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bravenrace
03-08-2007, 08:26 AM
Would a '74 TVR 2500M be eligible for any type of vintage racing? I don't know much about the different organizations, but thought I heard that at least one of them wouldn't allow a car that new. I'd welcome any information about this or anything related to getting into vintage racing. I live in northern Ohio if that matters.
Thanks!
Jim

MGB12
03-08-2007, 09:00 AM
I don't know much about the TVR 2500M, but if that model was classified by SCCA in 1972, it should be approved for some organizations. The main thing is to contact the organization you would like to race with to check for compliance. A list of clubs can be found at https://www.v-m-c.org/Members/index.html

Twosheds
03-08-2007, 09:00 AM
What tracks are closest to you? Nelson Ledges? Mid-Ohio? Go to their websites and look at the schedules. Usually you can click on the name of the group sanctioning the event (like VSCDA or SVRA) and it'll take you to their website. Click on Car Eligibility or the like and read the rules.

Spectate at vintage races and ask the participants questions.

Keep asking questions on this forum.

I've never seen a vintage road race 2500M. I have heard that there are some, but not too many.

bravenrace
03-08-2007, 09:13 AM
Thanks. I know nothing about any vintage racing organizations. I will look it up, but anything anyone here can tell me would also be helpful.
As far as tracks go, I'm within a reasonable distance of several, including Nelson, Mid-Ohio, Beaverun, Gingerman, and VIR. Watkins Glen and Limerock are farther but also doable for a 3 day weekend.

aeronca65t
03-08-2007, 09:27 AM
Try VRG.

https://www.vrgonline.org/

Look at the Board of Directors and contact Mark Palmer..see what he says. They are pretty laid back.

Look at their '07 schedule. Worth watching one of their events even if you don't run.
My car is a '78 (chassis) but they let me run since the car is mostly back-dated to older Sprite appearance.

Their last event of the season (Turkey Bowl) is a mixed event and has been open to modern cars in the past. Nov 23-25. I know they'll be at The Glen in the Fall....I helped work that deal out.

Here's photos I took at a '06 VRG event:

https://liverpoolmotorclub.tripod.com/vrg-beaverun06.html


I had a good time racing this older Tivver at a VGR event at Summit last year:

https://www.at-speed.com/galleries/vintage/2006/09-30-06/images/IMG_0996.intermediate.jpg

WhatsThatNoise
03-08-2007, 10:32 AM
I would bet your car is legal under the "continuation car" rule.

This means that it must be nearly identical to a car manufactured before 1973.

I think all 2500M cars used the same bits.

If you want to go SCCA, there is a drivers school next month at Nelson.....I think the 21st? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

bravenrace
03-08-2007, 10:53 AM
My car is far from being ready for that! But thanks for the info! Do all of the clubs have that continuation rule?
By SCCA, are you talking about Production class, or do they have a vintage class now? Which do you run in?

JerryB
03-08-2007, 01:12 PM
""""" Do all of the clubs have that continuation rule?""""""

Most (but not all) have a production car cutoff of pre 1973.

That said....and was pointed out above, that if the car was visually and mechanically the same as say a 1969 model, then you could call your car a 1969.

IF this is a car that is for sale or you dont own it (yet) , you might put the horse BEFORE the cart and check elligibility of various vintage groups in your part of the world BEFORE you buy. The VMC (Vintage Motorsport Council) is the umbrella organization that most of the vintage clubs belong to. You can look on their website and get clubs names, then look on their websites in the rules section or call them.

You might also contact Victory Lane Magazine which is a monthly , specializing in Vintage/Historic racing with US and international coverge and race results, and subscribe . You might even get a free copy as a sample. They also have a website. Phone is 650-321-1411.

Also , and on this websites masthead is Vintage Motorsport magazine out of Florida who has mostly some east coast coverage and pictures.

