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Brosky
05-01-2008, 05:52 PM
First, thanks to all for the kind comments. This has become one of those projects that takes on a life of it's own.

Fortunately, I have a trusted friend and first rate technician in Erik, who has the uncanny ability to read my mind when it comes to how I want the car to be, so I can allow him to take the time to do what it takes to make it right, cause I ain't doing this again!!!

With that being said, there was a lot of tedious work done today with the heater hoses and carbs, headers, etc. The pictures below don't show things quite as they will be yet, because the cables and some wiring looks like its not run to the proper spots, but by this time tomorrow, they will be. So don't get excited, the heater hose will not bind the throttle linkage or run against the wiring for the headlamps and radiator fan.

So now that we figured pout that the water outlet will have to be changed to use the SS radiator hoses and have the new upper hose pre-bent to shape, tomorrow will get us very much closer to a running car.

So here we are tonight...........

roofman
05-01-2008, 06:19 PM
You must be an insanely rich man. Thats freaking awesome.

05-01-2008, 06:32 PM
You must be an insanely rich man. Thats freaking awesome.

Even if he was - he isn't any more...
:laugh:

trrdster2000
05-01-2008, 06:35 PM
Well, that looks real serious and I bet it runs as good as it looks.
Oh, I have your same haircut, what are the odds.

Wayne

Brosky
05-01-2008, 06:47 PM
Wayne,

You have Erik's haircut, which nature is hard at work developing for one for me!

That's the Master Mechanic referred to in my posts. He is the owner of Her Majesty's Service in Swansea, MA.

2wrench
05-01-2008, 07:12 PM
Daddy, you okay??? You look kinda, well, g-r-e-e-n.

Oh, do I honey? I was just looking at Brosky's
car.

Daddy, you okay?

What now, honey?

You're drooling out of the corner of your mouth. You
sure you're okay?

I'm fine, Honey....and yes, I'm still looking at
Brosky's car.

Brosky
05-01-2008, 08:34 PM
2W,

Yours is gonna look great with the silver/black too!! I like looking at the different tastes and combos on all resto mod cars.

Any updates since we last spoke? You were mentioning something about the clutch? Do you need any help with that?

TR674
05-01-2008, 08:38 PM
Paul
just two words from me......ENGINE PORN!!!!!
How do the ss heater hoses clamp onto the fire wall tubes?
Regards
Craig

Brosky
05-01-2008, 08:44 PM
Craig,

I got them from Summit Racing. It's reinforced heater hose with a SS cover that then has the polished aluminum billets slid over before you slide the hose on the fitting. There are hose clamps built into (hidden in) the billet that you can see if you look really close at the bottoms.

The radiator uses the similar type billet clamps on the hose ends, only larger with twin clamps in each, but the hose is solid stainless steel pipe that is bendable. Pics tomorrow night.....

2wrench
05-02-2008, 12:22 AM
2W,

Yours is gonna look great with the silver/black too!! I like looking at the different tastes and combos on all resto mod cars.

Any updates since we last spoke? You were mentioning something about the clutch? Do you need any help with that?

I'm sure I will. Thanks for checking. Days been starting bout, well,
from 2:30 to 3:00 am and getting done round 9:30 10:00 o'clock at night.

Also, gotta look at some books so's can have more intelligent questions.
(Can I do such a thing?) I've not dropped out, honest. I'll be here with
all the questions you probably wish I wouldn't ask, you know?

I am very excited for you, Paul. You went over the top good, this time.

70herald
05-02-2008, 12:37 AM
So now that we figured pout that the water outlet will have to be changed to use the SS radiator hoses and have the new upper hose pre-bent to shape, tomorrow will get us very much closer to a running car.



Paul, I have been thinking about replacing my rad with something similar (I want an Al rad stock item meant for a SBC), and have been considering the same SS hoses, etc.

