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View Full Version : Type 16P brake calipers - replacements?



jjbunn
08-30-2008, 03:39 PM
Is there a modern, readily available, bolt-on replacement for the type 16P brake calipers? I read something over on sixpack about a Toyota type, but got confused as to whether they really are bolt on or not, or whether new discs were needed as well. Anyone know?

Also, I am still looking for a pair of TR6 wheels, in case anyone has a pair :smile:

Andrew Mace
08-30-2008, 05:42 PM
Search around the Internet; you'll probably find lots about this conversion, including debate on whether it's of such great value that it's worth doing! It can be virtually a bolt-on job inasmuch as I think some vendors now might be selling kits that make it all rather easier once you have the caliper.

Anyway, one very good write up may be found on the VTR web site (https://www.vtr.org/maintain/brake-conversion.shtml).

davidk
08-30-2008, 07:36 PM
Check out this thread. I did the conversion over a year ago and it's worked very well. I think I may have added more braking from the larger Morgan rear wheel cylinders, but they work well together with the Toyota Calipers.

https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/264012/Searchpage/5/Main/28125/Words/TOYOTA+/Search/true/Considering_upgrading_brakes_S#Post264012

jjbunn
08-31-2008, 12:31 PM
Thanks Andy and David.

Since one of my calipers is broken beyond repair, I need to replace the pair. It seems silly to search for original types if there is something more modern and better available.

TR3driver
08-31-2008, 12:53 PM
Two things to watch out for:

1) Early and late TR6 calipers were different, and took different pipes and mounting bolts. The holes in the caliper became a metric size, while the threads in the mounting plate remained SAE. Ditto the brake line threads. IIRC the Toyota parts are metric, so you'll need to source the special "adapter" pipes and bolts for your early TR6.

2) It's very important that the brakes match exactly from side to side (otherwise the car will pull badly when brakes are applied, a dangerous situation). So you can't convert just one side.


The stock front brakes are plenty adequate to lock the tires, unless something is wrong with them. Plus, with no proportioning valve or ABS, front/rear balance is very important on these cars and will be upset by any change in "stopping power". In other words, "improving" the front brakes may actually INCREASE minimum stopping distance, unless the front/rear balance is adjusted to match (typically by using rear cylinders with a larger bore).

70herald
08-31-2008, 12:54 PM
If your brakes are working properly, more modern will not necessarily make your car stop any faster. There are a HUGE number of variables involved in this. The first thing is that the front and rear brakes need to be reasonably balanced in terms of braking power. then of course the master cylinder needs to be properly sized for the brake cylinders.
My feeling is that if you want better braking power start by using ebc brake pads. However from what I think you are saying, you want to modernize for the sake of modernizing and I think that you will just make the job more expensive and more complicated with minimal benefit.

jjbunn
08-31-2008, 01:16 PM
Thanks Randall and 70herald ...

No, the only reason I am thinking of changing is that one of my front calipers was broken in my "two wheels" incident last weekend. The mounting tabs broke clean off.

Based on what you have said, it seems like I would be better to source a 19P unit, rather than go for more modern units on the front, so imbalancing the whole system.

Is that the gist of it?

TR3driver
08-31-2008, 01:48 PM
Based on what you have said, it seems like I would be better to source a 19P unit, rather than go for more modern units on the front, so imbalancing the whole system.

Is that the gist of it?
Well, that's my opinion, but lots of folks have done the Toyota conversion and swear it's "better". I suspect it depends a lot on how bad your old brakes were, and what other changes you've made to the car.

On my TR3 I had the opposite problem, the front brakes actually locked a bit early ... needed more oomph in the rear, perhaps because a previous owner switched to 9" rear brakes.

tdskip
08-31-2008, 02:09 PM
Hey Julian - nice to see you digging into this. Good luck with it, keep us posted and hang in there!

jjbunn
08-31-2008, 02:13 PM
Hey Julian - nice to see you digging into this. Good luck with it, keep us posted and hang in there!



Will do! Got any spare TR6 wheels?!

BobbyD
08-31-2008, 02:42 PM
Julian, I considered the Toyota conversion but stuck with the standard TR6 calipers and upgraded the rears to Morgan cylinders. My understanding is that the Toyota calipers will dissipate heat better and have less fade but stopping "power" really doesn't change. Here's a couple of interesting conversion links that I saved.

https://www.vtr.org/maintain/brake-conversion.shtml

https://www.turbo-tr6.info/tr6_brake_install.htm

https://www.turbo-tr6.info/tr6_brake_test.htm

LastDeadLast
08-31-2008, 03:23 PM
I honestly think the best improvments that you can do for TR6 braking are the tires... I think for an old car, the brakes on these things are pretty darned good even by today's standards.

tdskip
08-31-2008, 04:41 PM
Well, I might. I bought a pair of Panasport style rims that I am debating selling or using. If I end up using them then I will. Not sure of time line yet.

Wasn't there a set on eBay that was local to SoCal?

JamesWilson
08-31-2008, 05:55 PM
The piston area for the Toyota calipers is almost identical to that for the Girling, the pad area is considerably larger- around 30%.