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Tinster
04-29-2007, 10:04 AM
If the Crusher were open today, I'd tow this foul
beast over myself. I thought I'd be driving down to the
beach by now.

Worked my butt off changing out PDO Pedro's busted
trailing arm. Everything back together- all it needs
is bleed the brake I had disconnected.

Wendy pushes down on the brake pedal, fluid sprays all
over the place from the brand new brake wheel cylinder
David installed last month. Also I notice I cannot fit
the outside cast iron piece the brake shoes push against.
The brake shoes appear to be expanded outward.

It took me almost 2 hours to get that top spring installed.
Maybe I messed up the cylinder doing the spring?

What have I messed up and how do I fix it? I know zero
about brake installations.

thanks, /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/nopity.gif

https://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/TinsterTR6/brakefailure.jpg

04-29-2007, 10:10 AM
No chance your emergency brake isn't set?

Sometimes a small ball peen hammer comes in handy.

Obviously that is Wendy's fault.

NickMorgan
04-29-2007, 10:18 AM
Silly question, but you did have the drum on when you bled the brakes?

04-29-2007, 10:26 AM
Oi Vey. That would hurt.

martx-5
04-29-2007, 10:29 AM
My guess is NO!!

The piston just cocked when it popped out. Remove the shoes so you can remove the piston the rest of the way. Then re-install it and put the shoes back on. BTW, it's easiest to put the springs on the shoes first. Then you kinda pull them apart a little while you finagle it around the hub and then insert the ends of the shoes where they have to go.(in the adjuster mechanism and the wheel cylinder) Get one shoe in place, then pull the other one into the slots.

Then, PUT THE DRUM ON. Adjust the shoes and bleed.

EDIT: BTW, AREN'T those return springs supposed to be BEHIND the shoes??? IIRC, they are on my TR3.

Tinster
04-29-2007, 11:11 AM
No the E brake is NOT set.

NO, I did NOT have the drum on.
Didn't know I needed to.

Yes, David had the spring behind. I gave up almost
immediately trying to install it behind.

I have Bentley blue book and their brake section
leaves alot to be desired. They say to remove this
and that part but give no hint where it is or what
it is.

Can someone start me at square one? Like how do I
remove the shoes? If that is the first step.


BTW: Is this entire mess because I had to remove that
stupid spring to get at the trailing arm stud under it?
thanks,

D

RomanH
04-29-2007, 11:21 AM
Dale,
The brakes have to be reassembled as if the car was ready to be driven before you bleed them. When you press the brake pedal the drums need to be in place to resist the outward motion of the shoes or else you end up with what you did.
I don't think it's a loss, it looks like you can put the wheel cylinder back together if the rubber boot is not torn, just do what Art wrote.
Did you remove the other side? If not pull off the wheel and the drum to see how it is assembled and use it to guide you along the way.
Don't give up now it's almost ready.

DrEntropy
04-29-2007, 11:40 AM
You need to get off that island and back to Florida, Dale! I could DRIVE to Jupiter, fix the brakes (a ~TWO~ beer job, MAX) test drive the thing to lunch and be back home before dark!

Rats!... rats, ratsRatsratsrats....

Tinster
04-29-2007, 11:51 AM
Thanks all-

Yup it IS a total loss this time.

The rubber boot is torn, Wendy is furious at me for
all the time I have spent working on the car this week,
all for nothing. The Crypt Car is STILL on blocks and non
functional. A steady state condition it would seem.

The Boss ordered me to put away all automotive tools, cover
the car back up, clean the garage and not to even attempt
anything else until after we return from a week's cruise on
the 15th of may.

I will order a new brake wheel cylinder from Moss. Brakes
are totally over my skill level. If I have the a new wheel
cylinder for a TR6, is this something Wester Auto could
handle if I have the car towed over there?

I am beginning to think this will be a three weeks a year
functional car. The remainder of the year on jack stands.
Depressing to say the least. Leaving next Sunday for the
cruise on a real down note.

DPO Pedro! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/pukeface.gif

https://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/TinsterTR6/pedro1.jpg

70herald
04-29-2007, 12:17 PM
Dale
from the picture, that rubber boot doesn't look torn, I think it just popped out of place. No big deal, when you get the brake shoes off, it will be easy to put back together. I highly doubt that you did any damage to the cylinder.