I think that the following water outlet would do the trick:

Thermostat cover (https://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2D371101&view=1&N=700+150+ )

If you found something else let us know.

toysrrus
05-02-2008, 05:50 AM
Hi Paul,

I just want to say; "I LOVE THOSE TRIP STROMBERGS"!!

And everything else your doing!!

Have a Blast,

Regards, Russ

Brosky
05-02-2008, 07:33 AM
70H,

I'm wondering if the base gasket is the same? It would be ideal, but I don't know if it will fit. I can't get to mine for a few hours, so I'll have to wait to measure it.

EDIT: I saw these before and NOW I remember why I didn't order it. I did want the chrome outlet but the HOOD clearance at the front is so close, that with it being higher, I would have a problem. The front carb on the triple carbs has about 1/4" clearance between the oil cap and the hood. We had to modify the mounts to get that.

Brosky
05-02-2008, 07:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]I just want to say; "I LOVE THOSE TRIP STROMBERGS"!![/QUOTE]

Russ,

Thanks for the compliments. Now I get to start tweaking them again for a newer, better breathing and higher compression engine. I think that I'll be going a little bit richer this time.

DrEntropy
05-02-2008, 08:00 AM
You're doing the carb tweaking with an analyzer, yes? I'd caution about goin' too fat: washing the walls with too much fuel will get you premature ring wear. Shoot for the 13:1 across the range would be my WAG.


...you GOTTA be havin' too much fun, Bub. :envy:

Brosky
05-02-2008, 08:12 AM
I will Doc. I'm at about 12.5 with the carbs now. I have a built in NGK Digital Air/Fuel Ratio meter and we're going to add Erik's to the tailpipe when we tweak it in. I added that when I was getting BIG fat readings at the top end on the dyno and straightened that out easily with the meter.

I just thought that it would require a bit more adjustment with the higher compression, etc.

05-02-2008, 08:27 AM
Paul,

Please tell me you will definitely be at Larz Anderson this year so I can see that in person. It's a work of art.

.

Brosky
05-02-2008, 08:51 AM
Stirkle,

I will be there for British Car day at the end of June with the Cape Cod Club and with New England Triumphs for the Day of Triumph a little later on.

I look forward to meeting you personally, more than showing the car. It's nice to put a face with a fellow BCF contributor.

RobT
05-02-2008, 09:09 AM
I have those Larz Anderson dates in my diary too!

BTW - Paul: Did you get my PM about the RI British Car Parts Swap? Right in your back yard.

And a wonderful looking engine. You can never have too much shiny metal under the hood.

Rob.

Brosky
05-02-2008, 09:16 AM
Rob,

Our nephew is having a First Communion that day, so we can't go. I've been there before and it's a great time.

Tinster
05-02-2008, 05:28 PM
A thing of beauty to behold.

d

Stig
05-02-2008, 09:50 PM
Stunning!

Brosky
05-02-2008, 10:03 PM
Stagnant for now would be a better description, but thanks anyhow Dale &amp; Stig.

The weathers lousy for convertibles this weekend anyhow.

Yup, that's what I keep telling myself......

Stig
05-02-2008, 10:07 PM
Its been sunny and 85 all week, and will continue through the weekend. My pistons are on the workbench. Parts to be delivered next thursday, and then you watch....the Florida monsoon season will set in. no luck

Brosky
05-02-2008, 10:23 PM
You are dead right on that!

Nothing brings on a three day rain faster than a freshly tuned engine after an overhaul or a Saturday morning 3 hour wax job.

DrEntropy
05-02-2008, 11:16 PM
We're comin' into rainy season. 4PM daily event.

Brosky
05-03-2008, 06:47 AM
Yes Doc, but yours start and stop within an hour and the sun is back out and it's warm again. We're in day three with rain showers, no sunshine, low 50's temps and more of the same tomorrow.

BUT...........Monday, when we all go back to work, will be sunny and warm!!

