View Full Version : TR2/3/3A Just removed the 3A front apron

03-22-2007, 09:36 PM
The dpo removed the apron and sawed the ends off the valance cross-brace so the apron was not tied to the inner fenders. So that need replacing.

While it's off, what else should I do besides the obvious?

<u>My obvious list:</u>
R&R radiator (crank hole already done)
clean out water drain on side of block
new waterpump
change TR3 fan to early TR250 fan
new motor mounts
new timing chain cover gasket & seal, check tensioner
rewire new headlight harness with relays
steering box drain&fill
replace broken stator tube
check inner rod ends & steering parts
add crank guide and support (for looks)
clean accumulated grease from suspension (I did say obvious)

03-23-2007, 07:54 AM
Rebuild steering unit?

03-23-2007, 07:54 AM

It would be a good time to add rack and pinion steering...It's one of the best things I did to the car along with the Toyota 5 speed... The apron must be off to install it..

Then you won't have to repair the broken stator tube...

03-23-2007, 09:01 AM
Roy -

If I had a job (bleak job market for a 25year IT specialist in central Maine) and and extra $1500++, then I might consider the r&p conversion. But my early 3A also doesn't have a split column so I'd need that too. And then swap to electric fan only (I have an electric assist now.)

But honestly, there's nothing wrong with the way the 3A steers once it gets moving. And the steering is nice and tight, no slop. So I don't see a problem here. Maybe down, the road. Besides the apron was a piece of cake to remove and it can come off again sometime for major surgery - this is just a maintenance job before the snow melts.

The HVDA was another matter all together. We needed the highway gear, and the hydraulic t/o is wonderful.

Anything else that I might have missed in my "maintenance list?"

Don Elliott
03-23-2007, 09:37 AM
Why change the waterpump if it's working fine? Many of the repros have smaller impellers made of cast iron. The originals are brass or bronze.

For a few dollars, be sure to put in a new timing chain tensioner. They last about 60,000 miles. You will find grooves worn into the present one.

A new crank guide and support is essential if you plan to possibly need to use the hand-crank. I agree that it will also "look" correct. But it's usefulness is more important.

03-23-2007, 10:19 AM
Up to you...I planned on and changed out the tensioner, timing gears, and chain while I was there. The chain had some stretch to it after 68,000 and the tensioner, well lets just say that it had a little more than just some grooves in it. I'd say daylight shining through was a more accurate description.

If you are changing out the engine mounts now's the time to do the tranny mount as well. Mine were the consistency of jello and it's amazing how the clutch chatter went away after the new mounts were installed. Once you get it all apart it should become pretty obvious what you will need to do.

03-23-2007, 11:16 AM
The tranny mounts are new with the HVDA 5-speed and the engine mounts "look" new but I have a new set I will put in anyways just to be safe. No chatter at all with the HDVA coversion.

Tensioner is a good idea and I have on instock. Also have the gears and chain of they appear needing replacement.

To Don - The crank guide is just to keep as many of the original parts on the car as I can. My radiator was recored and the hole will filled in for better cooling so the guide is strictly just for looks. But I will take my spare radiator to the shop and have it tested and cleaned and then swap it out.

The waterpump is the origin type with zerk so I probably will leave it unless I find leaks or play in the shaft.

Good suggestions! thanks!!

03-23-2007, 11:20 AM
Fix the air ducting to do a better job of guiding the inlet air into the radiator.
Consider the kevlar radiator hoses and make sure that you plug the bypass hose.
When you add that yellow fan blade make sure you mount it the correct way. I know that a lot of the guys here mount it backwards and claim that it makes no difference.
However - I tested it facing both ways with an Alnor HVAC air flow meter and the difference was very significant. I had to make a new adapter which went on the end of the crank to locate the blades correctly relative to the radiator - so it is not easy.
Also Now would be a great time to look carefully at all the front suspension pivots. Rebuilding the front suspension is not quite as bad as you might think.

