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View Full Version : TR2/3/3A A little TR2 engine and chassis work is in order..



YankeeTR
04-24-2007, 08:01 AM
Well I finally got old TS 1203 LO in the air for some serious work.

After I bought this project I unstuck the engine but found the #4 cylinder has water damage to the sleeve. Plus the front suspension was pretty loose...excuse me...I mean REALLY loose!

Sooooo.... last night I pulled the pan, and removed the #4 piston and rod combo. I had mistakenly thought that the engine had a fresh rebuild based on the cleanliness of the piston top and the combustion chamber.

I now believe that the engine has indeed been rebuilt but it does have some miles on it. There was a considerable amount (1/2") of sludge in the bottom of the oil pan. But it wasn't the kind that is all hard and gooey...just sort of the consistency of really thick lube. I think it was mostly all of the oil contaminents having dropped out of the oil in the last 30 years of storage. I had a '39 Ford that had been sitting for 50 years. The oil was perfectly clear....above about 1" of crud that had accumulated at the bottom of the oil pan.

The rod bearings are Clevitte 77's...a US brand so I know these are not OEM. They are standard size, however, so the crank wasn't machined (I'll know after I check the diameter). The piston and rod look good...the rings are stuck/rusty from the water and resulting rust.

I couldn't get the sleeve to push out of the counterbore. Not enough strength in my worn out right arm so I think I'm going to fabricate a 'sleeve puller' tonite to try to get it out. Or just try to find a 'hardwood' 2X2...those pine boards just won't do it.

I also gave the suspension the once over and found the front wheel bearings are really loose. And the rear, upper control arm bushings are non-existant! None left! All in all, between the loose wheel bearings and loose upper mounts there is about two inches of play in the steering at the road wheel. Now add in the 'normal' two inches of play at the steering wheel that is considered normal and you now have four inches of steering wheel travel BEFORE the wheels start to turn. This car must have been a handful to drive!

I'll take a few pics tonite...

NickMorgan
04-24-2007, 12:50 PM
Congratulations. I look forward to seeing the pictures. It sounds like quite a familiar story. It is always exciting doing an achaeological dig into a car. My TR had bits of hose pipe instead of the top wishbone bushes. Regarding the liners I knocked them out with a metal drift and then fitted larger liners and pistons.
Good luck to you.

YankeeTR
04-24-2007, 01:20 PM
Congratulations. I look forward to seeing the pictures. It sounds like quite a familiar story. It is always exciting doing an achaeological dig into a car. My TR had bits of hose pipe instead of the top wishbone bushes. Regarding the liners I knocked them out with a metal drift and then fitted larger liners and pistons.
Good luck to you.
nick,

I'm trying to repair one cylinder since the others don't even have a ridge.

I have a couple of alternatives. #1 is to have the #4 cylinder overbored and install one oversize piston. $45.00 for the machine work and $65.00 for the piston.

#2 is to have a std. bore repair sleeve put into the stock wet sleeve and re-use the old piston. This would be about $80.00

#3 is to but ONE new cylinder kit from Revington...they are the only folks who will sell me an individual liner kit. But @ 100 pounds sterling ($200.00) plus postage/shipping it isn't cheap.

But, the again, nothing on this 'fix' will be cheap!

Andrew Mace
04-24-2007, 03:10 PM
Something tells me that #2 or a variation of same is the logical approach, as it would keep the motor more "balanced"! Presumably this "original" engine is the original 83mm bore? I'm a bit surprised that even Neil Revington has 83mm pistons and liners readily available. (Or is it just that they're out there but REALLY pricey these days?)

Banjo
04-24-2007, 09:52 PM
Yankee. You may wind up having to take out #3 cyl as well, unless you manage to remove #4 without destroying the figure 8 gasket that goes around the base of cylinders 3 and 4. but even then I'd be skeptical about how well the gasket will re-seal. That gaskets thickness is critical to the head gasket seal as well.
SOunds like fun.. I'm getting ready to rebuild the front end of TS5012 here soon I'm sure it's about the same as yours. Are you going to use the TRF Magic kit, or just order necessary parts from somewhere? I'm just weighing my options based on what everybody else is doing.

