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View Full Version : For debate: Replace or rebuild a master clyinder



tdskip
03-23-2008, 10:40 AM
Hi guys - time to kick-off another debate.

Would you rebuild or replace a master cylinder whose seals have failed (probably due to sitting)?

How about the clutch reservoir?

What say you?

martx-5
03-23-2008, 10:51 AM
I would pull it apart and see what the condition of the bore is. If it's in good shape, rebuild. On my TR3 resto, I rebuilt one cylinder, and bought one new one, as the bore in the second one was very pitted.

Brosky
03-23-2008, 11:08 AM
Brakes are a touchy subject with me. Everyone's opinion about this will vary, but I replaced everything with new. After 34 years, I felt that it owed me nothing.

On the other hand, others will say that it's fine to rebuild. Personal choice, but if pitting is an issue, but then I'd have it sleeved by Apple or one of the others who do it day in and out for a living.

You only get one shot in an emergency when you hit the pedal. To me, that justifies the expense needed to suit ones desires, whatever they may be.

14dna
03-23-2008, 11:43 AM
:iagree:

Right on Paul.

When I worked for a motorcycle dealer, we had a sign that said
"if you have a ten dollar head, buy a ten dollar helmet".
I feel this applies to brakes as well. If you can stop and steer it, all else is annoyances!
In 40 some years in the business, I've found very little reason not to replace long term parts with new.
Just my take on it.

Dave

TR3driver
03-23-2008, 12:38 PM
In 40 some years in the business, I've found very little reason not to replace long term parts with new.
Not even all the new parts being sold that are clearly defective ?

That (and cost) would be my chief reason for rebuilding (after careful inspection). I _know_ the castings I have are the right alloy and machined properly. But an acquaintence is out many $1000 after the cam gear he bought for his Stag turned out to not be properly hardened.

And also because frequently the new replacements don't look and fit like the originals did. For example, the replacement MCs sold for my TR3 have angled connections that require adapters, while the originals were straight and no adaptor.

70herald
03-23-2008, 12:56 PM
If the only problem is the seals, then I would use the old one without the slightest bit of hesitation. I used a scotch pad (plastic scrubbies) to clean the inside of mine. Run you finger over the inside, it should be nice and smooth.

Because the brakes on my car (like many of them here) are a single hydraulic system, I occasionally put all of my weight down on the pedal (while parked) and hold it for a while to make sure something isn't about to burst. I have not yet found any leaks or other problems on the cylinders that I rebuilt.

angelfj1
03-23-2008, 01:22 PM
You may have seen my post about some of the crap parts (TR-3 fan)I have received from the "big three".

https://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q159/angelfj/TR-3A%20Project/fan-1-sm.jpg


If the master is original try to rebuild it. OEM parts are, in general, better quality. Try to get an OEM rebuild kit. New, reproduction parts are a gamble!

Good luck!

toysrrus
03-23-2008, 01:34 PM
Hi There tdskip,

In my opinion, such as Brosky`s, I don`t mess around when it comes to stopping power!! :nonono:

"REPLACE EVERYTHING"!! The initial cost will pay for itself some 10-15-20 years from now!! :driving:

Regards, Russ :banana:

Don Elliott
03-23-2008, 01:40 PM
I make sure that my handbrake works just fine. I test it several times a summer.

Randall - The master cylinders on my 1958 TR3A (TS 27489 LO) came with the outlets like in the photo. In about 1963, I had to replace one and the Leyland dealer said that the angled one had superced the straight up ones. So at TRA, I lost points becuase one was straight and one was angled. I found an old one that is correct for my car, but I had to have it sleeved. I put this one on the clutch line so the one for the brake is the 50 year old original one.

TR3driver
03-23-2008, 03:29 PM
My point exactly, Don.

BTW, what is that black tube running through the MC area ? Screen washer perhaps ? My cars have only had a plug in that hole, even the 3A that was originally fitted with a screen washer (mostly missing by the time it came to me).

Brosky
03-23-2008, 06:17 PM
See, it's all a matter of personal opinion and preference.

Whatever floats yer boat!!

rotoflex
03-24-2008, 08:28 AM
If you get a new one, save the old one as a spare to send to White Post to be rebuilt next time.

