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Tinster
02-28-2008, 09:09 PM
How difficult a project is removing and cleaning out the crud
from the horizontal pipe, inside the valve cover, that the
valve rocker arms attach to? My very first valve gets no oil.
No valve rocker arms got any oil until I poked the crud out
of the tiny oil weep holes in the arms.

1. Is this cleaning something a non-mechanic can accomplish?

2. What is the Rule of Nine? for valve adjustments?

Thanks as always,

tinster

DNK
02-28-2008, 09:19 PM
2. What is the Rule of Nine? for valve adjustments?Thanks as always,tinster

Always drink 9 beers before any work on an LBC

mrv8q
02-28-2008, 09:51 PM
Always drink 9 beers before any work on an LBC

:thirsty: :thirsty: :thirsty: :thirsty: :thirsty: :thirsty: :thirsty: :thirsty: :thirsty:

Brosky
02-28-2008, 10:01 PM
Dale,

What horizontal pipe are you talking about? This was my head as we were adjusting the valves after installing.

Do you mean the horizontal rocker shaft itself? If so, you can lift that and take it apart and as long as you replace everything exactly as it came off, you should not have to adjust the valves.

And if you ever need to adjust them at some point, I will send you the simple procedure from the TR6 manual in a pdf if you need it. My thoughts are that you do not need to, nor should you in the foreseeable future.

TR674
02-28-2008, 10:57 PM
Tinster
did my valve stem disintegration scare you?????
The rocker assembly is very easy to get off and clean. I don't have my Triumph Maintenance manual here in the office but I can scan the relevant pages for you if you like?
The mechanic called me this morning and my head is all fixed and clean. He is having trouble getting hold of the 5/16" stainless steel caps. His usual supplier has run out. Drat. I'll still be able to re-assemble the head over this long weekend and put the caps on later (no driving).
Regards
Craig

tdskip
02-29-2008, 12:37 AM
Good question Dale - thanks for getting this thread kicked off.

TR3driver
02-29-2008, 02:04 AM
1. Is this cleaning something a non-mechanic can accomplish?I don't think you'll have any trouble at all, Dale. And I would definitely recommend it if you have a rocker that isn't getting oil. Basically remove the shaft from the engine (complete with rockers), then drive or pull out the pins that hold it together (not sure offhand if your TR250 motor will have cotter pins or solid pins) and the locking screw in one of the pedestals. At that point you should be able to clean out the inside of the shaft; but I would also remove all the rockers (which means removing the pedestals as well) so they can be cleaned and inspected as well.

Keep everything in order and put it back the way it came apart; pretty easy. I'd call it two wrenches. A drop of blue Loctite on the locking screw is a good idea, IMO.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]2. What is the Rule of Nine? for valve adjustments?[/QUOTE] Well, first of all, for a 6-cylinder Triumph, it's the "Rule of 13". "Rule of 9" is for a 4 cylinder.
Basically it states that, if you number the valves in order from 1 at the front to 12 at the rear, then the number of the valve that is fully open and the number of the valve you can set now always add up to 13. IOW, if valve #1 is fully open, you can set valve #12. If valve #6 is fully open, you can set valve #7. And so on.

Personally, I prefer a different rule; which lacks a catchy name but I find easier (and it works on any 4-cycle engine with an even number of cylinders). Just turn the engine until both valves for a cylinder are moving at the same time, then set both valves on the cylinder that is opposite in the firing order. You can even use the distributor cap to give you the opposite cylinder, just follow the wire for the cylinder with both valves moving back to the dizzy cap, then skip directly across the cap and follow that wire to the cylinder you should be working on.

70herald
02-29-2008, 02:22 AM
Dale, for a person as organized and methodical as you are, this is an easy, one evening job. However if you are going to go to the trouble of taking the rocker assembly apart, order a new rocker shaft and just replace the old shaft. Since the oil holes are all rather small, there really isn't any good way to "scrub" it out unless you have access to a large ultrasonic cleaner. You could try forcing some sort of solvent in, but I would suspect that there is enough wear on the shaft in any case that it just isn't worth the trouble of trying to clean it.

After you take the rocker assembly out of the engine, there is a cotter pin at one end, and a screw that have to be taken out. then basically you just wiggle all the bits off and wiggle them onto the new shaft in the same order.

Before you order anything, take a look at the current parts to see if any of the springs are broken etc. Also, the part of the rocker which pushes the valve down may be worn. If so, it is very difficult to set the valves accurately. On my engine they were really gone. Happily I had a second complete rocker arm set up so I was able to scavenge enough semi decent ones and with a bit of polishing was able to smooth the pads out nicely.

the rule of nine is just a simple trick to help remind you which rocker arm clearance you are supposed to be adjusting.

Tinster
02-29-2008, 05:32 AM
Thanks all,

Yisrael, I have had much bad luck purchasing new
aftermarket parts made in India or China. Does anyone
have a source for this rocker shaft other than the usual
Big Three?