03-23-2007, 01:25 PM
Thanks JP,

Already have Kevlar hoses - those are easy to replace even with the apron on so I did. I put in a flow restrictor (3/4" copper pipe end with 3/16" hole_ and it made absolutely no difference in running temperature. I also built custom aluminum radiator ducting last summer, so I'm good there too.

The yellow fan that I will use is a (rare) early TR250-1968TR6 7 blade fan with rounded tips, not the square tipped one you're thinking of. It fits w/o mods and has to be better than the original aluminum one. I have a tropical setup on my 4A with a custom aluminum hub. I will post a fan picture comparison when I get in from my shop later this afternoon,

Front suspension is new poly bushing and yes, also a relatively easy job once you get things cleaned up. Trouble is trying to do the maint and still have a summer drive without tearing it all apart, blasting and powder coating things (like my 4A that's still apart!)

My goal is to keep this one one the road until I get the 4A done, then this one gets the once over.

Thanks JP!!

03-23-2007, 03:19 PM
I just had my front panel off to repair the radiator. While I was there I replaced the fan belt and repainted the horns. You will have easy access to the silent blocks on the steering should you need to replace them or upgrade them to bronze. I put plenty of copper grease on the bolts and lots of waxoyl on all the metal to metal joints.

Geo Hahn
03-23-2007, 05:51 PM
...R&R radiator (crank hole already done)...

Maybe you should put the old crank hole on eBay for someone who doesn't have one but wants one.

Seriously, I agree the water pump is best left as is, particularly if original style. Nothing's really gained by replacing it now anyway -- real easy to R&R anytime later.

03-23-2007, 06:14 PM
Get new horns. I never liked the reaction of people when they started to merge into the lane I was in. I would give them a honk and they would look and then continue to merge, not seeing the car that went with the honk. I would get some that are shrill and piercing.

I take it you are getting an electric fan, although you probably don't need it in Maine as much as I need mine here in Fresno (113 a few days last summer). If you are getting one, then you don't need to worry about your ducting. I had a TR3a mouth on my TR3, with no ducting and the electric fan kept the flow nicely.

Might as well check your alignment while you are down there.

Andrew Mace
03-23-2007, 07:35 PM
Get new horns...some that are shrill and piercing....Really? You're referring to the original horns? The ones that always sounded to me like an angry city bus? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif I always found them quite effective...admittedly, that was 32 years ago (has it really been THAT long since I've driven my TR3A? Wow!)....

03-23-2007, 08:04 PM
Get new horns...some that are shrill and piercing....Really? You're referring to the original horns? The ones that always sounded to me like an angry city bus? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif I always found them quite effective...admittedly, that was 32 years ago (has it really been THAT long since I've driven my TR3A? Wow!)....

I couldn't agree more! One of the things I love best about my '3 is that horn sound.... no modern horn sounds like that!

I just had my front panel off to repair the radiator. While I was there I replaced the fan belt and repainted the horns.

Somewhere I read where someone suggested hanging an extra fan belt when mounting a new one; when that one fails, just bring the hanging one forward. Not close to my '3, to see how that would work...

03-23-2007, 08:47 PM
Silent bloc bushings sound like something else I should consider. How much different are the bronze/stainless from BFE versus the stock rubber bushings? This is not an autocross car like my 4A plans to be (someday.)

03-24-2007, 08:07 AM
I plan on installing the yellow TR6 cooling fan. What kind of adapter is needed to do the install so the blades are facing the right way? I've also read that the rad can be moved forward 3/4" to get clearance for this fan? Anyone done this?

03-24-2007, 08:15 AM
There is another set of mounting hols on the bottom bracket of the radiator but they are not threaded. I suspect you could weld a couple of nuts on the bracket and move the rad forward. Then you would have to adjust the top rad supports, use a longer upper radiator hose (from a TR4A?).

Thinking of doing the same, but haven't worked out the details yet. Probably just minor stuff.