To take the brake shoes off you need to remove the clip on the pad. I circled it in red on the picture. Push the square shaped spring in and then twist the little rod 90 degrees. when you release the spring it (the spring) and the brake shoe will come right off.

try putting the big tensioning springs in with 1 brake shoe attached and the other brake shoe loose. It is a bear of a job if only because the springs keep trying to pop off and they are quite strong! A small flat pry bar is very helpful!
Also before you try putting it back together, back off the adjuster ( the bottom thing opposite the hydraulic cylinder) on the back of the brake plate it has a small 1/4"? square bolt screw it out as much as possible to reduce the amount you need to stretch the springs.

Any brake shop will be able to handle these brakes, but I have confidence in you to solve this your self, you have solved MUCH bigger problems than this.
Yisrael

TRDejaVu
04-29-2007, 12:28 PM
You have, amongst other things, just rebuilt a rear suspension and the skill level for that is way above what is needed for these sort of brakes. Heck, there are LBC owners who won't even attempt an oil change, so my hat (if I wore one) is off to you for what you have done with that car.

You had a minor brain cramp in not putting the drum on before bleeding; over the years we have all done similar basic mistakes, even those of us who used to turn wrenches for a living. Now pull yourself together man and get the car back on the road so you can continue terrorizing anyone who gets in your way on the island:)

Disclaimer: Tough love approach provided in a manly-man sort of way and does not imply anything more; "not that there is anything wrong with that" (Seinfeld quote I believe).

NickMorgan
04-29-2007, 01:14 PM
Dale,
Maybe someone else can confirm this, but I think the springs should be behind the brake shoes. At least they are on all my Triumphs, but I don't have a TR6! I usually assemble the two shoes with the springs behind the hub, but not in place on the cylinder and adjuster. I then put one shoe in the slot on the adjuster and cylinder and lever the other shoe in place. The problem when doing this is that you have to keep the springs in slight tension, and the whole assembly often comes apart. Once it is all in place put the pins and clips in to hold the shoes in place, replace the drum, adjust the brakes up (make sure that you don't adjust the hand brake before the shoes) and then bleed. Easy!
Good luck to you Dale. I imagine you can re-use that cylinder as long as the rubber seal is OK.
Nick

14dna
04-29-2007, 01:52 PM
Dale
Everyone has given you good advice, and I, of all people, know you can do it. Get a hold of your alter ego, Dave JR., and put that car back together. Don't make me come down there!
Dave
P.S. If you send me pictures on my e-mail, I'll fill in the blanks and send 'em back.

swift6
04-29-2007, 02:55 PM
Dale,

I can see that tear in the rubber boot, time for a new one. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wall.gif

Sometimes when your frustrated it is best to just walk away for a while. Throw the cover over Cryptie, order the new wheel cylinder and go enjoy the cruise with Wendy away from Cryptie. Then you'll be all set to tackle those brakes when you get back.

Make sure Wendy knows that this was operator error and not Cryptie this time. Take some of the flack away from the poor car, this one was not of its doing. It won't be the last time you goof up doing something either. We all learn best through our mistakes anyway right. I've learned plenty from mistakes. The key is not to make the same mistake more than twice (maybe three times) before it really sets in. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

TR4nut
04-29-2007, 03:39 PM
Dale-

Take a breather - I agree with a bunch of the previous comments, especially Ian's note that rebuilding a rear end is tough and you've already accomplished it. I also agree with Nick though- get someone to verify the spring placement on the brake shoes, as I think that they may be incorrectly installed as you show on your picture.

Randy

ALLAN
04-29-2007, 04:34 PM
[quote=NickMorgan]Dale,
Maybe somenoe else can confirm this, but I think the springs should be behind the brake shoes.
----------------------------------Yes, they go on the Inside, I originally posted saying they go to the front, but I got my backs and fronts mixed up, I guess its better to say inside or outside

TR6oldtimer
04-29-2007, 05:26 PM
Dale,
Maybe somenoe else can confirm this, but I think the springs should be behind the brake shoes.
-----------------------------------------They go in the front

Sorry, but they definitely go on the inside...

Aldwyn
04-29-2007, 06:10 PM
Yes, they go in the back/inside for sure. I just redid my breaks last week!

