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View Full Version : performance increase from triple strombergs??



brent615
11-17-2008, 11:29 PM
what kind of performance increase could i expect by using the good parts triple stromberg set up on a TR6 with a mild cam?

Trick6
11-18-2008, 12:04 AM
Brent615:
I bought my car with dual Webers. I replaced the two Webers with three 175 Strombergs. I have them running just fine now but a little rich. The gas mileage is surprisingly very good highway cruising. I don't care much about the around town mileage.

Performance? Well, I have done so much to the motor that I can't give you a good comparison with a stock conversion. I am told since doing this that the HP is accomplished by increasing the compression. My motor program consisted of balancing all rotating components, head work now 10.0:1 compression, GP2 cam and lots of other stuff.

https://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp13/algary/100_0842.jpg

This is the finish product. Go to the link below to see the components list.

tom628
11-18-2008, 01:19 AM
Brent, I have '76 with an Isky street cam, and I immediately noticed a definite improvement in power pretty much across the rpm range. They especially allowed the engine to reach redline much more enthusiastically. One thing I would suggest if you're running triple ZS carbs, is to get the Ratco cable throttle linkage to ensure full throttle opening and smooth action.

Tom

LastDeadLast
11-18-2008, 07:27 AM
I've had the triple carbs as well as my current setup, dual HS8's.

My take on the triple carbs, nice but in my case, I spent ALOT of time tuning them to get good idling characteristics and performance... try as I might, I could just get my setup to idle below 1300rpm. Another problem that many people that has had the tripps, is that after they get hot the linkages start binding a bit, which caused the idling problem I listed above. Performance was definitely better than with the dual ZS carbs, but then again, I had added cam, compression and headers at the same time.... but they looked SOOOO cool!

The Ratco throttle linkage is a must.

If you read Kas Kastner's book, he says that the dual carbs are good for 175HP, but I think he was making custom needles and the like... I think that you might want to seriously consider dual HS6's or HS8's. Like I said before, I went the HS8 route and I like them a bunch more than the triple carbs, but that install isn't for the faint at heart; You have to get the intake manifold bored out to fit the HS8 and you have to fabricate the choke linkage and fuel lines. The HS6 is a much simpler installation, plus there are a billion needles for them. I'm sure with a little time, you could get a dual HS6 setup to run at least as good as the triple carbs.. with no mussing with linkages and the like.. either way, I would still get the Ratco linkage.. it's great thing.

Here is my HS8 setup with a custom dual-layered stainless heat shield.. it's not as cool looking as the triple carbs, but it goes like stink and the intake sound is MUCH, MUCH louder.

https://www.lastdeadlast.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/2008-08-10_141.jpg

Brosky
11-18-2008, 06:23 PM
After owning a tri-power GTO I had to do it to my TR6.

Goes like a bat outa ----, but it should with everything that I've done.

If you don't raise the compression and get the dizzy recurved and install headers, you are waisting time and money.

Just my learned opinion from my first installation.....and they really do look cool!

martx-5
11-18-2008, 06:41 PM
...I spent ALOT of time tuning them to get good idling characteristics and performance... try as I might, I could just get my setup to idle below 1300rpm. Another problem that many people that has had the tripps, is that after they get hot the linkages start binding a bit, which caused the idling problem I listed above. Performance was definitely better than with the dual ZS carbs, but then again, I had added cam, compression and headers at the same time.... but they looked SOOOO cool!



Funny thing, Tony at RATCO put on a triple SU setup on his TR250. I believe he has the HIF SU carbs (1 3/4"). He also complained about the high idle, although he says his is running more like 1800 rpm. He said he just cant seem to get it any lower. Is there anything we should be looking for?? I feel a little responsible, as he was having troubles with the Weber DGVs he had on there, and I kinda talked him into the triple set-up, preferably with SUs. It says that overall, the triple set-up works better, it's just that high idle he can't seem to get down. BTW, he has a compression increase and a pretty hot cam with headers. I haven't looked at the problem yet, but I'd like to help him out.

BobbyD
11-18-2008, 07:35 PM
Paul.......have you considered adding the Goodparts' Ram Air Induction (https://www.goodparts.com/shop/index.php?categoryID=3) to your car? I saw Richard's car last year at VTR and I was surprised at how good it looked. Plus all that nice outside cooler air getting forced to the carbs has to help.

Brosky
11-18-2008, 07:36 PM
Art,

Having been down a rough road when I first installed my triple ZS carbs with the "experimental" SOLID linkage that Jeff Palya was testing, I can suggest a few things. Is he using solid or flexible couplers? There are two versions of the same type of flexible coupler and one is a lot stiffer spring steel and is not forgiving at all when it gets hot. Put the softest or weakest springs on the shafts. They will hold just fine.