Trick6
05-03-2008, 12:41 PM
Paul:
I have just taken the middle carb off to set the flaot. Had a llitl leak. Since it is down, I would like to replace those two spring throttle shaft connectors with the barrel ones you have. Where did you get those beauties?

Brosky
05-03-2008, 01:41 PM
Have you been peeking at my old tri-carb conversion? I had to remove those due to constant binding issues both hot and cold. You didn't read into the updates with the Ratco.

I spent over 10 days and countless hours tweaking those to try to get it right and with the individual manifolds and rates of expansion, you need the flex shafts even more.

They may possibly work on a solid manifold, like the stock unit, but not with the GoodParts setup.

DrEntropy
05-03-2008, 09:07 PM
The tri-carb throttle shaft issue with GoodParts manifold is it needs an amount of "flexibility" t'wixt the shafts. I been watchin' the threads and wonderin' about "solutions" to it. Anything I come up with would be certainly elegant... but NOT as simple as the combo spring clips/clamps Paul has now. Don't "re-invent the wheel" here!

:thumbsup:

tom628
05-04-2008, 12:48 AM
Hi Al: I was intrigued by Paul's solid throttle shaft connectors , for possible use on my triple ZS system, but didn't pursue it when Paul reported the problems he had.
Shortly thereafter, Randall posted a link to a company that makes a lot of small mechanical parts, in response to an inquiry unrelated to carbs. Here's the link:

https://sdp-si.com/eStore/Direct.asp?GroupID=200

I ordered Part No. A5Z 7-11010

It has a 5/16 bore to fit the throttle shafts, and is about 1.18" in length. Rigid, but tolerated some angular and parallel misalignment.
I had a problem with the length of my throttle shafts, so this was an excellent solution for me. If your throttle shafts almost meet, it may be too long w/o shortening one of the shafts.
I like them much better than the folded spring couplers.

Tom Note
76 TR6

Brosky
05-04-2008, 08:40 AM
Very interesting. So the body is a polyurethane with steel collars? Good concept and with the heat, it may allow enough flex to work well.

My big problem with the solids was that when it was warmed up, I could get everything aligned and set perfectly and the idle was at 850 RPM. Then after the car cooled it would stick at 2,000RPM, so I'd slightly realign the carbs and all was well until warm up and I'd have to start all over again.

Again, I gave it a lot of time and effort and when I thought I had it, a problem would arise, so I bagged the effort and chalked it up to experience. Having a throttle that will stick at times is not part of my planned performance from my car.

Like I said, with a solid manifold that won't flex like three individual units, these would be great. I was all hung up on having the neat appearance of the solids, but I don't think that I've ever looked at the folded couplers again, since I installed them.

For the hassle and aggravation involved, I guess that I just lost interest and moved on to other projects. Which may or may not have been a good thing.....

TheSearcherMan
05-04-2008, 09:02 AM
The solution is Webers, you will not find any needles that work for the ZS, Jag included. ZS's ain't going to do what you want to do. Either Webers or FI. Why spoil your fun? You already know it, listen to that voice inside of you telling you this, don't give in to the dark side of the force.

Brosky
05-04-2008, 09:25 AM
Searcher,

You keep talking like that and I'm going to have Tony lock this thread!!!! FI, maybe, Weber's, never!!!

My B1AF needles work just fine and tweaking the carbs with my A/F Ratio meter tunes them right in.

It's funny to remember a show last fall with a guy next to me with Weber's. He pulled in and was revving the car and making all sorts of noises as I just sat there minding my own business. Everyone around oohed and ahhed the Weber's and in all fairness, they do look MEAN.

So after about 20 minutes, along comes a well known guy who owns a local LBC repair shop. Now the show is getting packed and I'm getting a lot of attention and so is the Weber car. Someone decides to ask us to start the cars up and listen to the engines. So I reach in from outside, turn the key and it fires right up and idles nicely at 850. I rev the engine a bit from under the hood and everyone is smiling, so I shut it down.