Dale, you can do this... brakes are NOT beyond you!

As mentioned before, put the springs on the shoes THEN spread them apart and work them into place. It's SOOOO easy to do it this way. Then put the pins back in, and put the drum on. No brake spring tool required!

You talked about not being able to put the metal piece back on that the brakes press against? Do you mean the drum? If so, you just need to adjust it... get your head behind the wheel and look for a little square-head bolt on the back/bottom... (it's best if you have the brake wrench for this, but it wont kill you if you dont have it) this opens and closes the bottom piston ever so slightly to either spread the shoes or bring them closer together... keep turning this until you can get the drum on. Once it's on, tighten the sucker back up again until the wheel no longer moves... then loosen it a little bit until the wheel moves agin.

As mentioned, make sure everything is put back together (save the tires) before bleeding the brakes... then bleed away!

Good luck!

TRopic6
04-29-2007, 08:28 PM
Hey Dale,
Your photo brought back memories of the times I've done the same thing over the years. First out of youthful ignorance, then after telling my co-bleeder (wife) to "just push the pedal a little while I watch the piston" and then again thinking "I'll just push the pedal a little while I lean out and watch the piston." Good times...

It's no big deal. The springs go on the inside and are tedious but follow 70Herald and Aldwyn's tips. I'll bet you a bag of Red Lion 100% Kona that the boot isn't torn. It's stretched, which makes the cutout at the back for the cylinder body look like a tear. You'll need to take the shoes off like Yisrael said to put the piston back in. While the piston is out, you can clean the bottom of the bore with Q-Tip...gunk seems to build up there.

You might be interested to know as a result of your TA incident I checked mine this weekend. No loose studs, but the passenger hub had some play to it. Thanks to you, I can replace it before it really gets bad. Keep the faith, bruddah.

Jeff
CF13816U

PeterK
04-29-2007, 08:43 PM
Dale,

The way I look at my cars is that everything I screw up now, someone will curse me like you do Pedro. So I become the DPO, just like you will for your TR6. It's just how we learn; we make stupid mistakes and then fix them, hopefully a little wiser. Everything I make better, I think of how the next guy will say "wow, this guy really did a great job."

So get back on the horse and give Pedro a break. It's not Pedro's fault; he was just the dpo.

And now you're (hopefully) a little bit wiser too.

No big deal. Now you know a little more about brakes.

Brosky
04-29-2007, 08:44 PM
Go Dale Go! Go Dale Go!! Go Dale Go!! Go Dale Go!!

Kick Crypty's butt again and again. You can do this, just stay positive. You made a boo-boo that most of us have done over the years.

I agree with Jeff. My first time was youthful ignorance. But the second time I did it was just plain dumb!!

If you can rebuild that rear suspension all on your own, this is nothing for you to finish.

Tinster
04-30-2007, 05:28 AM
I think I've come up with a doable plan for this
recent Crypt Car nightmare set back.

I believe I can remove the existing brake assembly,
shoes, wheel cylinder, etc with a pry bar and small
cutoff saw. That will permit me to reinstall the
brake drum and wheel.

If I pinch the messed up brake's fluid pipe shut, will
the other three functional brakes be enough to get me
safely the 2 miles to Western Auto?

I intend to order every Moss part shown here except the
brake drum. I think this should solve my latest problem.
Can the boys at Western Auto install these parts?

https://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=32833

Or should I pull the rear wheel hub and send it to David,
in Canada, along with the Moss parts, for the brake system
installation?

Thanks for the advice. I guess I got a little over my head
mechanically with my latest attempt to get the Crypt Car
functional.

Dale

70herald
04-30-2007, 06:05 AM
Dale
you have already done all the hard work on this repair, and you most certainly have the capability to finish this up by yourself. You have done much more difficult repairs.

As I noted before, there is nothing wrong with the cylinder, and EVEN if the rubber cover is slightly ripped believe me it is in better condition than most cars on the road. Those covers dry out after a while and crack anyway. It just wont hurt anything.

What happened to the brake pipe???? popping the piston out shouldn't have done anything to the pipe or the piston.

