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dirtbill
08-29-2008, 06:28 PM
Hello fellow Triumph owners:


I just picked up a very nice 76 TR6 (non overdrive), put about 500 miles on it and so far so good. It's got 78K and about a four year old body job (very good) with original colour yellow paint. Mostly new interior (except for the dash), good frame and running gear in very good order. Motor has been rebuilt and runs strong, has triple webers and header installed but single exhaust? I'll have plenty of weber questions later but here is the immediate issue:

A new wiring harness has been fitted and mostly connected, but the non essential connections are dangling under the dash and other places. I've starting tracing wires for the non working items (reverse lights, horns etc) I have the Bentley manual and have downloaded the wiring diagram everyone refers to here. Neither seems to agree with the car.

For example, the flasher relay should be in the driver's footwell (for left hand drive) according to the Bentley manual but its in the passenger well. Horn wires should terminate on the driver's side behind the wheel well, but in fact can be found on the passenger side.

Inside the engine compartment on the drive's side inner fender are two stacked relays, the top should be for overdrive the bottom the horn, in a non-overdrive car why would wires be connected to the overdrive relay (in fact why would there be relay at all), the horm wires when traced backwards connect to both relays?

Are these anomolies normal or do I have a frankenstein car?

Sorry to be so long winded.

Thanks

Bill

DNK
08-29-2008, 06:36 PM
Bill, what you need to do is find one of the MANY (I think they breed there) Ontario owners of TR6's. Compare notes and locations.Good Luck

tdskip
08-29-2008, 06:37 PM
Welcome Bill!

We're big on pictures around here since it makes diagnosis easier and is generally fun. No worries if you don't have them, but if you can post pictures it can help.

Sounds like you have yourself a good car!

TR6oldtimer
08-29-2008, 06:49 PM
What is the commission number on the car? If it has an O as a suffix, it had OD once.

dirtbill
08-29-2008, 06:58 PM
Thanks, you guys are fast!

I've got some pics, soon as I figure out how to post them I will.

CF 52673 U, non overdrive.


Thanks


Bill

dirtbill
08-29-2008, 07:21 PM
Here is first picture of the stacked relays:

dirtbill
08-29-2008, 07:22 PM
Picture of the horn wires (I think)

Brosky
08-29-2008, 07:37 PM
Welcome and hang around a while. Your fellow Canadians will appear shortly.

dirtbill
08-29-2008, 07:38 PM
OK one more, here the car from the outside:

Brosky
08-29-2008, 07:40 PM
Well, first of all, the man has great taste in his choice of colors, so he's a natural for this forum.

Secondly, he figured out how to post pictures properly to the forum on his third posting. That alone qualifies him for major engine repair!!!

MGTF1250Dave
08-29-2008, 07:48 PM
Aloha and welcome to the forum. Great looking car. If you are not a member now, I would suggest you join either a Triumph or British Car Club in your area. There is a section on the forum that allows you to search for other member's car club. In any case most clubs offer great support with the added advantage of including hands on help. This forum is also a great resource and help me numerous time.

dirtbill
08-29-2008, 07:56 PM
Brosky:

Thats a very nice looking car!

I see you have triple carbs, what are you running for exhaust?

I think my triple webers are choking on a single exhaust. I have an appointment on Tuesday with a local exhaust shop to give me a price on dual exhaust, if its significantly cheaper than a Monza set up and stainless I was thinking of going ahead (so long as he can give me nice chrome tips).

Funny thing about the colour, wasn't really looking for yellow, but I couldn't pass up the deal. Same thing happened to me on one of my bikes, I have a yellow 99 R1100s BMW same thing too good of a deal to pass on. The best part is I work for a Utility company and all our trucks are YELLOW! I should put the company logo on the sides of my vehicles and get them to buy my gas.

