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TheSearcherMan
05-08-2008, 05:18 AM
Well, I finally done it. I bit the cannon ball and ordered an Innovate, I like to have a device to tell me what I all ready know, and it was more cost effective than a wife. Also, talking to the dyno people, but I thought why dyno a car with ZS carbs? However, I could be wrong. If the mixture is in the ballpart, and it just can't be, between 3.8 and 6 krpm, I drive it on the dyno. But if it's not, I most likely won't. I have the needles in the full up position, and lowered the jets, and there's more to it than that, but, I still think it's lean at higher rpms. We will see, I could be wrong. If I do dyno, I will also see who is right about timing advance. IE, how much power at the TR5 total setting versus say the USA experts who say 33. I'm betting on what the British people say. On the funny side, last time I talke to Joe Curto, I asked him if there was any chance he was going to change the last 4 digits of his phone number from SUSU to ZSZS, he said he didn't think so...........Could there be a hidden message there?

martx-5
05-08-2008, 06:52 AM
Wide band is the way to go, but it is alot more costly then then narrow band. If I was going electronic fuel injection, this would be the way to do it. I have a Westach (https://www.westach.com/gauge_images/2C5-56.gif) analog AFR gauge on my supercharged Miata and was able to detect a five pound loss of fuel pressure at full throttle due to a <span style="font-weight: bold">slight</span> dip in AFR. Never felt any difference in the butt dyno. This is using the stock narrow band that is on the car. I plan on using the same setup on the TR3, as I think it will give me as much info as I need...at least alot more then just setting the mixture at idle and hoping for the best during the rest of the operating conditions. The nice thing about the Westach gauge is that it is buffered, so the dithering back and forth is averaged out more. The response lags a bit because of this, but overall it's easier to read then the flashing lights of most AFR gauges. Of course, data-logging is better yet.

aeronca65t
05-08-2008, 06:54 AM
What's an "Innovate"?

05-08-2008, 07:09 AM
It's a device that interprets the output from a wideband O2 sensor and converts it into a linear voltage suitable for either putting to a gauge or into an ECU for fuel injection.

You mount the sensor in your exhaust and it tells you whether you are running lean or rich.

Google Innovate LC-1 or LM-1 for more info.

05-08-2008, 07:12 AM
Well, Also, talking to the dyno people, but I thought why dyno a car with ZS carbs?

Why not?
At least you'll know how well it runs.

Weren't you the one telling everyone how cheap dyno runs were the other day? Now you'll be able to brag what a great tuner you are too.

aeronca65t
05-08-2008, 08:23 AM
It's a device that interprets the output from a wideband O2 sensor and converts it into a linear voltage suitable for either putting to a gauge or into an ECU for fuel injection.

You mount the sensor in your exhaust and it tells you whether you are running lean or rich.

Google Innovate LC-1 or LM-1 for more info.


Ahh! OK, now I see what it is.

Looks handy.

I usually just unscrew the plugs after each event and look at them.
Less handy but more my style (low tech). :jester:

Mickey Richaud
05-08-2008, 08:26 AM
It's a device that interprets the output from a wideband O2 sensor and converts it into a linear voltage suitable for either putting to a gauge or into an ECU for fuel injection.

You mount the sensor in your exhaust and it tells you whether you are running lean or rich.

Google Innovate LC-1 or LM-1 for more info.


Ahh! OK, now I see what it is.

Looks handy.

I usually just unscrew the plugs after each event and look at them.
Less handy but more my style (low tech). :jester:

You Luddite, you!

<span style="font-size: 8pt"> Me, too! </span> :jester:

Mickey

05-08-2008, 08:31 AM
It's for the instant gratification crowd.
Perfect for me in other words...

TheSearcherMan
05-10-2008, 06:17 PM
Well, got the Innovate 3 hrs. ago, and the verdict is in. I suspect mine is running like Broskys, somewhat rich on full throttle, 12.4, and lean at idle. I have to decide Webers or some type of FI. Where is my wallet? There is no way these things will idle right and run the right mixture full throttle. Well, no reasonable way.

foxtrapper
05-10-2008, 08:22 PM
Don't get hung up on the "correct" needle trap. If what you've got doesn't work, identify it and figure out what other profile will work better. To heck with the books and oem spes and such.

The ZS is eminently tunable.

Trick6
05-12-2008, 09:11 PM
Foxtrapper:
Where do you get your ZS needles? The Haynes Weber Carburetor Manual has a chart of Stromberg needles in the back and when you read it you can envision the needle profiles. I am finding out that there are very limited suppliers of needles out there. I would like another set (of three) but can't find a supplier. I called Curto and gave him a number that he says does not exist. Well, I am not in a hurry because I have to get the AFR monitor first to sort things out. I have a good plug read now with the B1AF's (just a little soot) and a good tune up. I feel I am close but you don't know with out the AFR monitor.

Brosky
05-12-2008, 09:26 PM
I have a very complex Excel spreadsheet that you can plug a needle number into and it will give you a graph and complete breakdown of the entire (13) thirteen points of measurement obtained from each and every needle made.

You can start with your stock needle and go in any direction with a new needle number for rich or lean and see exactly where the differences will occur.

I have to get out of here now, but if anyone wants it, please PM me with your email and I'll send it out tomorrow evening.

I believe that it's the chart the Richard Good and Joe Curto use for those instant answers.

poolboy
05-12-2008, 10:15 PM
modify needles (https://www.jetlink.net/~okayfine/su/troubleshooting.html)
The above linc can tell you how to modify a needle that you can get.
There are tables as was mentioned in this thread that give the diameter of the available needles every 1/8 of an inch.
I knew a fellow who was pretty good at customizing needles. He'd find the spot that he wanted to enrichen and spin the needle inside a strip of emory cloth.

LastDeadLast
05-13-2008, 06:49 AM
I finally put my new carb setup the lm-1 yesterday.. gosh is it running rich!!!...

I'm running mid 11's at cruise, waaay too rich! But shoot-howdy.. it's right in the mid 12's at full throttle... and feels good, still a little rich though! Time to call Joe Curto for a new set of needles.

foxtrapper
05-13-2008, 10:48 AM
I simply got a fistfull of needles at a swap meet. My very high tech aproach to the tuning was to try the different needles, and run the ones that worked the best. Which happen to be a non-existent set (77?).

Trick6
05-13-2008, 03:25 PM
Brosky:
I have that same spreadsheet. Think Richard Good sent it to me. It actually gives you a visual profile of the needles' relationship being compared. Real slick little tool.

I am still guessing until I get the AFR monitor.

Brosky
05-13-2008, 07:00 PM
Here's a picture of it for those who missed it on the other thread.