In any case, if you just want to let someone else deal with it (and I certainly can understand that feeling!) I would find a shop which deals in hydraulic hoses and get a cap for the hose. Do NOT try to bend it over in order to seal off the hose. If you do this, drive slowly and don't apply the brakes suddenly. These are very simple brakes, and the boys at Western Auto will have no problem with it. Drive slowly with the understanding that you need extra length to stop.

If you can't figure out how to get the brake shoes off, remove the brake hose, and then slide off the two little plates which hold the cylinder in place. It will probably pop right out. Then the shoes will snap together and you can slide the drum back on.
Yisrael

Lionheart
04-30-2007, 06:08 AM
Mr Tinster,
You are making too much of this.

It will be easier (and safer) for you to put this brake back together properly than to rig it up for a trip to the mechanic. You don't really need to do much, and you shouldn't need any parts.

1. Take the shoes off (ensure you catch the piston from the slave cylinder as it tries to fall on the floor).

2. Use brake parts cleaner. Clean up the piston, boot, and anything that got soaked with brake fluid. Leave the cylinder installed, but check inside it for gunk or rust.

3. Install the boot on the piston.

4. Gently insert the piston into the cylinder...open the bleeder to allow air to escape from cylinder while pushing piston in.

5. Put the skirt of the rubber boot into the recess on the outside of the cylinder. Push the U-clip on over the boot to secure it.

6. Push the cylinder all the way in and close the bleeder.

7. Install springs on shoes and fenagle shoes into place...first one whole shoe, then the bottom of the other, then the top. (It will take a couple of tries.)

8. Reinstall shoe retainer clips (middle of shoes).

9. Install brake drum (& 2 retaing screws, if applicable).

10. Bleed brakes (both sides now that you lost all your fluid).

11. Reinstall roadwheels. Torque as required.

All Done! Go for a drive.

Len

Tinster
04-30-2007, 07:54 AM
Yisrael/Len-

I didn't quite grasp what or where the clips were. So
before the Boss awoke this morning I got a bigger crowbar
and a bigger hammer to try to remove all the brake parts so
I could put the wheel back on.

The bigger crowbar did the trick and two small black squares
launched into space to join Ship's Engineer Scotty. The pads
fell down and I was able to get them apart.

Len, I followed your list of how-tos and the new wheel
cylinder was not harmed at all nor was the rubber booty
torn. The back side of it has a cutout by design. The wheel
cylinder slides back and forth, is this correct?

Now that I have the bloody thing in pieces, I kinda see how
it operates. I believe I might be able to re-install the
pads myself. Do both springs go behind? On the other side
of my car the top one is behind and the bottom one is in
front.

Progres photo:

Thanks all for the advice! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thankyousign.gif

https://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/TinsterTR6/bareplate.jpg

Lionheart
04-30-2007, 08:38 AM
The wheel
cylinder slides back and forth, is this correct?

Yes, it floats so that the shoes press equally against the inside of the drum.

I don't know which side your springs go on...it was mentioned earlier in this thread. (Of course it was mentioned both ways.)

On my Spit, I can install them inside or outside with the same result.

Len

70herald
04-30-2007, 09:03 AM
Yisrael/Len-

I didn't quite grasp what or where the clips were. So
before the Boss awoke this morning I got a bigger crowbar
and a bigger hammer to try to remove all the brake parts so
I could put the wheel back on.

The bigger crowbar did the trick and two small black squares
launched into space to join Ship's Engineer Scotty. The pads
fell down and I was able to get them apart.


There is a Hebrew expression: Whatever doesn't move with force, will go with more force. Obviously, you figured it out!



Len, I followed your list of how-tos and the new wheel
cylinder was not harmed at all nor was the rubber booty
torn. The back side of it has a cutout by design. The wheel
cylinder slides back and forth, is this correct?


Yep!



Now that I have the bloody thing in pieces, I kinda see how
it operates. I believe I might be able to re-install the
pads myself. Do both springs go behind? On the other side
of my car the top one is behind and the bottom one is in
front.


Not sure if both springs go behind, but I would copy what Dave did! You certainly can put it back together.

swift6
04-30-2007, 09:39 AM
Dale, are you using the drivers side rear as a guide yet. From what I remember, the springs should go on the back side.

roofman
04-30-2007, 12:44 PM
You really are going to have a 100% restored TR6 soon. You know whats funny though, at some point you will get done and then you will stand there looking at the car and you are going to feel both proud, then bored because there is nothing left to do to it.

