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Tinster
12-01-2008, 07:12 PM
I am also having problem with my idle increasing
with the Ratco linkage. My problem seems to be reraled
to the folded metal between the two carbs.

The Ratco pull the folded metal at an odd angle and
deforms it. The more deformation the more my idle increased.

Is it posible to get rid of the folder metal piece and
install a straight shaft of some sorts?

thanks,

d

https://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/TinsterTR6/?action=view&current=linkageRatco.jpg

Brosky
12-01-2008, 08:38 PM
Dale,

There is nothing wrong with the Ratco linkage as it's installed. If you want that slight bend to come out of there, you can loosen the two nuts on the cable housing and bring the entire cable down a slight amount, but not much, because that bend isn't severe.

You may wonder why I say it's not the Ratco linkage, but remember that a braided cable will never be strong enough to push a throttle linkage open, even a little bit. This is why the later model TR6 carbs use a solid wire choke cable. the earlier models had a wound spring on the choke linkage and they used a braided cable to pull the choke closed, but the springs did all of the work.

I think that you should loosen the carb linkages very slightly at the spring clip bolts on one side only to see if the idle drops back down. If it does, lock it down and drive it from there to see how it reacts.

Just out of curiosity, are you actually driving the car for a reasonable distance or doing start ups in the garage while you're recuperating? If you are, that may be part of your problem.

Brosky
12-01-2008, 08:41 PM
Time out! The spring retainers are not installed properly, which is why you're getting the "deformation as you call it.

Both sides should be on the shaft, not one part as yours shows clearly in the picture. I'll try to find a picture of mine to show you.

Brosky
12-01-2008, 08:47 PM
Dale,

Look at the first picture and you will see the spring clamps as they should look prior to installation. Please note that the though holes are in perfect alignment for the shafts to slide through on either side of the clamp. Two walls of each clamp should be on each shaft, not one wall with one in between the shafts. That is causing your deformation.

Look at the second picture and make sure that your look like mine when installed over both carb shafts.

poolboy
12-01-2008, 09:54 PM
I've seen those spring clips get deformed like that, if someone tried to remove one carb at a time, not realizing that the throttle shafts were still linked together. It might be "sprung" in that shape and need to be replaced or taken off and reshaped.

mrv8q
12-02-2008, 12:09 AM
Both sides should be on the shaft, not one part as yours shows clearly in the picture. I'll try to find a picture of mine to show you.

Here's a quickie shot that may help, Dale:

https://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p52/mrv8q/IMG_0852.jpg

Tinster
12-02-2008, 07:48 AM
Time out! The spring retainers are not installed properly, which is why you're getting the "deformation as you call it.

Both sides should be on the shaft, not one part as yours shows clearly in the picture. I'll try to find a picture of mine to show you.

<span style="color: #660000">HI Paul,
Both ides of the folded metal were on the trottle shafts wen I reworked
the Ratco Linkage. The odd angle the Ratcp pulls the folded metal causes
deformation which pulls the carbs out of balance.

I will reinstall the Ratco linkage and take a photo of everything nice,
straight and true. Within ten miles drive the folded metal will be distorted
and my idle up around 1400 to 1500.

And yes, in between bouts of lying flat of my back, I try to drive the car
40 to 50 miles. This hear virus tears the stuffing out of ya. Even with a
younger couple helping out ith chores, we run out of steam easily.

Once again, is there a solid shaft I can purchase to get rid of the folded
metal? It seems pretto lame from the get-go.

regards,

d</span>

Tinster
12-02-2008, 09:13 AM
Dale,

Look at the first picture and you will see the spring clamps as they should look prior to installation. Please note that the though holes are in perfect alignment for the shafts to slide through on either side of the clamp. Two walls of each clamp should be on each shaft, not one wall with one in between the shafts. That is causing your deformation.

Look at the second picture and make sure that your look like mine when installed over both carb shafts.



Paul,

neither on of my carbs has that set of golen colored
fasteners for show in the upper right corner of you fphpto.
Could I be using the wrong fasteners? They
came with the carbs whe Jeff rebuilt them for me.

I kept my original carb linkage. Is there any reason not to remove
the Ratco cable linkage and istall the OEM linkage? The OEM
seems to have far less problems and be more reliable.

I see the primary problem with the Ratco is that is does not rotate the
throttle shaft at 90* - It is more like 75% and out of plumb. This forces
the front carb linkage folded metal piece to deform.

thanks,

dale

70herald
12-02-2008, 01:05 PM
I see the primary problem with the Ratco is that is does not rotate the
throttle shaft at 90* - It is more like 75% and out of plumb. This forces
the front carb linkage folded metal piece to deform.

thanks,

dale

Dale, I think the most obvious solution is to find out why your linkage is not at 90 I agree that you are creating an extra twisting force which will ruin those clips. Can you move over the bracket a bit to straighten things out? Or use your fabricating skills to make up a better bracket.