Monkeywrench
03-08-2007, 02:06 PM
Here is the regulations for the TVR prepped to SVRA rules..

https://svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/attachmentweb/EJEN-68VKK5/$file/TVR.pdf?OpenElement

If you run with SVRA they'll make you run in Group 8. Here is the rules for that Group in addition to what you see above.

https://svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/attach...pdf?OpenElement (https://svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/attachmentweb/EJEN-5ZGGAS/$file/Group+8+Regulations.pdf?OpenElement)

If you have any questions about the TVR in SVRA, email head of tech Jack Woehrle at Jack@svra.com .

Talk to Triumph 6cyl racers. They will be able to help you out.

Just about all organizations will let the car run with them if it is prepped to SVRA rules.

WhatsThatNoise
03-09-2007, 03:00 AM
Generally speaking......

If the car is older than you are.....You should vintage race it.

On the other hand.....If it is not.....

You should beat it mercilessly until it is completely dead.
(Special exception for Brit. or rare cars like yours)

I will be at Nelson during their drivers school....
You should come!, we could talk/drink beer & you will be entertained with what is going on there.

You will learn more in one day than you could possibly hope to learn in a thousand posts.

I will personally get you in,(No spectators event) introduce you to everyone AND buy you all the beer you can drink.

bravenrace
03-09-2007, 07:35 AM
That sounds great. I've actually been to one of their driver's schools before with a couple friends of mine, but I didn't drive. I have attended many other driver's schools, mostly BMWCCA and PCA, and I road raced sprint and enduro karts for a while. I've also extensively autocrossed, and also done some high speed autocrossing, even at Nelson. What I haven't done officially, is race side by side in a car in a real race, which is something I've wanted to do for a long time. I had a bunch of autocross buddies get into Improved Touring for a while in the 90's. I was going to do it also, but after seeing all the wreckage and cheating and cost, I decided not to.
I'm thinking vintage racing might be the ticket. When my car was born I was 14 years old, so I don't know about that.
You never said, is this a standard SCCA driver's school, like you would take to get your competition license, or something else? Either way, I'd like to attend, meet you, meet others, drink beer - Any time I've ever had around racing and other car guys has been a good time and very worthwhile. I'll have to check out the date, but if you're serious and I can make it, I'd like to.

WhatsThatNoise
03-09-2007, 10:40 AM
I was going to do it also, but after seeing all the wreckage and cheating and cost, I decided not to.
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gifYep...There is that /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
But you will have more in making the Tiver race worthy than you will in buying a race ready POS IT car.
If you can preserve your car while SCCA racing, you will have no trouble doing so in vintage.
(My el-cheapo car has been in one piece for about 10 years)
And the license cost of SCCA is MUCH less than a pro school.

Anyway....I'll be flagging April 21/22 for the school.
(Don't know if I'll be working the start tower or a corner)
Have you ever flagged?

My first race is 28/29 April at Nelson.

bravenrace
03-09-2007, 11:05 AM
No, I've never flagged. But I'd like to come if I can work it out. So it would be that weekend, the 28-29th?
I'll see if I've got anything going on that weekend.

WhatsThatNoise
03-09-2007, 02:30 PM
April 21-22 would be better if you want to try flagging.

I can get a 3 man corner and we can watch all the noobs bang into each other. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/nonod.gif /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

bravenrace
03-09-2007, 02:46 PM
Okay, I'll get back to you on that.

tr8todd
03-10-2007, 08:53 AM
If you want to get into road racing, a great place to start would be in a SCCA IT class. I would buy a used, all ready built IT car. Something reliable and cheap like a Civic or a Golf. While you are learning to road race, you can build your TVR. Once the TVR is done, sell the IT car and go get your vintage licence. You will have the helmet and other gear, as well as some experience. Hopefully you have the truck and trailer you will need. It's expensive to get started.