Tinster
04-30-2007, 01:08 PM
Well roofman, I do indeed appreciate the thought
but it ain't gonna be happening any time real soon.

I take it there exists some special brake pad installation
tool of which I am not yet aware? I just wasted an hour of
my time trying to get that little square, black, brake
holding clip over that tiny stud thingy.

No luck using any of the tools I have. Of course Wendy
caught me working on the Beast, when I promised her I would
let it be dead for the next two weeks. So I'm in Dutch over
that.

I am torn between pulling the rear hub out and taking it and
the brake pads over to Western Auto for installation, or
driving the car over with one brake missing.

This is such a hateful, beast of an automobile.

What is the special tool called and where do I buy one?

d

Andrew Mace
04-30-2007, 01:14 PM
Do you mean the spring clip, #70 in the Moss Motors diagram you referenced? If you can't squeeze it with your fingers enough to slip it onto the hold-down pin, you probably could squeeze it with needle-nose pliers. At any rate, your free hand should be reaching around behind the backing plate to hold the pin in place whilst installing the spring clip.

TR6oldtimer
04-30-2007, 01:20 PM
Starts at $115,000.

NickMorgan
04-30-2007, 02:14 PM
Dale,
I wish I could be there to help you. As Andrew says you push the pin in place from the back of the back plate and hold it there with one hand. Then the wee square clip should slide onto the pin, then push it in sligtly and turn it through 90 degrees so that it catches on the wider bit of the pin. Hope that makes sense. Hopefully your clips are re-useable after your large crowbar treatment.
I have found a picture in a manual of the springs both on the in-bord side of the shoes.
Good luck to you. In years to come you will laugh about this!!
Nick
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/nickmorgan/scan0002.jpg

Tinster
04-30-2007, 04:13 PM
Super graphic Nick- Thanks.

Now I see how everything fits together..

....................................some
time later..............

bummer indeed. I again tried to compress the clip
while holding the the pin in the back. No luck at all.
Needle nosed pliers, vicegrips, screwdriver, nothing
worked. Finally, I was trying to compress the clip and
push it over the pin with a wood chisel when suddenly
it let loose and sprang out of my garage and into the
garden where I cannot find it. It is lost it would seem.

Do you think I can simply thru bolt it with a 1/8" bolt
and lock nut? I have not a clue how to stretch those bloody
springs BEHIND everything. I almost got a hernia stretching
one yesterday on the OUTSIDE!

In hindsight, I should have pulled the entire hub and
taken the brake pieces to Wester Auto. Now I have to make
another order to Moss.

Thanks for the help. I truly lack all skills in the auto mechanics field. I really loathe DPO Pedro.

d /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

davidk
04-30-2007, 04:29 PM
Hi Dale. Sorry you're having so much trouble with those clips. You should be able to push them down by hand, turn them 90 degrees, and slip them off. Hang in there!

Tinster
04-30-2007, 04:43 PM
Well, David, one of them is now lost in the weeds
somewhere. Would the thru-bolt concept function?

I really, really don't want to pull that hub assembly
and axle out for a third time.

d

kc_doyle
04-30-2007, 06:02 PM
Dale, I have no doubt that you can do the break thing. I've done many of them, and just ask CheapSnake, I'm not much of a wrench. What I've used with some success on the clips that go over the little pin thingie, is..... I use a square nosed pliers...put the pin in from the back....put the nose of the pliers on the clip.... holding the pin in the back with your fingers.. push the clip down over it and give it a quarter turn. I don't know if this helps, but [censored] man, you have done things far tougher than this. If you want to talk about tough, try putting break shoes on a golf car. No room for tools or fingers.

tomshobby
04-30-2007, 06:25 PM
If you want tough, just wait until you have to put new wobble plates on your Z-shaft! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

AweMan
04-30-2007, 06:39 PM
Dale, I have no doubt that you can do the break thing. I've done many of them, and just ask CheapSnake, I'm not much of a wrench. What I've used with some success on the clips that go over the little pin thingie, is..... I use a square nosed pliers...put the pin in from the back....put the nose of the pliers on the clip.... holding the pin in the back with your fingers.. push the clip down over it and give it a quarter turn. I don't know if this helps, but [censored] man, you have done things far tougher than this. If you want to talk about tough, try putting break shoes on a golf car. No room for tools or fingers.
It, {The car} has already done the break thing, on the brakes /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif
Those clips can be a bugger, sometimes three hands are better than two. Get someone to hold the retaining pin from the back while you Manipulate the clip.
the "Bolt through" isnt a good idea.
Kerry

kc_doyle
04-30-2007, 06:52 PM
trouble is, there is only enough room for one set of hands. Break...............Oooops, my bad.