The new clutch master cylinder I got about 12 months ago is leaking already. They don't make them like they used to, so keep the old ones for rebuild.

tdskip
03-24-2008, 09:06 AM
If you get a new one, save the old one as a spare to send to White Post to be rebuilt next time.


White Post?

PeterK
03-24-2008, 09:13 AM
They don't make them like they used to,

Right on brother! Same applies to most things. Lots of the new repro stuff is disposable, produced for the lowest bid; old stuff was designed to last and be rebuilt when necessary. So, if the cylinder bore can be honed smooth, I rebuild. At least this way, I know it's done correctly.

Good example:
Our 28 year old top of the line US made Maytag washer has never skipped a beat. Our new top of the line LG stainless steel kitchen has a dishwasher that is whisper quiet BUT doesn't clean the dishes, has had to be serviced 4 times in the past 2 years, and takes 2 hours and 17 minutes (has a nice digital display to tell us) for the "normal" cycle. Our LG french door refrigerator has already had replacement plastic parts (no warranty on these) already too.

Opa
03-24-2008, 09:13 AM
White Post resleeves cyl. like Apple hyd.check 'em out at www.whitepost.com (https://www.whitepost.com) ,located in White Post VA.

Don Elliott
03-24-2008, 10:17 AM
Randall - About that black hose. You are correct. It's the windscreen washer hose. It seems like an easy solution. I couldn't remember if the original one was there till I checked my 1987 photos before the restoration. For the longest time, I had a clear vinyl hose but black is correct as vinyl hose was not used by S-T for this in 1958. Maybe it hadn't been invented yet.

My washer bottle etc, was installed by the dealer after I ordered the TR brand new here in Montreal in May, 1958. Therefore, the hose could have been just about anywhere. At TRA in 1992, the judges docked me a point because "the washer plunger button is in the wrong place", they said. I explained that it was a dealer-installed option and that's where it was when I took delivery of the car. TRA has since allowed for this.

Notice the inclined master cylinder for the clutch with the adapter you mentioned. BTW this photo shows the condition of my TR after 80,350 miles from new. Except for the clutch master cylinder, everything you see here is on my car today with 178,000 miles.

tr8todd
03-24-2008, 10:19 AM
Buddy of mine just sent a clutch master and slave to be rebuilt by White Post. After shipping, it was nearly $200. He could have bought new ones for less. We'll see if they last any longer than stock girling units.

70herald
03-24-2008, 12:34 PM
They don't make them like they used to,

Right on brother! Same applies to most things. Lots of the new repro stuff is disposable, produced for the lowest bid;

If I needed a new master cylinder, I would order this:
Wilwood master cylinder (https://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=WIL%2D260%2D6579& N=700+4294922533+4294839072+4294852250+4294805100+ 115&autoview=sku)

It should swap in 1:1 and is available in versions with remote reservoirs. Just need to add a clevis. Wilwood is high quality part and will be better quality than allot of the junk some of the suppliers are trying to pass off on us.

Twosheds
03-24-2008, 12:35 PM
A friend of mine sent all seven cylinders to White Post to be sleeved. It was about $1500. They messed up his brake master, but he sent it back and they fixed it. They don't test the cylinders. You do!

vettedog72
03-24-2008, 02:05 PM
Gag, gag I sent WP (and have since received) what I would call a relatively complecated remote brake servo with a remote slave master cylinder for rebuild. It LOOKS beautiful. If it fails the "test" it will play the devil to remove and redo. Sure hope it works. It may be 9 months before I "test" it. The other cylinders they have done have been great.

PeterK
03-24-2008, 02:16 PM
They don't make them like they used to,

Right on brother! Same applies to most things. Lots of the new repro stuff is disposable, produced for the lowest bid;

If I needed a new master cylinder, I would order this:
Wilwood master cylinder (https://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=WIL%2D260%2D6579& N=700+4294922533+4294839072+4294852250+4294805100+ 115&autoview=sku)

It should swap in 1:1 and is available in versions with remote reservoirs. Just need to add a clevis. Wilwood is high quality part and will be better quality than allot of the junk some of the suppliers are trying to pass off on us.

Agree. That's the cylinder that I am using for the clutch on my 4A (with the HVDA kit). But the reservoir is smaller than a 4A master and the cap is plastic. Girling cap won't fit on it. I used to use Wilwood calipers on my race car an is good quality.

I'm using a TR6 setup with booster for brakes on the 4A.