WhatsThatNoise
03-10-2007, 09:07 AM
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif Yep......He speaks truth....

bravenrace
03-10-2007, 09:33 AM
Hmm, I already have two Civic si's. Originally I was going to build one into an IT car. I have almost everything I would need to do that. But I was turned off by the experience of some of my buddies. I am good friends with five guys who ran IT for a few years. The rampant cheating, high cost, and vulnerability of getting taken out by less than talented drivers drove them all out of it. While I don't have auto road racing experience so to speak, I will tell you that when I've been at Mid-Ohio in a car that could make 1:41 laps, it felt like slow motion compared to my kart, and that was side by side racing. My thinking was that the TVR could satisfy both the enthusiast in me and the racer. I though that vintage racing would be a better way to go, thinking that contact with other cars would be something everyone wanted to avoid.
So I'm a little confused. Why would IT be a better way to go? Seems like in the end it would be much more expensive, and I'd end up building two cars instread of one (and I don't even have the time to build one, honestly).
Don't take this wrong, I'm not doubting your advice, just trying to understand it.
Thanks,Jim

Monkeywrench
03-10-2007, 12:19 PM
IT is great because used race cars are so cheap for that class. The cars are reliable for the most part and for dollars and track time you can't go wrong. If you just want to get on the track and go racing, then IT is for you.

It seems you want a little more than that, and are looking more for a little more. As great as IT is, it is a little hard to get excited over the myriad of Mazda's, VW's, etc.

Vintage racing can be done on the cheap, but like IT, to run at the front of the bigger groups is going to require quite the effort in prep. I've seen guys out there in MG's with roll bars, a fuel cell and just general safety equipment. If you show up like this, most clubs don't seem to mind dropping you down to a slower run group, and a lot of times you'll still find cars to race with. If you show up with an IT prepped sort of car, ie: gutted interior, full cage, uprated suspension, and a mildly built motor, you'll be running mid pack and you will be involved in some good clean racing.

To run at and near the front, you'll need a full prep motor, close ratio's gearbox, a very sorted suspension set-up, along with driving experience (some of these guys have been racing for 35+ years).

Get in contact with TR6 racers, and they will tell you what you need as far as the driveline is concerned. If you already have the car, and will be doing most of the wrenching yourself, I would think you could run in the middle of the pack with about a $12,000 investment (remember these older cars have problem area's that need to be addressed meaning a more dollars)... but then again, you could have bought at least two IT cars for that price.

WhatsThatNoise
03-10-2007, 02:55 PM
In order to get a vintage racing license you need a Skip Barber type 3 day school (4 thousand $ or MORE) PLUS a 2 day VRG/VSCCA like school (like 200 bucks)

OR a SCCA license (Two 2 day schools at $275.00 each) + the 2 day vintage school.

You can BUY a car & get a SCCA license for about the same price as the pro school.
AND HAVE the car!!!

Later you can sell the thing, if you don't smash it to bits, and end up getting your real deal vintage license for a lot less.

FOUR THOUSAND FREAK'N DOLLARS for NOTHING!!!(NO license, NO car)
And the vintage guys will look at you very suspiciously on account of you only having 5 days of experience.

Don't take this personally but, I'd stay the heck away from you. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

MGB12
03-11-2007, 12:00 AM
Don't lump all the vintage group into on. CVAR in Texas requires one driver school with lots of track time (three day weekend held in conjunction with one of their races), and I believe three or four race weekends on a novice permit. The driver school weekend has a $400 entry fee and the remainder of the races have entry fees of $200 each. All this is done in your prepared competition car. Oh I forgot the expense of the tape to put the X on the car.

On completition of the novice permit you can apply for a VMC license that good with all its member organizations.

WhatsThatNoise
03-11-2007, 04:30 AM
Don't lump all the vintage group into on. CVAR in Texas requires one driver school with lots of track time
It seems your organization requires LESS overall tack time than we do here.....

A novice permit allows you to take part in wheel to wheel racing....Does it not?

https://www.corinthianvintagerace.com/driverlicense.html

Basically it comes down to this.....

If you can't just walk away from your TOTALED car.....
DON'T RACE IT!!!