I would get the car on an emission sniffer and make sure that you are not running lean. Dead give away is fast idle that won't come down.

Assuming that you are not lean, disconnect the linkages that connect the carbs together and see if the idle comes down. If so, start by hooking up two at once and see when the idle goes back up. That would indicate misaligned intakes or misaligned throttle shafts.

The manifolds can be in perfect alignment cold, but can twist when hot. You have to find a happy medium, working from the center manifold and out to either side. Just a slight adjustment can fix a binding problem that takes place hot, but is not there when cold.

The alignment issues, when added to the stiffer flexible couplers can create the problem that you are describing. I know, because I've been there.

Brosky
11-18-2008, 07:38 PM
I looked at it Bob, but I like the three visible air cleaners. Besides, that box would cut down on the air sucking noise when at WOT!

swift6
11-19-2008, 10:46 AM
Besides, that box would cut down on the air sucking noise when at WOT!

I have a ram air set up on my triple ZS's. Yes it does quiet down the intake sounds. But I prefer the aesthetics of the polished box over the open element air filters. Different strokes and all that.

DanB
11-19-2008, 10:57 AM
https://forum.britishv8.org/file.php?3,file=1660

How about an EFI setup? This is a modified GM manifold using a Megasquirt controller on my '66 TR4A

Dan

DanB
11-19-2008, 10:58 AM
Apparently I did the photo wrong. You can go to the link though.

Dan

billspohn
11-19-2008, 12:25 PM
Apologies - this isn't a TR-6 motor, but the conversion is analagous. I built a manifold to mount triple HS6 carbs on an MGC engine. No compression bump, mild cam, built some headers, result was an hinest timed 130 MPH top speed (probably about 10 MPH increase over stock) and more torque throughout.

No problem getting it to idle like a baby, so no idea what is going on there.

On the TR-6 the triple 175s are a lot of carb, and I'd agree that unless you do head flowing, headers and cam, it is mostly just eye candy.

I like the 2" set up - very sensible for the street. For a high compression hot street engine, the straight shot of the triples would be worthwhile.

If the pictures look familiar, it is because two TR-4As gave their manifolds to the cause.

https://www.rhodo.citymax.com/i/non-rhodo/mgc1.jpg

https://www.rhodo.citymax.com/i/non-rhodo/mgc2.jpg

TR6BILL
11-19-2008, 12:39 PM
What did you do with the other MC/Booster?

billspohn
11-19-2008, 04:26 PM
Running a single system, British style.

billspohn
11-19-2008, 04:48 PM
BTW, that is a TR-4 master cylinder as I recall.

Trick6
11-19-2008, 05:41 PM
Contrary to advertising, the GP cold air induction box is not "forced air." It is an outside air pick up. More over, the box is another thing to pull off if you just want to deal with one carb.

I passed on the GP air box for the large individual air cleaners. I am told that some buyers could not fit the big air cleaners. I am using the carb isolators and the tall air cleaners all clearing the inner fender well (front carb). I left the 4" hole in the shroud for the outside air to inter the engine bay. Sometimes (real hot days) I place a 4 flex dryer duct in the hole to direct the incoming air at the air cleaners. It does not affect the water temp. Some fresh air is better than none.

Brosky
11-19-2008, 06:01 PM
I tried very hard to use the tall K&N filters that I got from Kai to match yours Al, but the front just would not fit.

TR6BILL
11-19-2008, 06:07 PM
As some of you know, I had the cold air induction box from GoodParts and didn't care for it. Mostly because I didn't like the looks + the model I got didn't have the built-in venturi's. I now have three 3" K&N round filters that fit tight but clear the fenders well. Plus I louvered the bonnet right above the filters.

swift6
11-19-2008, 06:50 PM
Contrary to advertising, the GP cold air induction box is not "forced air." It is an outside air pick up. More over, the box is another thing to pull off if you just want to deal with one carb.

Never claims that it is "forced" air. Which might actually allude to a supercharger type effect. He calls it a "Ram-Air" system because it ends up feeding pressurized air to the carbs (it is in effect forced due to pressure, but just slightly so). If you recall the "Ram-Air" on muscle cars, it is much the same idea.