03-24-2007, 08:33 AM
If your using the TR250 fan it looks like its much thinner than the yellow one. You might not have to move the rad at all?

03-24-2007, 10:22 AM
The TR250 should fit no problem and I will use it on <u>my</u> car, but the later TR6 yellow fan would hit.

For those who do not such a collection to chose from /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif ,
many have simpy reversed the fan and still get much better air than the original TR2-3-4 fan. But, as noted, not as much flow as the correct fan orientation.

Geo Hahn
03-24-2007, 11:19 AM
...Somewhere I read where someone suggested hanging an extra fan belt when mounting a new one; when that one fails, just bring the hanging one forward...

A useful thought for a TR4 where you usually have to loosen a motor mount and jack up the engine a bit to get the new belt on...but on a TR3 there is just a bit more clearance and you can usually squeeze it thru though you may need to crank the steering all the way to lock to improve the clearance a bit.

Don Elliott
03-24-2007, 01:55 PM
Use a fan belt that has cogs on it. Check Gates - mine I believe is a Gates 985. They are thinner in the vertical height and are more flexible. Therefore you can fit them on without any trouble and they flex around the pulleys. Mine has been on since I snapped the last one (a heavy original style) back in 1993 and I've driven 81,000 miles since then with this cogged belt. I was on the highway 300 miles from home when it broke and it took me less than 5 minutes at the side of the road to put on my spare belt, the new cogged one. The old rigid ones are a pain to put on - too rigid, too wide and too high to fit them around things you can't see down there and they are too stiff to flex around the pulleys. They want to stay straight and so they break after about 5,000 miles. It's time for me to make another change because I can't get any more adjustment on the pulley on the front of the generator. The belt seems to have stretched. But I really think the "V" side-walls have worn, so the belt is no longer a s wide as it was when new, therefore it's sitting deeper in the pulley grooves.

Don't tighten the belt too tightly, no matter which type you have. Tighter means it'll break sooner and the bearings in your water pump and generator will go on you. And your water pump will start to leak too. It needs to be just tight enough so that it doesn't slip with that squealing slipping sound when you accelerate.

03-24-2007, 07:54 PM
Today I removed the bumper supports, radiator shield, electric fan, radiator, fan belt, front pulley, tie-rods, idler, center-link. After trying the prying method on the linkpins, I used a little MAPP gas and they pins popped right out (lucky I guess). I then pressed them out of the center link.

So here's what I came up with:

- Replace radiator with my spare which looks much better but will get it checked.
- New tie rod ends ordered for both sides inner & outer
- New silent blocs, original rubber type over bronze to save $$.
- New timing chain tensioner, gasket & front seal although nothing was leaking and the tensioner was still in one piece.
- Install kevlar lower & intermediate hoses from off the shelf with new clamps and new return pipe. I think my lower hose was from a Ford or something and the pipe was from plumbing supply!
- Install the TR250 fan.
- New s.s. stator tube from Mark Macy. My wife will like the blinker turning all by itself, like magic!
- Blast & powder coat all removed suspension pieces, bumper supports, fan pulley, timing cover, etc.
- Change steering box fluid, finish degreasing, paint, set toe.
- New front apron bolts, add missing upper cross brace, remount electric (pusher) fan, refit radiator duct.
- Make new headlight harness and wire in relays.

03-24-2007, 09:10 PM
Geez Don, you only got 81,000 miles from that Gates belt before it broke? Man, their QC is going down the drain these days...

That is truly unbelievable. I used to use their products exclusively at the dealerships where I worked. They were always the best at that time and i guess, still are.

Don Elliott
03-24-2007, 10:14 PM
Paul - It's still not broken. I've taken it off, still in one piece, because it has narrowed in width and this makes it sit lower in the "V" groove of the pulleys, therefore I had to make the adjustment on the belt tension by moving out the generator. I even thought of making the slot longer in the generator bracket bar to continue using that belt, but, as it is now, the body of the generator is almost touching the inner fender.