Andrew Mace
04-30-2007, 09:08 PM
Well, David, one of them is now lost in the weeds
somewhere. Would the thru-bolt concept function?It might function, but I don't think it's a good idea. Arguably better to not put anything there, although I really wouldn't do that except in an emergency. The bolt would make you an official "DPO" (dreaded previous or, in this case, present, owner).

Come to think of it, "...er, DPO" is an anagram of your buddy "Pedro"! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

tr6_easyrider
04-30-2007, 09:15 PM
Dale, Review Lionheart's step by step discription. In your last post it sounds like your not mounting the brake shoes with the spings attached. That is the only way you will get the springs on the shoes if it is mounted as one assembly.
The pins with the clips will be the last thing on the list.
You should beable to purchase those clips at Western Auto or any parts store.
Joe

Brosky
04-30-2007, 09:22 PM
Dale,

I agree with Joe. take a deep breath and read the instructions given earlier. You CAN do this. Take a break and head to your local parts store with one of the old clips to match it up.

tr6_easyrider
04-30-2007, 09:23 PM
I just read Andrew's post. You could use a nut and bolt, just snug it tight. That should get you too Western Auto and you could have them replace it with the pin and clip.

70herald
05-01-2007, 12:50 AM
Finally, I was trying to compress the clip and
push it over the pin with a wood chisel when suddenly
it let loose and sprang out of my garage and into the
garden where I cannot find it. It is lost it would seem.


It wanted to join the $3 spring I had shipped over from the US and then promptly broke by trying to force it in place, and those little springs which go in the syncros which were last seen flying off into the neighbors garden... of course
it was the NEW spring which I lost and stupidly didn't order extras.



Do you think I can simply thru bolt it with a 1/8" bolt
and lock nut? I have not a clue how to stretch those bloody
springs BEHIND everything. I almost got a hernia stretching
one yesterday on the OUTSIDE!

you have gotten to the nasty bit. First of all make sure the adjuster (the bit on the bottom) is fully backed off so that you don't have to stretch the spring any further than needed. I usually clip one brake pad on and then hook up both springs and then rotate the second brake shoe into place. Once it is in place, I use a clamp to hold the shoe against the back plate while I attach the second clip. This usually takes a few tries but I have always succeeded eventually.

However, I will suggest an easier way, which I might try next time.
Get a "spreader type camp" like this.
https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47398

Now take out the wheel cylinder and assemble both brake shoes, springs etc. Now using the spreader, force the brake shoes apart enough to slide the wheel cylinder in place.

I would put the spreader on the top of the brake shoes, just above where the wheel cylinder goes. Since the clamps are fairly cheap, I would grind notches on the clamp faces to hold the brake shoes securely.

TRopic6
05-01-2007, 03:33 AM
Tinster,

Like Easyrider said, the brake shoes with springs on the inside have to go on first. Put the spring with the straight middle area at the top. It takes some manhandling, but you have to hold the two shoes apart while you slip the top spring between the hub flange and brake cylinder body then pull down and force the lower spring down and behind the flange. Then I'd mount the right shoe (you have to fit the parking brake lever thru the square hole in the shoe), then the left one.

Make sure the right shoe ends get seated in the slots at the cylinder body and the adjuster at the bottom. Then really pull to get the left one on, one end at a time. It won't be pretty and the springs may fall off a time or two. You just have to keep at it but it does go together.

As for the pins, I compress the clip and turn the pin from the back with my fingertip. Compressing and trying to turn the clip with the same tool was too tedious. I'm sure someone can describe the process better. I'd send you a clip but they're in SC with all my stored parts - maybe someone else has a spare and can mail...

Jeff
CF13816U

Tinster
05-01-2007, 04:29 AM
Thanks for the advice Jeff,

I think it best to cover the foul Beast, go on our
cruise this Sunday and have a good week at sea.