This is why my Elva is an Auto-Xer & NOT a W2W car (Wheel to wheel)
NEVER race a car that you really care about...
Racing is NOT about the car....It's about RACING!!!

A TVR is a powerful yet fragile car w/ a soft, squishy human being inside.
You have 2 strikes against you starting out.
Get experience first....Then go vintage.

bravenrace
03-11-2007, 08:14 AM
In order to get a vintage racing license you need a Skip Barber type 3 day school (4 thousand $ or MORE) PLUS a 2 day VRG/VSCCA like school (like 200 bucks)

OR a SCCA license (Two 2 day schools at $275.00 each) + the 2 day vintage school.

You can BUY a car & get a SCCA license for about the same price as the pro school.
AND HAVE the car!!!

Later you can sell the thing, if you don't smash it to bits, and end up getting your real deal vintage license for a lot less.

FOUR THOUSAND FREAK'N DOLLARS for NOTHING!!!(NO license, NO car)
And the vintage guys will look at you very suspiciously on account of you only having 5 days of experience.

Don't take this personally but, I'd stay the heck away from you. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

David, points well taken. In fact, everyone's points well taken! But don't sell me short on driving skill. A little background:

I've been racing karts and cars and autocrossing for 25 years. I've won many races, autocross events, and regional and divisional championships. I've attended many performance driving schools over the years, Helped teach at a BMCCA school and used to be the chief instructor for an autocross school. The karts I raced had a weight to power ratio of about 6:1 and topped out at 130mph - 2" off the ground. I've also raced many IT cars over the years, just not in IT races. My buddies and I used to rent Nelson Ledges for testing a couple times a year. I was the only one that didn't have an IT car, but it didn't matter because I could lap faster than any of them in my car. We basically raced side by side all day long, switching cars to get opinions on handling, etc... I'm not ignoring the learning curve of competitive side by side auto racing, just pointing out that I'm not a beginner either. I know very well the type of guy you'd have to stay away from, and I'm not him. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
Still, I understand what you are saying. The details you just provided are what I was looking for. Maybe vintage racing isn't the way to go. I was just trying to combine two things with one car. I wouldn't be out to win, just have fun. But my experience with IT was enough that I will not be doing that either. Because in IT I have seen too many idiots on the track, and I would be out to win without cheating, which I'm not sure is possible. Maybe I'll just set up the TVR for autocrossing and open track days.

Monkeywrench
03-11-2007, 09:25 AM
If you have racing experience, you might become bored with track days. Start going to vintage races this season to see what it is all about, Mid Ohio has a few.

Also there are a lot of rent-a-rides at vintage races. If you have the money, it might be worth trying out to see if you really want to go racing. From the looks of your experience, you might be able to get a license without going to school. You can try talking to SVRA's competition director and ask him.


Carl Jensen
Phone: (561) 753-5907
Mobile: (561) 379-7751
Fax: (561) 753-2203
e-Mail: Carl@svra.com

aeronca65t
03-12-2007, 05:38 AM
Actually, if you can document your experience, you might be able to get an EMRA license in one weekend. Cost is less than $200. We have several members who rent cars too (for race schools). Many of the vintage groups (including VRG and SVRA) will accept an EMRA license. And, at least one SCCA region is accepting our license (but I can't say who, or they'll get in trouble with the Home Office).
PM me if you're intrested.

Nial (EMRA RaceChair)

bravenrace
03-16-2007, 01:38 PM
Actually, if you can document your experience, you might be able to get an EMRA license in one weekend. Cost is less than $200. We have several members who rent cars too (for race schools). Many of the vintage groups (including VRG and SVRA) will accept an EMRA license. And, at least one SCCA region is accepting our license (but I can't say who, or they'll get in trouble with the Home Office).
PM me if you're intrested.

Nial (EMRA RaceChair)

Thanks for that good information. Neither my car nor me are quite ready to start racing in any form - maybe next year. But this gives me an idea of how to build the car.
Thanks again, and if anyone has anything to add, please do.
-Jim