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Joel Simmons
03-14-2004, 09:02 AM
Aloha,

Just your friendly LBC-less lurker stopping by once again.

I was wondering if anyone could give an opinion on what a decent driver would cost nowadays. A previous post here described a clean $6500 Tiger that supposedly sold via eBay, yet another one mentioned a $41,800 Tiger. Are these 'normal' prices for a Tiger?

mahalo,
Joel

graemlins/cheers.gif

thegoodbeamer
03-14-2004, 02:07 PM
A clean Tiger for $6500 seems too good to be true.I sold my 65 for $18000 Canadian.Thats about 13,500.US. It was nice aND CLEAN,100% mechanical but not a concour show car. I have seen prices as high as $50000 US but that is a car far better than ever left the factory.As Tigers get fewer and fewer prices will be up there.Just look at what some people are asking for original Tiger parts.
graemlins/canpatriot.gif coolgleam.gif and its sunny again

JM1NA
03-14-2004, 02:43 PM
I've been researching Tigers lately, and no, I won't be purchasing one at the current prices they sell for. But, I wasn't able to find much info on Alpine conversion, or "Algers". Is dropping the V8 into an Alpine a real horrendous job? I remember something about the steering rack having to be moved or something?
I could see a V6 conversion being easier, but at least an 8 would be closer to original...

jfslenes
03-14-2004, 05:14 PM
Prices seem to range all over the chart. As an owner of 2, just hope the inflation continues.

A HS friend made a trip to my area to look at 2 or 3 for sale cars. Ranged from low $20's to mid $30's. He chose one later for mid $20's that is very clean and well cared for. Probably on the restored end of the spectrum.

Purists hate the idea of an Alger. Anything with a V8 works for me. In fact, an aluminum 215 sounds good. Anything light, that fits, and has cubic inches works in any car.

Joel Simmons
03-14-2004, 08:13 PM
Aloha,

I figured that the $41k car was a concours car, which is not what I'm going for. So does mid-teens to upper twenties sound about right for a clean driver?

Sometimes looking at these classics gets so depressing. When I was a kid going to the track with my Dad, these cars were only 15 - 20 years old and were affordable. Now that I have the means to get one on my own (any classic car) they are just sky-rocketing in price as they become fewer and fewer. Sheesh.

Get one while ya can I suppose...

graemlins/cheers.gif

mahalo,
Joel

P.S. - I've even thought of going the "replicar" route. It 'looks' like a classic, but is brand new with modern internals. No rust!

[ 03-14-2004: Message edited by: Joel Simmons ]</p>

JM1NA
03-14-2004, 08:38 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joel Simmons:
"Sometimes looking at these classics gets so depressing. When I was a kid going to the track with my Dad, these cars were only 15 - 20 years old and were affordable. Now that I have the means to get one on my own (any classic car) they are just sky-rocketing in price as they become fewer and fewer. Sheesh."

Ya, well, one of the reasons why I finally bailed on the Brit car hobby. I can't afford it on my income anymore. It was cheaper for me to sell the spit for a good price and go into debt to buy a used miata. I paid hardly any interest on the loan, haven't put hardly any money into the car in the 18 months I've owned it.
I grew tired of spits, 70's MGBs, and minis, and really only want something like a TR4, 250, early 6 or early MGB. A good one is twice what I paid for the miata, and will still take dough to upkeep, so I will do without until I win a lottery or have a nice brit model I want fall into my lap.
It is depressing..... images/icons/frown.gif I mean, c'mon, is a TR3 really worth 30+ G's?

Joel Simmons
03-14-2004, 10:49 PM
Aloha,

Yeah Miatas are definitely more reliable and require less maintenance, but I kind of like having to get my hands dirty and bust some knuckles to keep the little cars running (VW experience here). I'll put up with breakdowns, which give me an excuse to upgrade/modify the parts.

I dunno. I mean a TR3 is not worth $30+ to me, but I would be willing to spend a good amount of money on a classic car for the sake of driving a classic. If I were put in the position of being able to spend $15K on a brand new Honda Civic or a well-sorted LBC of my choice, I'd opt for the LBC.