No he has to start his and what a disaster. It won't start for two minutes and when it does it won't idle. Now I know why all of the noise was made pulling in. I felt bad and he was embarrassed. Turns out the local guy was on his way over to help him tune the carbs after hearing him pull in. He knew that it wasn't running right and spent nearly an hour getting it to idle.

After the mechanic finally got it to idle and made an appointment to re-jet the Weber's and fix the mess, he grinned at me and said "Smart move buddy!" as he walked back to his display.

That was enough for me about Weber's on a street car. I do believe that if you are racing, they are the best, so I know their value. I just don't think that I need another $2,000 for those issues.

Now Alan's fuel injection is another story. A local guy here in RI is fuel injecting his TR6 with a package out of Maine, as we speak and I will be seeing that soon, so more to come about that. I believe that he is doing the throttle body conversion.

BobbyD
05-04-2008, 10:06 AM
Paul,
Is the RI guy doing Rick Patton's https://www.pattonmachine.com/ TBI conversion? If so, it's a nifty package, easy to install and the car runs great after. Nothing for Tri-carbs yet, but it's in his future plans. The next time you're driving through Wallingford, give me a call and I'll show you the TBI set up.

Brosky
05-04-2008, 10:20 AM
That's it Bob. And I should have remembered the name because I have his Fan Eliminator Kit.

I'll be interested to see the tri-carb product when it comes out.

Number_6
05-04-2008, 11:05 AM
Searcher,
You keep talking like that and I'm going to have Tony lock this thread!!!! FI, maybe, Weber's, never!!!
Hi Paul, How about Triple SU's? Would they fit under the hood of a TR6? They're a lot less aggravation than Weber’s. I've heard that they deliver virtualy as good response and power as webers.

Brosky
05-04-2008, 11:16 AM
#6,

I don't know of any triple SU available to fit the GP manifolds, or I probably would have gone that route when I did the swap.

BobbyD in CT has done the Patton throttle body swap and Elysium in RI is in the process of doing it now. IF and I mean IF, I ever decide to change something and I'm not because I'm perfectly happy with my triple ZS setup, I would probably lean towards the TBI. If no one has come up with any SU swap out by now for this, I doubt they ever will.

Now if someone designs a cast aluminum manifold that is one piece and incorporates a triple TBI setup that will bolt on and off and is tunable (programmable) for varied street and performance engines...........now that might be something worth looking into.

I don't know who is worse at stirring this FI stuff up, Alan or Searcher.

Number_6
05-04-2008, 11:56 AM
#6,

I don't know of any triple SU available to fit the GP manifolds, or I probably would have gone that route when I did the swap.
I see, I've never looked into it, so I didn't know what's available. I'd have thought someone would offer a triple SU set up. I've always thought the triple SU's on the E Jag really look the business.
I had intended to convert the Jag to tripe SU's.

DrEntropy
05-04-2008, 11:58 AM
:lol:

As for the Weber thing, the only car in the pile of my sigfile *without* DCOE's is Diesela... she can't run with th' big kids anyway so it ain't a bad thing. :devilgrin:

There is *nothing* wrong with the trip Strommie setup. When they're right, they're FINE!

TheSearcherMan
05-04-2008, 01:07 PM
"This was an ideal setup on an MGB with a Weber.", Interesting quote from you. Oh, and Alan, I appreciate you sharing your dyno results, wish others would do the same.

05-04-2008, 05:13 PM
A friend had triple SU carbs on his GP intake. Worked well. Also, last years NO car show had a fella with super-tuned trip Weber DCOE carbs. I was embarrassed how easily his started and idled. But his 6 cylinder coupe was set up for rallye (which he did in Africa) and was, well, super tuned.

swift6
05-04-2008, 07:23 PM
As Bill says, Triple SU's will fit just as easy as triple ZS's on the GP manifold. The ram air unit for ZS's won't fit them but GP makes a ram air box for the SU's as well. The HS-6's, with their side mounted float bowls can be a tight fit though. The throttle linkage is different too so that would also need to be addressed.