YankeeTR
04-25-2007, 08:36 AM
Yankee. You may wind up having to take out #3 cyl as well, unless you manage to remove #4 without destroying the figure 8 gasket that goes around the base of cylinders 3 and 4. but even then I'd be skeptical about how well the gasket will re-seal. That gaskets thickness is critical to the head gasket seal as well.
SOunds like fun.. I'm getting ready to rebuild the front end of TS5012 here soon I'm sure it's about the same as yours. Are you going to use the TRF Magic kit, or just order necessary parts from somewhere? I'm just weighing my options based on what everybody else is doing.
Banjo,

You were right about the Fo8 gasket...see my next post.

I'm not sure about my course of action on the bushings. I may replace just the bad ones with new..or I may replace the bad upper a-arm with another used unit I have in stock...don't know yet but I want to DRIVE this thing not work on it all summer.

Big jobs are what winter is for!

YankeeTR
04-25-2007, 09:14 AM
Ok...here's a full report on last night's findings.

After a couple of false starts trying to remove the #4 sleeve 'gently' I brought out an old friend...a 3' section of 1/2" water pipe with a peened-over reducer at the end. I have used this on several 'stuck' engines when removing rusted in place pistons.

That pipe, and a 3 lb. maul, did the trick and I got #4 out of the block. Of course I also ruined the Fo8 gasket. What surprised me was the sheer volume of RUST and SCALE that was inside the water jackets...unbelievable! I have a pile of rust on my shop floor that's about 3/4" high by 10" in diameter...from ONE cylinder! So much for storing a car without any antifreeze in the cooling system.

So, knowing that I must really de-rust the cooling system and also replace at least one Fo8 gasket, I pulled liner #3...more rust. But a PERFECTLY clean piston....and rod bearing that shows almost no wear. This is a good thing.

Tonite I will also pull the last two sleeves out of the block and fire up my pressure washer and give the inside of the cooling sustem a good once over.

Enjoy the pics...

#4 coming out...notice the rust damage from water getting into the cylinder.
https://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/TR-3/IMG_1945.jpg
Where's Rusty Jones when you need 'em?
https://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/TR-3/IMG_1959.jpg
Note the small area where a little corrosion marked the crankshaft oil hole...how many years of storage did it take to do this?
https://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/TR-3/IMG_1956.jpg
Nice clean piston...
https://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/TR-3/IMG_1955.jpg
Yuk...
https://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/TR-3/IMG_1949.jpg
Another clean piston...
https://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/TR-3/IMG_1954.jpg

YankeeTR
04-26-2007, 09:04 AM
Last night I was a little short on time so i didn't get much accomplished on the engine.

I did manage to remove the # 1 and #2 sleeves. I was surprised to find much less corrosion in the water passages than on the two rear cylinders. Perhaps the car was stored on an incline and the water that remained in the engine was in the rear half ? Who knows.

But I DO know that I'm getting pretty good at tearing down a TR block. Two pistons and two liners removed in about 20 minutes!

Banjo
04-26-2007, 08:59 PM
I'll be there soon. I'm waiting till I'm closer to having the rest of the car ready before I do the engine. I want to be able to start it as soon as the rebuild is done and not let it sit. Same with the brake system. Chassis and body first on TS5012.
Picked up a radiator today. very good shape, with crank hole. I'm pleased.
YankeeTR, I mentioned the fig8 gasket cause even if you just installed it, knocking a cyl sleeve out ruins it most times.
Putting the new one in is critical. use some Wellseal on both sides of the gaskets, and make sure all surfaces are spotless. After seating the sleeves they should "stand proud" of the top of the block by a few thousandths. This ensures that the head gasket seals and that there is enough pressure on the fig8 gaskets too. If the old gasket is crushed, then the sleeved will be flush with the block.
I actually pulled an engine apart that a guy had just layed the fig8s on top of the sleeves under the head gasket. Guess he coulden't figure out what they were for.
Also, for the life of your new head gasket, RE-TORQUE! after you've run the engine, gotten it warm, let it cool down, and re-torque the head bolts. or the gasket WILL blow.
SOrry if I'm just rambling on about stuff you already know. I figured, better to hear it again that to be wondering about it. I'll hush up now.

Don Elliott
04-27-2007, 05:07 PM
Rick - A while back, you were asking for an 83mm liner. Are you still needing one ?

Don

YankeeTR
04-30-2007, 09:32 AM
I could still use one. All of my spare engines are 86 mm.

I do have one but it needs to be bored. If you have one that is in good shape and only needing a hone job I'd be in business.

let me know.

Rick