~Joel

graemlins/cheers.gif

Bob Claffie
03-15-2004, 01:44 AM
Yes, Joel, that $6500 Tiger was real. It was advertised on at least two web sites and several print media. By the time I called on it the guy had changed his answering machine message to say " Tiger is sold" before saying anything else! Average one on ebay a couple weeks ago (which I lost out on with 34 seconds to go) sold for a little over $8k, and another real nice looking one didn't sell after getting the bidding up to almost $20K. Saw one today on another web site for $45K but was a full blown rotisserie restoration. There out there but, but not enough for those of us looking for one. Probably only two on your whole island. Bob

vagt6
03-15-2004, 11:01 AM
I heavily researched Tigers before buying my Triumph last year.

I'd be extremely wary of ANY Sunbeam Tiger with a $6500 sale price. Just too good to be true.

But, stranger things have happened. Two years ago a friend of mine bought a '62 Corvette with 33,000 miles in good condition for $8,000 from a private owner who advertised it in the local paper under a "Chevrolet" heading (no mention of Corvette).

Some folks have all the luck!

pmenhusen
03-15-2004, 11:51 AM
I had a 289 Ford V8 put into an Alpine. The mechanic who did it (who has built numerous street rods) said that if he'd known what he was getting into, he never would have agreed to do it. If you're interested in the details, I can put you in touch with him, but the bottom line is that there is much more involved than in your typical engine swap. A much easier swap that can give you nearly the same performance is the V6, because there are kits available for this. If you go to www.sunbeamalpine.org, (https://www.sunbeamalpine.org,) they have one discussion board for those wanting to restore to original specs, and another just for those making conversions. If you decide you want one with a swapped engine, it's probably less expensive to buy one that's already been done. One advantage of having a converted car is that you don't have to worry about keeping it original, so you can make changes such as dual-reservior brake master cylinder, electric fuel pump, and electronic ignition.

thegoodbeamer
03-15-2004, 08:50 PM
First of all there is a tiger now on ebay and the price is cheap.I think bidding was at $3500.If one has the bucks and time and skill then go for it.I still would be leary unless I did a personal inspection or knew the owner quite well.
Second putting the 289 into the Alpine can be done.Yes there is a lot to do.The 289 still has lots of room.We run a 351 windsor,5 speed and 8 inch ford rear end in the 64.
Basically to go the 289 route is new recessed firewall.Back of carb is almost touching cowl.New transmission tunnel to accomadate tranny.Convert steering to rack and pinion.Motor mount brackets to buy or replicate.Transmission mount needed as wll the x frame must have mounting points for the mount.
That is basically it in a nutshell.
graemlins/canpatriot.gif coolgleam.gif but its sunny

JM1NA
03-16-2004, 10:35 AM
Ya, I've been watching that Tiger on Ebay(not that I'm buying). Pretty rusty...
Was the 260 an easier engine to drop in as opposed to the 289? I know it was the first V8 in the Tiger line, but I figured the dimensions would be about the same between the two, maybe I', mistaken on that...

Ron

pmenhusen
03-16-2004, 11:27 AM
I believe the exterior dimensions of the 260, 289, and 302 are the same.

thegoodbeamer
03-16-2004, 01:15 PM
The external dimensions are basically the same.The 260 and 289 are the same.Slight difference for the 302. a 351 has a deck height of almost 2 more inches which makes for a higher and wider motor.You can't run headers with the 351 as there is no room.I thought of going out the fender but the extra work wasn't appealing.Like custom headers etc.The 289 or 302 is a nice conversion if you want to do the V8.However a 2.8V6 is easier and you can easily obtain 200HP.this can and will allow you to blow by many V8s.

MikeP
03-16-2004, 02:41 PM
I have to admit that I always wondered why Ford and Rootes didn't switch to the 289 earlier in production. Since all of Ford's small block cars went to the 289 in the late 64/early 65 time period, (if I recall correctly), I would have thought it would have been more efficient in production and supply terms. As it was the Tiger engines were sent from Ford's Canadian industrial engine division, so technically we all got heavy equipment engines rather than auto ones...