When we return, I will thru-bolt the shoes and attempt
to to spread the springs. If I can't get the springs
and shoes installed, I'll probably pull the hub and take
it to Western Auto.

I'll order a new clip from Moss along with a few other
parts.

thanks all, I guess a mechanic I just ain't gonna be.

d

DrEntropy
05-01-2007, 06:28 AM
As for the pins, I compress the clip and turn the pin from the back with my fingertip. Compressing and trying to turn the clip with the same tool was too tedious.

This way is sooo much easier to do than trying to rotate the clip. But if you didn't have the shoe(s) located against the backplate, NO amount of grunt will line it all up. Back the adjuster all the way out, too. Adjust after the drum is on, before you bleed it.

bash
05-01-2007, 06:34 AM
Dale

If you are going to pull the hub anyway, then why not have a go at the brakes with that removed? With the hub out of the way I would imagine the springs and clips would be a lot easier? You could even work on a bench if you wanted, rather than crouching in the wheelwell. Just a thought.

Alistair

Tinster
05-01-2007, 11:14 AM
Not going to pull the hub again.
I simply do not have the mental energy
to tear the rear end of out this car for
the third time.

Cypty can sit on jack stands a few more
weeks/months. After 70 weeks of endless
struggling and $10s of K put into this
non-running car from ****, I am mentally
tired, worn out. Crypty has bested me....
for now anyway. I'll beat the SOB eventually.

Gonna take a Crypty break and get on with more
productive things in my life.

d

bobh
05-01-2007, 12:21 PM
Dale,
You need a break. Take the cruise. If you're like a lot of us you'll have the brakes figured out in your head by the time you return.
My technique for installing the pin and clip is pretty simple. I use a pair of fence pliers I used to make my living with. The nearest thing I find in stores now are linemans pliers. They are heavey duty, square nosed with wire cutters on the sides of the jaws right near the pivot. The handles are about 8 inches long. You can cut a 10 penney nail with those cutters. No tool box should be without a pair.
Push the clip into place. Feed the pin in from the back side of the backing plate. Line up the flat on the pin with the slot in the clip. Hold the pin in position. Align the nose of the pliers with the slot in the clip and the flat on the pin. Have the pliers open a little so the pin will go in between the jaws. Use the linemans pliers to push the clip inward enough that you can grab the flat on the pin. Twist the pin 90 degrees and it's done.
One or two more comments. My first car was a 69 MGB. My first trip in the car was to the tool department at Sears. Everything I know about working on cars came from doing the work myself. When I was younger I had more of whatever it takes to learn this stuff and not get as frustrated. Maybe it was due to the fact that if I didn't fix the car, I didn't have transportation to work.
My neighbors think I'm an idiot for working on my cars. "Pay someone", "Don't mess with it if it ain't broken" "Wal-Mart will change your oil"... Although it's frustrating at times I still enjoy the results.
Your affair with the TR6 got off to a rough start, but you've learned a tremendous amount. Who was it that asked if someone stole your avitar? Something about removing the differential? The bottom line is eat the elephant one bite at a time. Enjoy your successes and ask for help when you need it. Oh yea, if you send the car to the crusher we're all going come there and burn PR to the ground, take away your birthday and give you a girls name (after we plunder the rum distilleries!)

Tomster
05-01-2007, 01:18 PM
Cruisin and Fishin sounds like the best remedy for the time being.
Say Hi! to Jimmy from all of us,should you see him

05-01-2007, 01:31 PM
Dale, You need an intervention. Or a break, or both.

Its the brakes, not the engine or gearbox. It's about an hours work on each side. Tops. That's to disassemble and reassemble the entire thing. What you have left to do it a 20 minute job.

Get new clips. Follow the instructions posted above about putting the springs on before fastening the clips and you should be all done in no time. You need no more force than is provided by an average 12" screwdriver to stretch the springs - if you have to apply more then you aren't lined up somewhere.

Just this time put the drum on.

Remember to slacken the adjuster off as much as possible to put the drum on, and then retighten when it is on. (use the back of a 1/4" socket with an allen wrench in the hex portion to do it).

This is not hard. I only swore once when I did mine (when I realised my adjuster was rusted solid and I'd have to do the whole job over to take it out).