Neil Revington (Revington TR) was in Fort Collins a few years ago and was looking at my TR6. He thought the ZS's were fine, agreed that the HS-6's would be a tight fit but do-able. The hot ticket in his opinion was to go with Triple HIF44's since they have integral float bowls like the ZS's.

I originally planned to use triple SU's on mine but at the time the cost to totally rebuild the SU's tipped the scale. Typically, it is easier for a TR6 owner to do the Triple ZS option since they already have two to begin with.

I did originally have an issue getting the stock needles to work with my set up. Altitude was the killer in this case. Joe Curto helped pick the right needles for my situation. They do happen to be from a Jaguar, a V12 E-Type with an automatic transmission to be specific.

TheSearcherMan
05-04-2008, 07:24 PM
SU would be the way to go, However, I am being told you can get 140 HP off 2 SU's by someone in the Fatherland, ie GB. But, then again, to me, its all about driveabiliy, not just HP. I have yet to see any dyno results from ZS carbs, would like to see some, other than Kasners. That said, I spoke to someone who got a 135 from his 6 on Webers, and he was working for Weber at the time I believe. What this means is, to get 140 from 2 SU's, you would need a more radical cam, and higher compression, which means no driveablilty. He also said he wouldn't want to be driving his Weber car at 7000 feet. So, I guess the rockies would be out of the question.

BobbyD
05-04-2008, 07:25 PM
Maybe the answer is........1 carb per cylinder!

https://www.prirace.com/gt6induction1.jpg

Here's a place https://www.prirace.com/carbs.htm that adapts motorcycle carbs to various Triumphs. I met a guy at the CT Triumph Show last fall that was running duel Mikuni's and loved them.

Now we're officially way off topic :square:

swift6
05-04-2008, 08:03 PM
SU would be the way to go, However, I am being told you can get 140 HP off 2 SU's by someone in the Fatherland, ie GB. But, then again, to me, its all about driveabiliy, not just HP. .....

.....He also said he wouldn't want to be driving his Weber car at 7000 feet. So, I guess the rockies would be out of the question.

Other than easier tuning and larger needle choice, I have yet to see anything that would prove to me that an SU is capable of flowing more than the comparable ZS. If you can tune the ZS's in with a CO meter, the extra needle choice advantage of the SU takes on less importance. The SU's are simpler and you don't have to worry about torn diaphragm's.

I'd be happy to show you a dyno result if it was accurate, the only one I have is with the wrong needles and a worn out distributor. So it really wouldn't be a valid comparison. Even with a horribly wrong mixture and very poor timing control I still put down almost 120hp at the rear wheels. The torque curve was nearly flat from about 2800rpm to 5800 rpm as well.

As far as crossing the Rockies with Weber DCOE's, you could still do it if you wanted to re-tune your Weber's after about every 2000 feet change in elevation. Wouldn't that be fun, especially since you would also have to change your choke size. That, in and of itself, is why I won't put Weber's on my TR6. Both SU's and ZS's handle the elevation changes much better. Since it is very easy for me to go from 5,000 feet to 10,000 in feet in one hours drive time, that is a very important factor. Fuel Injection is on my to-do list. Looking at a few different ways of doing it. None of them are inexpensive.

TheSearcherMan
05-05-2008, 06:12 PM
Well, what you meant to say is, the test was accurate, but the car wasn't up to snuff. You left out 2 very important things, one you can sorta get around the other you can't. The one you can't get around is the temperature compensator. Sure, do what they told you to do, disable it by screwing it in, then, on a warm day, you will run rich and load up at idle. Now don't tell me this ain't so, cause I know from my own experience it is. As far as the bypass is concerned, I have my own idea's about what that really does, but I blocked mine off, and there is a sacrifice. Put your car on a dyno with an air/fuel indicator, I don't think you will ever get the mixture right, you think it's right now, but do you really know? Around here a dyno test is about 60 bucks for 3 pulls, you show me 120 HP at the rear wheels with the right mixture across the range,from 3 ZS's and I'll pay you the 60 bucks, hows that? Heck, I'll go one better, you show me 110 HP with the mixture close across the range and I will pay you the 60 buck dyno fee. Ah, this includes idle. Free dyno test, can't beat that. It ain't going to happen is it? You got a paypal account?