Bob Claffie
03-17-2004, 01:37 AM
I think, for all practical purposes Ford was dumping their left over 260's. I believe by late '64 they did not have a production car that used that motor. As far as swapping, I made a switch from 260 to 289 back in 1966. Used the motor out of my wifes 1965 Mustang. One problem not anticipated was the non-match with the bell housing. Some engines use 5 bolt housings and others 6 bolt. And Ford in it's infinite wisdom did not make a bell housing to mate the Tiger Dagenham transmission with the Mustang 289 engine even though both engines were from the same model year. Had to have an adapter plate made. Bolt the trany to the adapter and the adapter to the (original) Mustang housing. Ironically had no trouble bolting the Mustang 3 speed to the Tiger housing to put the 260 back in the Mustang. Bob

Sherlock
03-17-2004, 03:12 AM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Joel Simmons said: Sometimes looking at these classics gets so depressing. When I was a kid going to the track with my Dad, these cars were only 15 - 20 years old and were affordable. Now that I have the means to get one on my own (any classic car) they are just sky-rocketing in price as they become fewer and fewer. Sheesh.
<hr></blockquote>

Hey Joel, I hear you, I've been wanting a classic car for a few years now, now I'm getting closer by the day with the Cortina. But if you lower your expectations (within reason) a classic can be more affordable than you realize. I know some folks on here wouldn't call a 1960's Austin Cambridge "classic" images/icons/grin.gif , but an older British car like that - even in decent shape - can be purchased for very little money with some shopping around. And even if it's not a sports car it's still a classic British car. That's one of many reasons why I have always liked some of these "orphan" cars, in terms of price they're a great entry point into the old car hobby.

And the same rule of thumb applies the same for many other import and even domestic cars, an entry level 1960's Rambler or Peugeot or ??? can be a cheap entry-point to a classic car and also a good way to learn old car maintenance and upkeep (as I'm about to learn graemlins/crazyeyes.gif ), and then later on in life you can think about affording the car you really want... Although in my case the only sports car I truly lust after is a Lotus Seven or suitable equivalent (Caterham, Westfield, Birkin, kit, etc...) But I suspect it will be a few years for that car to join my stable...

[ 03-16-2004: Message edited by: Sherlock ]</p>

Joel Simmons
03-18-2004, 09:14 AM
Aloha Sherlock,

Yeah I know what you mean about choosing a car that might not be so coveted by other classic car fans. But, I'm pretty set on getting some sort of classic sports carnot just any classic car.

In addition to these LBC's, I've been looking into older Porsche 911's. I've always been a Porsche fan, but they can be ridiculously expensive to maintain, albeit bulletproof.

I don't know. With the way gas prices have started going down here lately, I'm considering just getting a little whiz-bang-firecracker of a four cylinder to fly around in. I've always liked Sprites and Minis, and the A-series engine looks like a lot of fun to play with.

aloha,
Joel

graemlins/cheers.gif

vagt6
03-18-2004, 10:21 AM
If you're looking for a nice Mini, there's a fellow in my LBC club that has several for sale. He's an expert restorer so they're in great shape. BTW, he doesn't know I'm plugging for him. Here's his website: https://www.brittsminis.com

I like the Clubman Estate.

pmenhusen
03-18-2004, 11:12 AM
Good Beamer: Are you referring to the 351 Cleveland or Windsor? I believe that one had larger external dimensions than the other.

Joel Simmons
03-18-2004, 06:27 PM
Hi Mark,

Thanks for the link. Those look like some really nice Minis. I'm definitely tempted.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: there are just too many LBC's to choose from! Each month I find myself wanting another model!

Well, when it comes to buying time I'll just buy the best of what's available at the time.

aloha,
Joel

graemlins/cheers.gif

JM1NA
03-27-2004, 11:35 AM
This was in our local by and sell paper this week...

"65 SUNBEAM Tiger MK1, 260, V8, balmoral grey, stored for 14 yrs, nds restor $13,000 firm. Surrey Tel: 604-538-2430"

Bob Claffie
03-27-2004, 11:12 PM
If that Tiger referenced by JM1NA was priced in Canadian dollars it could be a pretty good deal. Bob

JM1NA
03-28-2004, 12:13 AM
Yup, Canadian dollars,
Car is in Surrey, BC...

thegoodbeamer
03-28-2004, 04:49 AM
JM1NA
Gee and I sold mine rather cheap it would seem.It was a nice older restoration with a 5 speed and its off to Oshawa probably in the next few weeks or so.It cleaned up very nice and even had the 140 MPH spedometer.
The Tiger that was at Barret Jackson auction went for $43,000 US.I didn't get to see it when the auction was on.
graemlins/canpatriot.gif coolgleam.gif but then every day is sunny

thegoodbeamer
03-28-2004, 08:04 AM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by pmenhusen:
Good Beamer: Are you referring to the 351 Cleveland or Windsor? I believe that one had larger external dimensions than the other.<hr></blockquote>

I was refering to the 351 Windsor.That is the one I'm running in the Lister.
graemlins/canpatriot.gif coolgleam.gif and its sunny

Jim Weatherford
03-28-2004, 10:34 PM
Aloha Joel;

Hey when you have a Miata when all is said and done, it's still a Miata.