NickMorgan
05-01-2007, 04:26 PM
Hi Dale,
I know the feeling. Take a break (brake) from Crypty and I am sure you will feel more inclined to work on it again in a couple of weeks. At least there is no hurry to get it back on the road. Surely once you have resolved this problem you will have a good few months or years of trouble-free motoring.
Have a good cruise.
Nick

kc_doyle
05-01-2007, 04:54 PM
Dale, think about the rest of us, what are we going to do with no Crypty news.:(

Tinster
05-01-2007, 05:29 PM
Well, yeah. A lot of good folks have a lot of
their time and sound advice invested in this project.

I guess I got ahead of myself after I finally had a
functional engine and a reliable drive trane and had
replaced so many major car components after almost
1 1/2 years of the car on jack stands and 2 weeks on
the road.

I really thought the two weeks the car was operational
was finally the turning point from major problems to
normal old car maintenance. Then the wheel came off.

My expectations exceeded the reality that I have been
rebuilding what was really a parts car that should have
been taken apart and the pieces sold on e-bay.

Another few weeks and I'll go back to identifying major
PDO Pedro issues lurking under the sheet metal skin.

Oh yeah, Pedro's $600 paint job is now flaking off.

Wendy, bless her soul, offered me $1,000. of her own money
to take Crypty to a specialty paint shop and have the car
painted properly. I didn't have the heart to tell her.

So the Crypt saga ends for now but will continue in the not
too distant future. Stay tuned.

Thanks one and all. As someone once said.

" I'll be Baaaaaaaaaaach!

I'm just a little tired right now.

dale and wendy goin' cruisin' to Aruba.

kc_doyle
05-01-2007, 08:41 PM
Dale, Have a great time.. Crypty will wait. Maybe it will even miss you and be ready to welcome you back.

Aldwyn
05-01-2007, 10:02 PM
Have fun while away, Dale! And leave your key under your mat when you leave... I'll come down and take care of those pesky brakes for you while you are away! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

tr6_easyrider
05-02-2007, 01:11 AM
Have fun while away, Dale! And leave your key under your mat when you leave... I'll come down and take care of those pesky brakes for you while you are away! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
You want to deprive Dale of all the Fun!!!!!:-))

Aldwyn
05-02-2007, 01:13 PM
Really, I am just looking for an excuse to visit PR. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Tinster
05-02-2007, 02:12 PM
I never did care much for excuses.

The Grey Ghost and the Red Mako are always
functional and available for friends to use.

Cozy guest bedroom with private bath ain't too shabby
either. Ask David.

What is it Bob Barker always says?

"Come on down!"

No excuses needed and airfare from BWI is cheap.
Bring a few orange and blue surgical tube trolling lures
when ya come. The tackle shops don't sell them here.

d

bobh
05-02-2007, 05:23 PM
You fishing for barracuda? that's what i use the surgical tube lures for. I made my own. Although I can't recall seeing blue tubing.

kc_doyle
05-02-2007, 08:19 PM
Dale, I'm sure that there have been a lot of changes since 1957. I loved it then. But what did I know I was only 19 and the Navy was paying my way. I remember the smells of the flowers etc. I tell my wife that she has no idea of what pineapple really tastes like till she has one ripe and fresh from the field.

Tinster
05-03-2007, 05:34 AM
Bob- wanted to see what tubes might catch here in the tropics.
I introduced a few friends to Rebel "Stubby" lures. Snook and
'Cuda go nuts for them when trolled at slow speeds.

In Maryland we used blue tubes to catch? What else? Bluefish!

KC- still the best pinas in the Caribbean are grown in
Barceloneta, PR. Those yellow fruit things they sell in
states taste nothing like stalk ripened bananas. We have
about 20 types of bananas grown here. I like the ones the
size of my thumb.

d

Simon TR4a
05-03-2007, 01:11 PM
Hi Dale!
I have no further advice to add, or fishing stories to tell, but I just read the entire thread, and it seems to me that the entire Triumph community on this forum is pulling for you, and we have even "adopted" Crypty as our pet project.

With this kind of support, literally from all around the world, you and the ever-tolerant Wendy can overcome any obstacle!

Take a break and come back to it with fresh energy, and you'll get it done!
Simon.