PDA

View Full Version : Chinese Cams



bobh
03-04-2008, 09:58 AM
With all the talk about cam failures I wonder where the cam blanks are made. Hopefully not in China. Everything I've read recently says to use chilled iron cams and chilled iron tappets. Take a look at this link.

https://www.gasgoo.com/show/product/27418/Camshaft-4d55-56.html

"Production Description:
Specifications:
Product description:
As one of most important parts of an engine, camshaft can harm the engine badly when it was broken. Our camshaft are mainly made from steel bar material to guarantee the quality, because chilled cast iron material in our country is not so good, casting type camshaft was easy broken enven in trasporting."

2wrench
03-04-2008, 10:04 AM
I got my fingers crossed.

poolboy
03-04-2008, 10:10 AM
It's really a shame that you can't count on getting something like a cam for a 30+ year old engine that will be dependable.

tomshobby
03-04-2008, 10:25 AM
Somewhere a company will wake up and do it right and that company will capture the market.

But wouldn't a plastic cam and lifters cost less? :sick:

03-04-2008, 10:47 AM
What market? Realistically how many of these engines are left?

How many cams a year do you think that equates to; especially compared to a Ford or Chevy v8?

hondo402000
03-04-2008, 10:50 AM
being a manufactureres rep and selling castings that come from china, I can tell you for a fact that china can, will and does supply excellent castings, However the importer in the USA has to make sure the part meets metalurgy, and hardness and dimensions My company has an exporter in china that tracks batchs, checks parts for dimemsions and metalurgy before it leaves the dock. If it fails the foundry gets the metal back and we tell them do it again Once it leaves the dock you own it, Maybe thats why when the parts get here and the US company figures out its not quite right, do they make a decision to let it slip by as not to loose money???? you decide

Norton47
03-04-2008, 10:52 AM
Wouldn't this make a great reason to have the original cam repaired by welding it up and regrinding it, by a reputable shop?
Mine had some worn lobes and that is the course recommended by by machinist and the one that was taken.

beaulieu
03-04-2008, 11:00 AM
most of the aftermarket cam blanks seem to be coming from Turkey ,

They had a booth at the Sema show (the parts show at the other hotel)

Andrew Mace
03-04-2008, 11:09 AM
...Maybe thats why when the parts get here and the US company figures out its not quite right, do they make a decision to let it slip by as not to loose money???? you decide To paraphrase the old Fram filter commercial: "You can lose money now...or you can lose money later (from dissatisfied customers who spread the word)!" In my thankfully limited experience with defective parts, the top vendors gnerally are very happy to know of defects and will do everything they can to rectify the situation.

tomshobby
03-04-2008, 12:02 PM
Hondo, I was being facetious. I am sure that there are some good ones, but it is a certainty that there are also bad ones. Why are we having such a difficult time sorting them out? It was mentioned that we are a relatively small market. I agree but that is no excuse for bad parts.

The off the dock policy seems a good reason for an American manufacturer to not buy Chinese. Kind of a "ha ha, we got one over on you" policy it seems.

Is it possible for you, with your experience, to help figure this out?

vettedog72
03-04-2008, 12:29 PM
Wouldn't this make a great reason to have the original cam repaired by welding it up and regrinding it, by a reputable shop?
Mine had some worn lobes and that is the course recommended by by machinist and the one that was taken.

Now that's what I'm talking about. Did you polish the lifters or just use them without prep?

How many miles have you put on the regrind?

TR3driver
03-04-2008, 02:13 PM
However the importer in the USA has to make sure the part meets metalurgy, and hardness and dimensionsWhich of course most of them do NOT do.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] My company has an exporter in china that tracks batchs, checks parts for dimemsions and metalurgy before it leaves the dock. If it fails[/QUOTE]Assuming of course that your exporter is telling you the truth (and that their sub-contractors are telling them the truth, etc.). There is effectively no legal remedy if they decide to cheat you, so their only risk is losing your business. If they find someone else that will pay them more ...

There's even a chance that they've been directed to cheat you by the Chinese authorities. If you followed the story about toxic pet food a year or two ago, the Chinese gov't eventually admitted that they permitted the addition of toxic waste to "improve" the food. https://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/2007-04-26-pet-food-china_N.htm <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] Maybe thats why when the parts get here and the US company figures out its not quite right, do they make a decision to let it slip by as not to loose money???? you decide [/QUOTE]Unfortuantely we DON'T get to decide. The US vendor must decide if the damage to their reputation is worth more than the value of the parts they would have to junk. While I've not been privy to any internal reviews, I think it's a safe bet that it takes a rather high rate of returns for parts being "defective" before they even consider scrapping the entire batch. And I'm not convinced they track returns well enough to even notice when the rate becomes excessive, at least not until it starts showing up in the balance sheet.

Some years ago I complained in public about a part that simply did not fit the advertised application. Vendor rep replied (in part) "We've never had that complaint before" ... which I knew was wrong as I had complained myself, directly at their parts counter! Of course he could have simply been lying, but my belief is that they just don't track such things very well.

angelfj1
03-04-2008, 04:54 PM
I am beginning to understand why companies such as TSI charge such high fees to build an engine. It's much more than time and materials. Assumming that his source for engine parts is the same as our's, he probably sorts through several "new" components before he finds one that meets his required specification. Call this a crude form of quality control, but this way he protects his reputation. And, why worry because the guy paying $5-7K for an engine is paying for all the "waste". Perhaps "we" should ask the suppliers for a copy of their specification for the more critical (engine) components. I bet the don't have one!

P.S. I'm not picking on Ted. In fact, I admire him. He spends most of his time now catering to the racing folks. Of course they are more demanding but they are generally funded by a sponsor and can afford to pay for quality.

Brosky
03-04-2008, 08:07 PM
I believe that the cam that I'm getting from Greg at BPNW is cast in England, where they've been made for over 40 years.

YankeeTR
03-05-2008, 10:30 PM
I believe the term "chilled iron" is used in error. Isky made a "chilled iron" cam and lifter cam back in the 50's and 60's but I haven't seen one offered in years. Today most flat tappet cams are cast or billet.

I sold an old Ford Flathead "chilled iron" cam on Ebay a few years ago and it brought some pretty hefty $$$ from a guy bulding an old circle track modified.

As far as Chinese quality goes there is none...

Norton47
03-16-2008, 08:08 AM
Sorry Vettedog72
I have had computer problems and tight schedules.
I have just gotten the engine in and have had it running about 5 times. I hope to go down the road for a 30 mile break in drive in a couple weeks.

03-16-2008, 08:48 AM
Aren't Chinese cams made from lead? Everything else from there seems to be...

Tinster
03-16-2008, 08:55 AM
Aren't Chinese cams made from lead? Everything else from there seems to be...

When the Mrs and I toured China we ate Chinese yams on several
occasions. Tasty indeed with a little bok choi and mystery meat.
I'm all for importing Chinese yams.

d