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View Full Version : Oil pump and timing gears and chain?



tomshobby
03-05-2007, 04:42 PM
I am getting parts on hand for building the engine for my '76 TR6. Plan on pulling it in two to three weeks and thought it would make things easier if I was somewhat prepared.

Two things I am wondering about.

Should I just replace the oil pump or rebuild the original and where is the best source for pump or parts.

Another thing is that I learned to buy timing "sets" because the chain and gears were more sure to match. Are sets available for the TR6? And again where is the best source for either sets or individual parts.

Thanks in advance.

03-05-2007, 07:07 PM
First, there is no rebuilding an oil pump, just replacing. The cammed pump has no parts for rebuilding. Just make certain that you buy the later model pump, higher volume. It will fit any TR6.

Chains and sprockets are available as a matched set. If your sprockets look fairly good, don't go through the hassle of changing them. The tips will be very sharpened, which doesn't necessarily mean they are worn too much. The aggravation of re-clocking the marks on the new sprockets can be a real issue. Assuming your sprockets are originals. When I modified my engine, I went with the Kent adjustable sprocket and double chain to be able to tune my cam to the Nth degree. A real learning experience.

I happened to check out my new performance cam from beneath the engine over the weekend with a strong flashlight and no oil pan from beneath and my micrometer vision showed no abnormal wear. I must have done something right.

The point is, new sprockets can be a challenge.

Also, make sure you put in a new chain tensioner.

03-05-2007, 07:09 PM
Oh, and where to buy. TRF, TRF, TRF (no personal connection here, just usually always get the best quality parts first time around. Usually.)

tomshobby
03-05-2007, 07:46 PM
Hi Bill,

Missed reading your comments the last few days.

Got it, TRF is where I will go!

Glad to know about the oil pump. Thought there might be a high volume one for these cars and they were right in front of me.

I was thinking about an adjustable sprocket but thought I would try a standard one first and if it only needs a small amount of adjustment I will put it on a rotary table and mill the holes into slots. Nice when a guy can do those things. If it needs too much I will then do what you did and get an adjustable sprocket.

When you set your cam timing did you set it at the 0, or set it for higher torque at the lower end or the upper?

03-05-2007, 07:56 PM
When you set your cam timing did you set it at the 0, or set it for higher torque at the lower end or the upper?


That's all a blur to me, Tom. I just used whatever Richard Good told me to set on the sheet that cam with the cam, GP2. All I know, having never done it before and not able to get anyone to help ( they all ran ), I played the dickens getting TDC and all that to make sure that timing the spot-on. I am confident that I did indeed get it right. So, to answer your question, I haven't a clue.....

Brosky
03-05-2007, 08:06 PM
TRF definitely has a better set of gears than Moss. I had both, used TRF due to Erik at Her Majesty's preference Never did get around to returning those Moss parts on time. Oh well, more for ebay someday.

Just make sure that you follow the cam manufacturers procedure for lubing the cam prior to installing and oil recommendations for and during break-in period.

tomshobby
03-05-2007, 09:16 PM
I am installing the GP2 also Bill. And like Paul suggests, I will follow Richard's instructions fully.

In the past I always ordered matched sets of chain and gears when I could. I was mostly working on American engines but they seemed to fit better than ordering individual parts. Would be nice if a supplier would do that for our LBC's.

I put a lot of miles on my other Triumphs and other than replacing the pistons and liners in my TR4 and a valve job on my GT6 they did not need attention. The liners in the TR4 were only because I wanted to go faster. So in well over 100k they really held up. The transmissions and rear ends were a little different story.

Brosky
03-06-2007, 07:42 PM
Tom,

We're still waiting for pictures of this rebuild project. Have you started tearing it down yet?

tomshobby
03-06-2007, 10:48 PM
My current project (non-car related) should be out in a couple weeks and then it will be time to tear the TR6 down.

In the mean time I have been getting as well prepared as I can. The distributor is done and the carbs will go in this week yet. Most of the parts are already here. Will be installing cam bearings and will decide what to do about pistons after it is apart. I have not done an engine for a few years so it will probably take longer but I do hope to be running again by May 1st. Taking it apart and putting it back together don't take long, it is the machine shop time that will be the holdup if there is any.

I have never taken pictures while working on a car, maybe I can talk Shirley into it!

Brosky
03-07-2007, 01:32 PM
You'll be doing those here who have never seen the procedure a great service. Especially, if you can show what was worn and required replacement and what is normal and to be expected.

Sometimes what those of us who happen taken engines and transmissions apart, just take for granted that others know what we refer to offering suggestions to correct a problem and having a visual link to point people to could help them tremendously. Plus it may help some to not get ripped off as our friend Dale did in PR.

Just add the project to your website and give us the link.