swift6
05-05-2008, 11:52 PM
Well your right that the test was accurate. What I meant by not accurate was that it wasn't representative of a correctly tuned system. Yeah my temperature compensator's are effectively disabled, but even if they weren't I'd still have an issue with loading up under prolonged idle. The high lift cam sees to that. Enough so that it would happen with Weber's or SU's as well. It won't even idle smoothly below 1100rpm. Please, do tell what you think the bypass does and what you sacrifice and/or gain by blocking it off.

When it was on the dyno, it did have an air fuel indicator sniffing away at the exhaust. That's how I knew the mixture was horribly wrong. That's also how I knew the needle profile was wrong. Once it was past the 'just off idle' segments, where the profile was all wrong, the mixture was very even all the way to 6000 rpm. It was also extremely rich but it did hold a steady mixture.

I know where your going, your trying to prove that fuel injection is better than carburetors. Any carburetor on a performance engine will have difficulty fulfilling your stacked bet. Even SU's or Weber's! Add the 'drive-ability' into the equation and EFI is the only way to go. Notice I said EFI not PI. The PI systems tend to run rich at idle, specially with your favorite CP series camshaft that had idle issues as well.

If you want EFI than stick with it and go for it. You don't have to disparage anyone using ZS's (two or three). Just because someone told you SU's were better. I've worked with ZS's, SU's and Weber's. They all have their pluses and minuses. Eventually I will inject my car because, yes, it is the best compromise between power and drive-ability. But just like any other form of tuning, it is based in compromise. There is no golden egg.

05-06-2008, 08:37 AM
Paul,

You might want to Keep those Goodparts manifolds :laugh:

https://extrudabody.com/Products/Datsun6a_sm.JPG

https://extrudabody.com/Products/ITBs.html

swift6
05-06-2008, 09:58 AM
So, keeping the GP manifold would allow for three ITB's. I wonder how it would compare to three of Rick Patton's throttle body conversions. :computer:

DNK
05-06-2008, 10:01 AM
Now that is porn and I have to leave the computer for a minute. :jester: :devilgrin:

I have to have that!!!

TheSearcherMan
05-06-2008, 06:00 PM
I like that. I don't see why Rick Pattons deal won't work if you use a Megasquirt. Anybody know?

Brosky
05-06-2008, 06:08 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]I wonder how it would compare to three of Rick Patton's throttle body conversions.[/QUOTE]

I plan to visit BobbyD in CT one of these days, probably at the Harkness Brits by The Sea Day, and compare notes on this topic. Rick is working on a conversion package for the triple ZS as we speak. Maybe it will be next years project.

swift6
05-06-2008, 11:28 PM
I like that. I don't see why Rick Pattons deal won't work if you use a Megasquirt. Anybody know?

I think Rick is trying to do it as a 'plug &amp; play' type system. Megasquirt would probably work just fine.

TheSearcherMan
05-08-2008, 05:01 AM
Hey Alan, it's early in the AM and I just got a great idea, why don't you sell me your manifold, for $50-75 bucks, and get you one of the extrudabodies? Sound like a good idea to you? (PS) just kidding!

Trick6
05-09-2008, 02:36 PM
Paul:
My car is the test vehicle for Rick Patton's TBI conversion for the tri carb set up. You can have the 1st kit in production.

A guy in Colorado did a tri carb TBI for a Healey. I tried to contact him but he never returned the emila. BobbyD has the info.

Brosky
05-09-2008, 03:00 PM
Thanks Al, I'm sure that will make my wife very happy.

