few pictures of the model...

Pic 1 (https://www.csl.sony.co.jp/person/osawa/carAlbum/alfa/Duetto.JPEG)
Pic 2 (https://www.klubbalfaromeo.no/arkiv/bilder_italienskdag_01/duetto.JPG)
Pic 3 (https://www.pininfarinaregister.nl/afbeeldingen/spider%20duetto.gif)
Pic 4 (https://www.motorsnippets.com/cars/alfa_exhibition/graphics/Alfa_Spider.jpg)
Picture Page (https://home19.inet.tele.dk/alfa_romeo/E_Classico02_02.html) (only first two are duetto)

Steve
07-29-2004, 12:37 AM
A friend of mine back in the UK has one of those Giulietta Spiders, as on those pictures. Congratulations on your Duetto, that is one pretty little car!

78Z
07-29-2004, 01:18 AM
Very nice!!!

catfood
07-29-2004, 09:13 AM
Interesting how tastes differ. I'm always reading how these Spiders are considered one of the prettiest cars ever made but I can't see it myself (I have the same problem with recent Ferrari's, maybe its an Italian thing). The boot (trunk) looks too long compared to the bonnet (hood) but there again I'm probably biased by love of british sports cars. Their design always seems to favour short(ish) boot and long bonnet.

Steve
07-29-2004, 10:21 AM
Hi Steve. In Italy the car is referred to as "Osso di Seppia" which translates to "cuttlefish" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It's all in the eye of the beholder, some people think a design may be wonderful, others recoil in horror from the same thing. Even the more boxy Alfas had a certain flair to them, and I would have any Alfa in my garage. Not to put down any other design themes.......most British designs are wonderful (with the exception of the Daimler Dart) and don't forget, Triumph had a lot of Italian-designed vehicles in their range for a long time.

aeronca65t
07-29-2004, 10:37 AM
Edit: Just before I posted this, I reviewed UK Steve's comments and realized that our American Steve had posted many of the same thoughts....great minds think alike!
Anyway, here was my response.....

That's an interesting point.
The "short-tail look" was one of the things that made the original Ford Mustang such a big hit. I actually prefer the shorter trunk of older Miatas (MX-5 Eunos) to the newer, longer tail of my M2 Miata. I prefer older Corvettes for the same reason.
But when it comes to ALFA Spiders, I like the longer, fish-like round-tail model...not sure why (I owned a 1300 Spider eons ago).
I agree that certain cars "look Italian". TR-4s and Spitfires are nicer examples of that look than many "real" Italian cars.
The Brits did some great styling......but then there's the SP-250 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif


ALFA Kamm-tail and Round-tail Spiders
https://www.aroc-usa.org/members_cars/n_barnes_88_spider_grad_th.jpg

https://www.aroc-usa.org/members_cars/m_romagnoli_69_spider_th.jpg

Bruce Bowker
07-29-2004, 11:31 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I owned a 1300 Spider eons ago).

[/ QUOTE ]

Being nosey - but what year ALFA? I bought, in early 1964, a 1961 white ALFA Guiletta Spyder which was my first car.

Bruce

Bret
07-29-2004, 11:43 AM
I don’t know all that much about these cars (Official disclaimer) – but I do seem to recall reading or seeing something about the long tailed Spider only lasting the first year or so model years. But that the rest of the body basically didn’t see all that many changes over its long production run. BTW, how many years did these cars last in production? Longer than the MGB? Other comments?

Anyway – there’s a rather nice little red one (don’t know the year) around the corner with a for sale sign on it. Never talked to the guy who’s selling it but I drive pass the guy’s house just about every day and it’s almost always been garaged.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

Steve
07-29-2004, 12:18 PM
The round-tail Duetto was introduced in 1966, and was changed to the Kamm tail around 1971 I think. The final update was in 1991, so yes, it did have a longer production run in its various forms than did the MGB. Not sure when they were finally discontinued.

Steve_S
07-29-2004, 12:31 PM
From what I understand, the Alfa convertible changed model names which makes the MGB a longer run of a single model car. If not mistaken, the MGB had the longest single model run of any car until the Miata. Or am I confusing my facts?