It can be a pain to install/remove to work on the carbs. Add an "ARE" heatshield to the mix, which mounts between the carbs and the air filters/air box and the fun really begins! :wall: Mine has the velocity stacks built into it, which is sort of an added bonus. :smile:

Trick6
11-20-2008, 11:30 AM
I do remember the good old days of "Ram Air" systems. I remember that the air entered a duct that was connected to the carb(s). Most Ram Air systems (true ram air)were open to the outside to permit the movement of the car to pressurize the duct and carb enclosure. The GP system does not do t his. It picks up outside air from the front of the radiator. There is no ram effect. I could be wrong because I don't have this but as I see it, there is a shield over the external filter to protect it from rain and there by blocking the air from rushing into the duct. Hence, no ram effect. As I said, I could be wrong.

swift6
11-20-2008, 12:06 PM
The ram effect is generated by the high pressure are in front of the radiator. Much lessened if the radiator shroud is not in place or doesn't fit well. With the air filter in front of the radiator, the air has two places to go. Through the radiator (which is why the shroud helps with cooling) and the air filter. Yes the majority goes through radiator without a doubt but some is also forced through the air filter into the intake. It is minimal, and like the old muscle car systems, only has any real effect at speed. No forcing or ramming anything when the car is barely moving.

Again, its not a huge effect, maybe not even noticeable to the seat-o-the-pants dynamometer. But then again, neither were the ram-air systems of yesteryear. I like the aesthetics of the cold air box more than I truly believe there is some performance enhancing aspect of its "Ram-Air" capability. The cold air aspect is probably more realistic. With both the cold air box and my heat shield, my carburetors are cool to the touch after an hour of driving. Pretty amazing since my un-coated stainless steel headers put out a LOT of heat. :wink:

Trick6
11-20-2008, 12:44 PM
Paul:
I still can't figure why the 3" filters hit your fender and not mine or other users. I don't get it. I did measure everything before I ordered from Kai. I knew it was going to be close but I have no problem removing the front air filter to service the carb. I can even use the STE Air Flow Meter. I do have to squeeze it on at the front carb but it all works.

Trick6
11-20-2008, 01:21 PM
Shawn:
Your depiction of the workings of the Ram Air effect is spot on.

For cool air in the engine bay, I have left the 4 opening in the GP aluminum shroud. I am struggling with keeping the fuel to the carbs cool. I have wrapped the fuel line with tube insulation. It must help a little. But my fuel pressure regulator is mounted where the mechanical fuel pump was thereby the engine heat transfers to the fuel line at that point. I am coming up with some device to dissipate the heat and retain the regulator at that location.

Cool air and cool fuel would help tremendously in developing optimum HP.

Brosky
11-20-2008, 07:52 PM
It was a mystery to me too Al. I really wanted them after I saw yours up in Brookline at the show.

Now how is that 1,800 RPM idle problem coming along???????

tom628
11-20-2008, 11:28 PM
Shawn:
Cool air and cool fuel would help tremendously in developing optimum HP.


For cool fuel, I installed R. Good's aluminum fuel distribution block mounted on the horiz. surface over the passenger footwell, and plumbed with 5/16" rubber fuel line from the elec. fuel pump and along the batt. tray to the fuel block and then the 3 hoses to the carbs. It's a nice product, for about $35.

I retained 3 aircleaners, but fabbed their covers from 0.061" 6061 Al with a fly cutter. I sized them to be able to use the stock type paper air filters. Mounting holes for the F & R filters had to be offset slightly to allow clearance between carbs, but no other clearance or access issues. Filters are available (Puro) from any auto parts store relatively cheaply.

Tom

Trick6
11-21-2008, 08:08 AM
Paul:
Guess what caused the high idle issue? Binding throttle linkage. The Ratco kit is going to replace the existing linkage. I thought that I had it worked out but a little bit of heat expansion and, bingo. Those components really move around in there.

You told me some time ago to get the Ratco Kit. I fought the law and the law won. You are the best.

Brosky
11-21-2008, 08:38 AM
May there be peace in the valley and at every stop light when idling.

Here's my link on the Ratco: Ratco Cable Installation (https://www.74tr6.com/ratcolinkage.htm)

Brosky
11-21-2008, 08:47 AM
OK, after rereading this thread, that will take care of yours Al, but what about Tony's high idle problem?

Art, did you guys get to review that setup?

martx-5
11-21-2008, 09:49 AM
Tommorrow at the tech session at his place we'll take a look see.

Brosky
11-21-2008, 05:10 PM
Let us know what you find Art.

Monkeywrench
11-22-2008, 10:58 AM
You aren't getting any ramming effect with a cold air system at any speeds below 100mph, even then the gains are miniscule. You would have be traveling at 120mph+ to really feel any measurable difference.

All you are gaining with the Good Parts setup is access to cold air, which should work just fine. You're carbs however will be more finicky when it comes to temperature changes.

Brosky
11-23-2008, 08:41 AM
So Art, what was the problem with the high idle on Tony's car? Did you guys get it fixed?

martx-5
11-23-2008, 09:28 AM
We got so busy with two other cars, that we didn't have time to check it out. I did mention that we had discussed it here on the forum and that you guys had some things to look for. Maybe next week we'll see what's up. I'll keep you guys posted as to what we find. I may be back asking more questions.