BobbyD
05-10-2008, 08:36 AM
Rick's TBI conversion will work just fine with MegaSquirt or any other ECM that you're skilled enough to "program". For simple folks like me......I needed a plug &amp; play installation. He offers the option of buying the whole kit or just the adapters and TPS. There's more info here https://www.pattonmachine.com/Pricing.htm

He's sold a number of adapters that have been fitted to a wide range of cars. My personal favorite is the Land Rover from Finland though there is a "Z" that will be at LeMans this summer with his kit. The last car on his Customer Car page is a TR6 with MegaSquirt as the ECM. https://www.pattonmachine.com/CustomerCars.htm

Trick6
05-10-2008, 11:41 AM
TheSearcherMan:

You have found the car to respond to your search. Up here, a dyno session will cost $100. I will accept your $60 and add the $40 to show that the tri Stromberg is developing more than 110 HP. I do have a Paypal account. I will call for a dyno appointment, usually a week out. Which dyno do you want me to use? There are two here; Mustang (wheels/tires on roller) and the DynaPack (replaces the wheels). Since you are paying, you choose.

TheSearcherMan
05-10-2008, 12:30 PM
The offer wasn't made to you, your car has alot more modifications. Remember the other part, mixture in the ballpark, including idle. I may still do it, but I am not paying for your previous dyno test. Also, I will want to see the charts, showing , HP, Mixture, and Date.

swift6
05-10-2008, 03:42 PM
I believe the offer was made to me unless I misjudged the post timing and response. Trick6's engine and mine are actually fairly close. I have a wilder camshaft, different header and exhaust but otherwise they are very close. Even the decking of the block is close, I'm beyond zero deck and Trick6 might be as well. Mine breezed right past 110hp at the rear wheels with a poor state of tune and without altitude correction.

BTW, from other TR6's dyno runs that I have seen, with completely stock cars, the drive-train loss is almost exactly 20%. I've seen three stock internal (though fairly fresh rebuilds) TR6's run on a dyno. One used a stock air filter set up and exhaust (late car with dual down-pipe and exhaust), one had K&amp;N air filters and the Twin Sports Dual exhaust. the last one had K&amp;N filters, a Moss Header and a Monza exhaust. The rear wheel hp for all three were in the mid 80's.Pretty straight forward proof to me that the only thing the different intake and exhaust options did on an otherwise stock internal engine was change the sound. Both the suck and the blow. :wink:

Brosky
05-10-2008, 06:22 PM
The best that I could get on the dyno last summer was 89 HP at the rear and I was way too rich at the top. I'm looking forward to doing it again this summer.

TheSearcherMan
05-10-2008, 06:41 PM
I wouldn't disagree with you at all Swift, however I mite point out the other part, mixture in the ballpart, at idle and through out the range. He also has 10:1 compression and different ratio roller rocker, I would assume somewhat of an increase with this. Are you running the same compression and roller rockers? I just ran mine with the Innovate, ZS's just won't work, at least if you have another life, and don't have time for hrs and hrs of experimenting. I will probably try to make an appointment for a dyno run next week. I want to know what I get from Webers or FI. If stock is mid 80's, I am running more than this, cause mine is no comparison to stock, they're sick. By the way, I ran 12.4 AF at full throttle, and say 15-16 at idle. Idle sucks.

Trick6
05-10-2008, 09:02 PM
OPPS. Did I step into something? I thought that the offer was open to tri carb 6's.

I do not expect you to pay for an old dyno test. I thought that this was to be a new dyno test, not old ones. I am willing to do another dyno test with you selecting the dyno. Heck, the old one was Jan 07 with the wrong needles, the motor was way rich. I really don't want to take your money because this is a friendly world, but my car is over 110 HP now without induction and FI.` If you still wish to do this, just tell me your rules. I will send you all records in PDF format untouched. I will also video tape the session if you like. Just tell me where you are comfortable. Oh, by the way, I won this tear on many bets I placed with the Giants to beat the Patriots and win the super bowl, without the points.