I am not sure about the dimensions of the shafts but take a look at the couplings here:
https://www.anaheimautomation.com/couplings.aspx

Also WM Berg has every type of coupling you can imagine!
https://www.wmberg.com/catalog/productsearch.aspx?url=https://wmberg.smartcats.com/sc_app/default.asp

NickMorgan
12-02-2008, 04:06 PM
Dale,
From my limited knowledge, but just by looking at your picture, it looks as though the further you press the throttle peddle, the more of a twist will be put on the linkage. As the cable shortens it will be at more of an angle. I would have thought, as you do, that the cable should come up at 90 degrees to the throttle shaft. I would go and look at the linkage on my TR3, but as it is snowing heavily just now and I have a cold, I will leave it for a while! (I think it acts on the front carb from memory.)
How does the original linkage work on the TR6?
Nick

Brosky
12-02-2008, 07:44 PM
Dale,

The folded metal is there for a reason and has worked well on thousands of the cars for a reason. Perfect alignment of the throttle shafts is not possible under all temperature ranges, thus making a solid coupler a problem either when hot or cold. I know that for a fact after 20-30 hours of tweaking them on my triple carbs, only to return to the stock folded couplers.

And if I remember correctly, the stock linkage assembly pulls at an angle in the opposite direction, so it is not perfectly aligned either. Actually, I think that is evident in the picture above.

I tend to agree with the thought that the couplers that you have may be twisted beyond their useful spring metal life and need to be replaced. Jeff palya, who does the micropolishing and whom you know, sells a stock and a HD spring version, that is less forgiving, so don't go there unless you want to go the way that I did for two weeks. Get a stock set set down from either TRF or Jeff and you will probably remedy the situation.

I've had emails from 20-25 guys, both with twin and triple carbs and none have complained about the issues that you are facing, so I don't think that it is the Ratco linkage. Which by the way is infinitely better than the stock linkage, so try the new couplers and I believe that it will solve your problem.

I also just noticed that Kevin's center linkage that fits between the two carb shafts appears to be opposite yours, with the lock nut on the right and from what I can see in the picture, yours is on the left. Reversing that part and swapping the ball stud over may cure the alignment issues as well.

Tinster
12-03-2008, 08:55 AM
Nick- I am wondering if I should just leave well enough
alone.

When I straighten out the folded coupling the engine
will hold a nice 850 rpm.

The rpm rises as the folded coupling gets more distorted
from the off-angle Ratco cable linkage. I get as high as
1800 rpm due to linkage distortion. Does a 1800 idle rpm
harm the engine?

Yes, I have my designer's cap on now and am trying to come
up with a modification to the Ratco bracket that will permit
a 90 degree straight down pull. The off-90* warps the folded linkage rather quickly.

later gator.

Brosky
12-03-2008, 09:25 AM
Dale,

Replace the coupler(s). It is probably shot by now. It will bend even at a 90 degree angle if it's bending now.

What about swapping the center section of the linkage over, to match Kevin's as I suggested above, to move the pivot closer to the desired 90 degree angle?

Tinster
12-03-2008, 12:05 PM
Dale,

Replace the coupler(s). It is probably shot by now. It will bend even at a 90 degree angle if it's bending now.

What about swapping the center section of the linkage over, to match Kevin's as I suggested above, to move the pivot closer to the desired 90 degree angle?

<span style="color: #660000">Tried that, it made things more out of kilter. I took everyting apaprt again,
straighteneds the coupler again, added shim washers to help attain vertical
and put things back to normal. A nice, stready 850 rpm idle. I'll order Jeff's new couplings.

I must say these cars require almost constant tweaking and constant cash outlays.
No wonder you northern Triumph owners park your beasts for 7 to 9 months a year.
You'd all go broke if you tried to drive them 12 months a year. je,je,je,je!!

At leasy with Gardener's car now on island, I have a real TR6 to go look at
to see how things are supposed to put together. No more quesswork.

d</span>.
https://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/TinsterTR6/shims.jpg

Andrew Mace
12-03-2008, 01:39 PM
<span style="color: #660000">I must say these cars require almost constant tweaking and constant cash outlays.
No wonder you northern Triumph owners park your beasts for 7 to 9 months a year. You'd all go broke if you tried to drive them 12 months a year. je,je,je,je!!</span>Dale, I understand what you've been going through: you've had so many problems to fix and previous "fixes" to <span style="font-style: italic">undo</span>. However, the truth generally is that the cars -- once "sorted" and/or "put right" -- can go months and miles at a time with nothing more than regular, preventive maintenance. In six years and over 30,000 miles (had 50,000 on it when I got it) on my '62 Herald, the few significant problems I've had were almost all early on and, at least in part, traceable to the previous owner's errors, substitutions and bodges; and extreme <span style="font-style: italic">lack of use</span> of the car (700 miles in the 13 years they owned it). In defense of the DPO, however, most work that had been done was done well and with good quality parts, and there was then and is now virtually no deviation from original conditions and specifications (i.e., making an old Ford part fit or cutting up an old bed frame to patch the chassis)! From all I've heard from you here @ the BCF, you were not quite so fortunate with Amos. :devilgrin:

2wrench
12-03-2008, 02:18 PM
Hope you're feeling better, there, Dale....

At least you do get to drive your car. My speedo saga continues...