I might suggest you might at least consider a Jensen Healey. The Jensen Healey is the most under valued British sports cars currently. Frankly I love mine. There were only approx 10, 485 of the ever made and only about 1,500 known to be on the road today, that enters the rare classification. A serviceable JH will start at about $4K and go up to $14K for a really fine example.

They are powered with a Lotus 907 (4 cylinder) engine and it is a lot stronget than you might think. I know there are Miatas that have already learned that around my area. You just have to love the surprised look on their faces.

There are several very nice engine swaps that are very cool, the Toyota Supera is a nice swap and the Capri 6 cyl. is another one. Well just another idea and a tip for a really good value and the biggest bang for your buck in vintage British sports cars.

Mahalo, Kimo (Jim)

JM1NA
03-29-2004, 08:34 AM
"Hey when you have a Miata when all is said and done, it's still a Miata."

Thank goodness for that! images/icons/wink.gif

Jim Weatherford
03-29-2004, 06:04 PM
JM1NA;

I don't mean to disparage the "Little" Miata, but I live and work in the immediate area where the Miata was and is being designed and redesigned. It's still too small for the average American.

I've visited the Design Studio several time to emplore them to look into doing a better design. Hey if the Brits could do it in 19955 why can't they do it today. I mentioned the Jensen Healey, Big Healey and even the BMW Z3 and 4. The only car thay heard of was the Z3 and Z4. That said it all to me.

JM1NA
03-29-2004, 10:41 PM
Hi Jim,
No offence taken at all, I don't mind a little friendly ribbing, and I love British cars, obviously, as I visit this site daily...
I've heard of a few guys having trouble fitting in miatas, especially the second generation cars with the thicker doors.
At 5'6", I don't have a problem... images/icons/grin.gif

Jim Weatherford
03-29-2004, 11:25 PM
JM1NA

Yes, you are apparently are their target market, there are (were) times I wished I was smaller but... I'm 6'2" and 250 pounds (an ex-power lifter with legs like tree stumps) and they could care less.

The Honda fits in the same "too small" index I use. Yet I'm very comfortable in my JH or even my former 427 Cobra (replica) I had to drop the seating box and lower the seat, because I'm very long wasted and I sit hign in most ever sports car made. I just put a photo in the gallery.

Well back to The Price of Tigers. Amen

strombecker
04-24-2004, 04:32 PM
I bought my sunbeam Tiger for $6500 US three years ago, and it was the real deal. It has been confirmed by Norm Miller and was all original but the car had been painted a differrent color. There are deals out there if you look. I was lucky, and was the first to check out the car.

Terry
strombecker@telus.net

Dave Russell
04-24-2004, 08:26 PM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jim Weatherford:
JM1NA;
I don't mean to disparage the "Little" Miata, but -- It's still too small for the average American.
<hr></blockquote>

I think the Miata was designed to be a lady's car.

images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/smile.gif
D

Basil
04-24-2004, 10:35 PM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dave Russell:


I think the Miata was designed to be a lady's car.

images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/smile.gif
D<hr></blockquote>

Our Miata is my wifes car and its just right for her, but I enjoy driving it on those occassions that she lets me images/icons/tongue.gif Its fun around town, but a bit cramped on long trips (My little Spitfire has more leg room)
https://www.britishcarforum.com/temp/miata01.jpg

Basil

[ 04-24-2004: Message edited by: Basil ]</p>

JM1NA
04-25-2004, 06:19 PM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dave Russell:


I think the Miata was designed to be a lady's car.

images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/smile.gif
D<hr></blockquote>


My lady loves my miata, and loves driving it. I get a kick out of her actually asking me to drive it. It's cool to have someone enthusiastic about your car other than yourself.
and I'd be happy to put my ladies car up against most anything british in the twisties.
My old spitfire was called a hairdresser's carwhen it came out... whatever...
Weren't the big healeys titled "hairy chested" man's cars? That gives me the willies... images/icons/shocked.gif

Dave Russell
04-26-2004, 12:47 AM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JM1NA:

Weren't the big healeys titled "hairy chested" man's cars? That gives me the willies... images/icons/shocked.gif <hr></blockquote>
I think it meant primitive as in no amenities. Why would that make you uneasy?
D