TheSearcherMan
05-10-2008, 09:24 PM
So, are you saying you are running a somewhat correct mixture from idle to say 5800?

Trick6
05-10-2008, 10:20 PM
I am not sure what you mean by a correct mixture from idle. Please explain. Are you saying to stay about 13.5 to 15 AFR from idle to peek HP production?

The last dyno test indicated a lean mixture of 15.5 at 1700 RPM and I that is where the load started. It then went rich pretty quickly recording 11.5 at 3000 and then 11.0 at 3500 and remained there to 5200. The O2 was taken with a tail pipe adapter. I did not have the O2 sensor bung at the time. I attempted to lean it by screwing out the needles until they floated but there was no change. WRONG NEEDLES. They were not the stock B1AF's. I am now running the stock needles and it is much better. I actually had to screw these fully in to get some soot on the plugs. I have a pretty nice plug read now but the dyno will tell the tail. I am after an O2 sensor set up now that I have the bung welded in the SS header collector.

swift6
05-11-2008, 11:49 AM
I wouldn't disagree with you at all Swift, however I mite point out the other part, mixture in the ballpart, at idle and through out the range. He also has 10:1 compression and different ratio roller rocker, I would assume somewhat of an increase with this. Are you running the same compression and roller rockers?

He is running more total compression, but we are using the same ratio roller rockers.



I just ran mine with the Innovate, ZS's just won't work, at least if you have another life, and don't have time for hrs and hrs of experimenting. I will probably try to make an appointment for a dyno run next week. I want to know what I get from Webers or FI. If stock is mid 80's, I am running more than this, cause mine is no comparison to stock, they're sick. By the way, I ran 12.4 AF at full throttle, and say 15-16 at idle. Idle sucks.

If you don't think you will need lots of time and dyno runs to dial in the Weber's even close to your demanding standards, you better think again. Regardless, you still won't get the exact even mixture across the rev range that you seem to be looking for without going to fuel injection and extremely accurate O2 sensors.

I think you're actually making a mountain out of a molehill. Unless the lean mixture is close to melting your pistons or the rich side is washing down your cylinder walls with fuel, you're chasing a level of efficiency not possible with carburetors. Which is why modern manufacturers don't use them anymore.

What are you running and what have you done to your engine?

TheSearcherMan
05-12-2008, 04:41 PM
Well, when you say what am I running, I can have it either way, lean at idle, and, likely I can get the full throttle close enough, or, I can run idle from 14.3 to 15, and run rich at full throttle. You have to have an A/F meter to see it, but, it won't idle right above 15. Also, when you rev the engine up, and it comes back to idle, it stumbles for about 20 seconds, the meter shows why, it goes into the 20's on the A/F meter, and then settle down to the 14. 7. In other words, it don't idle smooth if you are running lean. I'll keep playing with it, and you are right, I am being picky. I don't have any air leaks either. I have a GP 2, 9:1 comp., TR5 dist. curve., thats it. Note, today it is 20 degrees colder, idle mixture is over 17, thats to be expected. I am going to move toward EFI. I'll get the original manifolds, remove and plug the throttle shaft holes, use one throttle body, and use Megasquirt, and extrudabody fuel rail, Ford pump, and most likely Ford injectors and throttle body, and MAP sensor. At least thats the plan now, could change. I'll also install the larger valves, do massive P&amp;P on the head, and most likely a CP cam, and maybe roller rockers.

swift6
05-12-2008, 05:26 PM
Have you tried different springs and viscosities of oil in the damper assemblies?

Trick6
05-12-2008, 08:41 PM
Swift6
That is the right question. Damper oil. I am using ATF in the damper. It allows a quick flight of the diaphragm. There is a lot to learn about the Stromberg. It is simple and responsive. But you need to note what you changed and what the motor did. And change one thing at a time to record cause and effect.