Tell Shirley you'll give her a percentage of the movie rights when Hollywood calls.

tomshobby
03-07-2007, 04:40 PM
Paul,

I just got back from the machine shop. John is going to let me use an extra lift for the project so I don't have to worry about that. Also - just for you /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I am going to take pictures while he is doing the work on the engine head and block. How is that?

He has an interesting project in there now. It is supposed to be a 1947 Triumph race car. I will be finding out more about it and try and give a report of some kind. Apparently there is supposed to be some special car show coming up in England and they want this car so bad that they are going to pay shipping both ways to have it there. I was actually providing some tech assistance on the engine today.

Oh, my old Matco dealer showed up and the subject of the seized cars came up and I learned more about it, WOW!! There are still missing cars from that deal. Steve, my old dealer, and John, know the guy and all three of us know another guy that has had dealings with him.

bobh
03-07-2007, 05:31 PM
Tom,
It's been quite a few years since I built an engine. I also do not know what Richard includes in his instructions. However I have read a lot over the past year about the changes to motor oil. If you are not aware of the changes you may want to read some of the info on the site I copied below.
The bottom line is most maunfacturers use roller cams. These can stand less of the ZDDP anti wear aditives than our Flat Tappet cams/followers. There are a number of break in additives and cam assembly lubes. I think these are more necessary than ever for breaking in a new cam.
One of the recommendations is to use Diesel oil. Even the good Diesel oil is starting to dissappear from the stores in my area. Shell Rotella T with the CI- 4 or CI-4 Plus is recommended. I bought several gallons last weekend. I had to buy the remaining 5 or 6 bottles from several stores to get that much. Most of what I saw is the new CJ-4 which has less ZDDP.
This may seem extreme to some members. I have 2 TR6 powered vehicles, a spare TR6 engine and a '51 Ford Pickup with a Flathead V8. All of which will be going through a rebuild or a cam installation at some point. I want to be sure I have the proper oil to correctly break in the cam.
See
https://www.hotrod.com/searchresults/?sco...&go.x=14&go.y=5 (https://www.hotrod.com/searchresults/?scope=t&sitename=hotrod&terms=Flat+Tappet+Cam+Tech&go.x=14&go.y=5)
And
https://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/flat_tappet_cam_tech/oil_summary.html

If this doesn't work search on Flat tappet cams and look for articles about oil.
BOBH

Brosky
03-07-2007, 05:45 PM
Good man, he is!!

Thanks Tom, but it's more for the young-ins than an old has been like me. I've only had two Triumphs apart on my own, a TR6 and a GT6, both oddly enough for blown head gaskets, back in mid 70's.

However, I can't count the others that I've torn down and built up, from 312 Ford's to 4100 Cadillac aluminum blocks.

The machining aspect will be a benefit to us all though, since I have have never seen what a good machine shop will do building up a TR6 engine and my little engine may follow yours in the next year. This should prove to be quite interesting.

Between all of the projects that have been documented over the past two years, we have quite a knowledgeable group growing here at the "Team BCF".

Andrew Mace
03-07-2007, 10:13 PM
Paul,

I just got back from the machine shop. ...

He has an interesting project in there now. It is supposed to be a 1947 Triumph race car. I will be finding out more about it and try and give a report of some kind.... Is that a typo? I'm trying to figure out what it could be, given that the only Triumphs in 1947 were the Roadster and "Renown"; neither could ever have been considered a potential race car!

Whatever, I'm looking forward to hearing more about it!

Twosheds
03-08-2007, 08:20 AM
Maybe it's that Roadster with the American V-8 in it that was raced!

tomshobby
03-08-2007, 08:33 AM
Andrew,

That is what I was told. And that there were only 50 made. Who ever is holding the car show in England wants it bad enough that they are willing to pay shipping both ways. I will be finding out more because it has me "very" interested too. And when I find out I will report back. I asked several times about the age and suggested it might not be that old.

Bob H.,

Yes, I have read several reports about the changes in makeup of the new oils. I plan on using Castrol HD 30. I understand it has the ZDDP and Moly ingredients needed for the break-in period. Last I new, Rotella-T is also good. However, I will be checking before I trust any of them since the required ingredients have been very quietly been removed.

Andrew Mace
03-08-2007, 09:54 AM
Tom, I'll be watching for any report you can make...preferably in a new thread!

Brosky
03-08-2007, 06:10 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Maybe it's that Roadster with the American V-8 in it that was raced! [/QUOTE]

Wasn't that the Cad-Allard? I know that it wasn't but just about the same time frame. GI's came home from WWII knowing about light British cars that had decent sized engine compartments, V-8's began to become popular and the rest is history.

Twosheds
03-08-2007, 06:33 PM
I disremember the make of the V-8, Paul. Someone on Friends of Triumph was seeking information about it, I think.

Maybe someone wanted a Cad-Allard, but was on a Cad-Roadster
budget.

I asked my friend who has a Roadster about it and he knew nothing. He said that it must have been a handful to race, given the Roadster braking and handling even with the stock engine!