I have had decent luck refurbishing old British pieces.
Most of my new India/China pieces have been junk that broke soon after purchase.

So, where can I source this rocker shaft?

thanks,

dale

angelfj1
02-29-2008, 06:30 AM
Dale: The rocker shaft was used in many 6 cyl. TR engines. You have a good chance of finding a NOS shaft. Check Ebay and do a Google search for NOS TR parts.

Good luck, Frank

angelfj1
02-29-2008, 06:56 AM
Dale: Check Out eBay Item number: 150219054502, Item number: 280192246755

Also, here is a good web site and he does discuss rocker shaft wear.

https://www.tr6web.com/Documents/tr6/tr6procedures.html

billspit
02-29-2008, 08:30 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]2. What is the Rule of Nine? for valve adjustments?[/QUOTE] Well, first of all, for a 6-cylinder Triumph, it's the "Rule of 13". "Rule of 9" is for a 4 cylinder.
Basically it states that, if you number the valves in order from 1 at the front to 12 at the rear, then the number of the valve that is fully open and the number of the valve you can set now always add up to 13. IOW, if valve #1 is fully open, you can set valve #12. If valve #6 is fully open, you can set valve #13. And so on. [/quote]

You need to work on your math. Valve #13?

Tinster
02-29-2008, 09:38 AM
Thanks Franka nd all-

I'll bid on the Ebay shaft and if I win it, I will
attempt to refurbish it. A good learning experiece
for me. If I am able to accomplish this task, I'll
refurbish the shaft in my car.

Am I correct that I should have my timing groove and the timing arrow in straight alighnment when I pull out the
rocker arm shaft? That will leave my engine at the proper
orientation to begin resetting the valves? I think?

Should I powder coat the rocker arms to make them last longer??

thanks again,

dale

swift6
02-29-2008, 09:58 AM
Am I correct that I should have my timing groove and the timing arrow in straight alighnment when I pull out the
rocker arm shaft? That will leave my engine at the proper
orientation to begin resetting the valves? I think?

Should I powder coat the rocker arms to make them last longer??

thanks again,

dale


Its not totally necessary to have the timing marks match up but it might be easier to start the adjustment process. That could be up to you.

Don't powder coat the rockers. The bushing area and the tip are the only places they wear out. Powder coat won't increase the longevity of these pieces. Generally, you don't want or need to powder coat anything inside the engine that normally sees oil.

TR3driver
02-29-2008, 10:31 AM
So, where can I source this rocker shaft?
IMO the only way to go is to send yours (or a spare from eBay) off to
Rocker Arm Specialist
19841 Hirsch Court
Anderson, CA 96007
Tel (530) 378-1075
fax (530) 378-1177
mailto:rocker@c-zone.net
https://www.shastacounty.com/rockerarm/

Their prices are very reasonable (they charged me about the same price as I would have paid just for the parts needed) and their work is outstanding. The rockers literally looked new when I got it back; and the shaft, bushings, adjusters, locknuts, springs, etc. <span style="font-weight: bold">were </span>new.

Rickc
02-29-2008, 10:57 AM
Dale
IMHO if you remove the rocker "gear" then you MUST re-adjust the valves .010". The procedure is so simple, it is not worth taking a chance on not setting them. I have a procedure that says it all.

https://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj97/ickard/ValveAdjust.jpg

Have fun
Rickc

TR3driver
02-29-2008, 11:00 AM
You need to work on your math. Valve #13?
Thanks, Bill.

Rickc
02-29-2008, 11:14 AM
Dale
wish to add the following comments.
First there is absolutely no need to set at a timing position when removing the rocker assembly. The only consideration is it might take a few more turns to get to my starting point. Funny, never thought about seting it at a certain timing point.
Fully agree, no powder coating.
Thinking about math makes me dizzy adding one number to another might get you to the point of saying "OK which one is valve 13?"....sorry just had to add that one in:)
Using my procedure takes little grey matter effort and you are not jumping all over the place( turning the fan many many times).
Rickc

70herald
03-01-2008, 12:24 PM
Am I correct that I should have my timing groove and the timing arrow in straight alighnment when I pull out the
rocker arm shaft? That will leave my engine at the proper
orientation to begin resetting the valves? I think?

Should I powder coat the rocker arms to make them last longer??

thanks again,

dale

Aligning the timing grove etc is something you would do if you were removing a timing chain / belt etc anything where the relationship between the cam and the pistons could change. taking off the rocker will not affect that at all.

Do not under any circumstance powder coat parts which are going INTO the engine. little bits which chip off wear off etc will not be good for the precision moving parts.

70herald
03-01-2008, 12:28 PM
Dale: , Item number: 280192246755



The rockers have been bushed with #660 bronze alloy and re-faced.


In order to bush the rockers, they have to be reamed out a fairly significant amount and there really isn't allot of excess metal there to start with. Sound to me like this is going to significantly weaken the rocker arms.