Bret
07-29-2004, 12:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
From what I understand, the Alfa convertible changed model names which makes the MGB a longer run of a single model car. If not mistaken, the MGB had the longest single model run of any car until the Miata. Or am I confusing my facts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to agree with Steve on this one. (What is that now Steve two?) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angel.gif

Anyway - it is my understanding that the MGB saw fewer changes from introduction to end of production than any other single model and was basically the same car when production ended.

Not sure exactly where the Alfa fits into this but in the last issue of Classic Motorsports there was a letter from a person who disputed a previous CM article that hailed the MGB as the best all time sports car – simply based on both years of production and units produced. The disgruntled letter writer said that the he felt that the Datsun/Nissan Z cars deserved the title as it out produced the MGB by significant numbers. But CM rebutted – pointing out that the Z cars saw many major manifestations in it’s production life, while there was little difference between the first and the last MGBs.

Of course whenever someone says that anything is the BEST –you’re always going to have someone who disagrees.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

Steve
07-29-2004, 04:15 PM
I believe that the MGB is the SPORTSCAR with fewest changes, but there were saloon cars produced that had longer runs, essentially unchanged.

aeronca65t
07-29-2004, 04:28 PM
Being nosey - but what year ALFA? I bought, in early 1964, a 1961 white ALFA Guiletta Spyder which was my first car.....

Bruce.
I had a white '60 Spider. Drum brakes. An axle failed and I sold the car cheaply (dumb move!). I think it had a Lucas distributor.

By the way, I agree that the MGB is the longest running sports car model (though I've never owned one).

Bret
07-29-2004, 05:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I believe that the MGB is the SPORTSCAR with fewest changes,<<SNIP>>

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, that is what I said. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif

Steve_S
07-29-2004, 10:59 PM
The MGB is no longer the best selling sports car of all time. It was until the late 90's when the Miata took over that particular honor.

aeronca65t
07-30-2004, 12:48 AM
The MGB is no longer the best selling sports car of all time. It was until the late 90's when the Miata took over that particular honor.

Oh that's certainly true in terms of sales numbers...but the MGB had a longer actual run in terms of years (16 if I'm counting right). Miata has 14 years and counting if you see the first cars as 1990 models (they came out in 1989). At any rate, the basic frame and body on the MGB didn't really change much during its run. My M2 Miata doesn't share any body parts with an M1 model.
As I was thinking about this, it also occured to me that Spitfires had a 17 year run and so did "box-Spridgets". If you include the Frogs, Sprite/Midgets had a run of 21 years.
Lotus/Caterham Sevens might be said to have an even longer "run"....but no two of them is really alike!

Steve_S
07-30-2004, 12:50 AM
Yes, I was referring to number sales.

Bret
07-30-2004, 02:23 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Oh that's certainly true in terms of sales numbers...but the MGB had a longer actual run in terms of years (16 if I'm counting right). Miata has 14 years and counting if you see the first cars as 1990 models (they came out in 1989). <<SNIP>>

[/ QUOTE ]

Great point! Thanks for clearing that up for us. But if it helps the first year of production for the MGB was actually 1963 (with production actually starting in May of 62). This means production spanned 1963 (or 62) thru 1980.

Anyway we are kind of getting away from the subject of the original post - But it seems that my comments in my last post have been misconstrued by some and require some clarification.

So I should point out that the Classic Motorsports article about how the MGB is the Best Sports Car – did concede that the Miata out sold the B and currently is the best selling Sports Cars to date. Not sure I agree with that, but regardless CM went on to say that the MGB warrants the title of “Best Classic Sports Car” based solely on it’s numbers and the fact that the Miata isn't a classic - yet. But for now the "Classic Sports Car" title would seem to belong to the B.

That said - Lets make the battle really interesting for the title of “BEST Sports Car”? Compare what percentage of total car sales each model made up for those years that they where actually in production and what percentage of the car buying population each model claimed during those years.

Example: 20,000 units sold in the mid-70s would (IMHO) would be much more of an accomplishment than the sale of 20,000 units today. Yes I'm a little bias - but in this battle I would tend to think that the MGB would win.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

bighly
08-05-2004, 10:27 AM
Morgans have had a very long run and can still be had new.

Super 7
08-10-2004, 10:30 PM
Alfa's are a pretty good buy compared to some other sports cars. I really like the small sedans. I had a Berlina 1750. It was too heavy for the power.