Bill

poolboy
08-29-2008, 08:04 PM
Welcome. The stacked relays. The one with the purple wires is for the horn. The one with the Brown wires is for the starter.
The turn signal flasher on US cars is in the passsenger side footwell. The emergency flasher is seen in your pictures forward of the fusebox.
Hope that helps.
Get a copy of your wiring schematic here:
https://www.advanceautowire.com/schematics.htm

Brosky
08-29-2008, 08:11 PM
Bill,

Thanks for the compliments. We minority color guys (non BRG/Pimento) TR6 guys have to stick together you know!!

I have Pacesetter headers and the Falcon stainless OEM replacement system (twin pipe) from the headers back. My engine is modified quite a bit as you probably saw on my site, so I have no problem using all three carbs.

DNK
08-29-2008, 08:21 PM
Bill,

Thanks for the compliments. We minority color guys (non BRG/Pimento) TR6 guys have to stick together you know!!

....
Minority, a plethora of them yellow ones on this site . I think the minority is the Baby s...Brown

dirtbill
08-29-2008, 08:21 PM
Poolboy:

Thanks, no brown wires to either relay, only one brown wire coming out of the harness anywhere near here goes to the fuse box.

Am I correct in assuming the wires at the front of the engine compartment on the passenger side are for dual horns? Pair one: brown/ white with red, pair two: black/ purple with yellow

If so tracing backwards: black and brown trace to lower relay, purple to upper relay white doesn't trace back at all which confuses the heck out of me.

Thanks

Bill

Brosky
08-29-2008, 08:28 PM
Plethora???? Give me a break.

You know that we're out numbered. There's just me and poor ole' BobbyD down in CT. The Pharmacist has gone into seclusion and we are on an island surrounded by sharks.

Then you guys with the TR8's start throwing out those 250 ++++ HP numbers...

What's a poor old TR6 owner to do but feel bad???

dirtbill
08-29-2008, 08:57 PM
Being very white and male, I've never been refered to as a minority guy before.

What next am I a victim of Triumph ownership?


Bill

Brosky
08-29-2008, 09:22 PM
Bill,

It's not you that's the minority, it's the beautiful color of your car. There were not a lot of Mimosa or Inca Yellow (only one year for that color name- 1976) TR6's produced in comparison to the BRG and Reds.

I guess that Don is correct in that the brown is probably less than ours.

DNK
08-29-2008, 09:23 PM
It's a gag me with a spoon color :jester:

Brosky
08-29-2008, 09:26 PM
A little late night testiness again??? And in front of a NEWBIE! For shame....

DougF
08-29-2008, 09:30 PM
Does anyone have magenta?

Brosky
08-29-2008, 10:01 PM
There is a 73 Magenta frame off restoration in Boston, MA that is absolutely gorgeous. We usually park side by side at the Day of Triumph to show the color differences, but I didn't make it this year. I'm sure that he won first place again.

poolboy
08-29-2008, 10:16 PM
Poolboy:

Thanks, no brown wires to either relay, only one brown wire coming out of the harness anywhere near here goes to the fuse box.



Bill
My mistake, Bill. If you look at the schematic, you'll see the "bulb test relay". As you say..no brown wires.

dirtbill
08-29-2008, 11:08 PM
Poolboy:

No big deal, I think I should start my horn tracing from the steeringwheel end anyways, am I correct that the power wire goes to the horn and the circuit is completed by the horn button grounding out?

One more question, the reverse light switch is a bit of a mining job underneath the tunnel cover which involves removing seats etc. It appears to be fed and fused from the same green wire that powers the tailights and the neutral safety switch (which is also not working). If this is the case do the two (neatral and reverse switches) impact one another?

OK so two more questions, this one is probably simple for one who understands wiring better than me. Flasher relay works for left signals but not right, all bulbs working for both signal and hazard, this cannot be a relay issue and has to involve something wired wrong in the right signal circuit. Is this correct?

Thanks guys a few more questions and I think I'll have a handle on it.

Bill

DNK
08-29-2008, 11:33 PM
There's a neutral safety switch?

dirtbill
08-29-2008, 11:46 PM
DNK:

That's what the wiring diagram says, but I won't be suprised when I peel the carpet and tunnel cover off and find that it's not there! (it also depends on the year, neutral switch is '75, '76 no switch)

The manual refers to two overdrive switches, a reverse switch and a seatbelt safety switch (but not a neutral safety switch) all located on the transmission housing.

I guess the only way to know for sure is dig in.

Bill

DNK
08-30-2008, 12:00 AM
Sorry ,mines a 71 and it never even had the seatbelt buzzer when I got it. One warning, those seat safety switch can be a real pain. Best to check the archives and bypass it before it won't start and you end up scratchin your but for a day trying to figure what went wrong.

tdskip
08-30-2008, 08:02 AM
One warning, those seat safety switch can be a real pain. Best to check the archives and bypass it before it won't start and you end up scratchin your but for a day trying to figure what went wrong.

Agreed - both Kevin and I had strange behavior that was immediately solved when we jumped the circuit related to the seat belt warning/cut off / saftey switch.

Let us know if you need the link for that.

08-30-2008, 08:06 AM
It's a gag me with a spoon color :jester:

Put downs coming from a guy who's engine sounds like a cast iron frying pan hitting an anvil. Life is good huh Don? :lol:

.

poolboy
08-30-2008, 08:31 AM
Poolboy:

No big deal, I think I should start my horn tracing from the steeringwheel end anyways, am I correct that the power wire goes to the horn and the circuit is completed by the horn button grounding out?


Bill, I try to visualize the horn operation as 2 circuits because it uses a relay. The circuit from the horn button to the ground on the steering rack activates the relay.
After the relay is activated, the new circuit is from the fuse thru the relay to the horns themselves. Each horn having it's own ground wire (black) to complete that circuit.
Pushing the horn button, makes a ground in that circuit (via steering column/rack/frame) and enables the relay to supply power to the horns.

TheSearcherMan
08-30-2008, 09:05 AM
I'm not reading all the thread, but, apparently the single large pipe, with the 6/3/1 header puts out more power/torque than a dual pipe, if it is sized right.

TR6oldtimer
08-30-2008, 09:51 AM
I'm not reading all the thread, but, apparently the single large pipe, with the 6/3/1 header puts out more power/torque than a dual pipe, if it is sized right.
I seem to recall reading the same thing. The '76 came with twin exhausts, so given the money the PO put in the car, I would lean to giving the PO credit for doing it right. Go slow on modifying the exhaust, I think a little more research is needed.

dirtbill
08-30-2008, 01:06 PM
I'll look into the pipe issue, right now it has six into two into a large collector outletting into two (which I suppose is the end of the header) then right back into a Y to a single pipe which ends with an ugly supertrapp muffler. It's too loud, and not quite right sounding in my opinion. But still it begs the question why all the fuss over Monza (and other) exhaust systems?

As for the horn, if the relay doesn't work I suppose I can wire the horns direct if necessary. Assuming I can get that done today I will have resolved almost all the electrical issues except for the reverse lights and a couple of dash lights.

Things are looking up! Thanks for your help.

Bill

DrEntropy
08-30-2008, 01:50 PM
I'd be for using that relay in the horn circuit, Bill. Makes for a LOT less load on the horn button contacts. If the relay is suspect, you can get a replacement from NAPA or the local auto parts house.

poolboy
08-30-2008, 01:50 PM
I doubt if it's a problem with the relay. It's easy enough to check, though. The only problem, I've had with these old type electromagnetic relays is carbon build-up on the point style contacts. You can remove the metal weather cover and clean them up, if necessary.
I wouldn't consider running the horns w/o a relay. Not that you won't get them to sound, it's just going to be a lot of amps trying to push thru the wiring in the steering column.
You can get an electronic relay for the horn as a replacement, for just a few bucks at an auto parts store.

TheSearcherMan
08-30-2008, 03:56 PM
No offense intended, but the wiring is over your head, you should find a mechanic, or a local club to help you with this. This is the best advice I, or anyone else in this forum can give you.