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Greg_Blake
01-20-2007, 12:13 PM
I will be urchasing a fuel cell in the near future to go in my 3. What fuel cell are you using? PROS/CONS If anyone has put one in a 3 I am interested in how you did it and what you would do differently next time.

Thanks,

Greg

tony barnhill
01-20-2007, 12:46 PM
I'm discussing the exact issue for my MGB GT with ATL right now...my old cell isn't going to cut it even though I replaced the foam & all the connections/fittings.

aeronca65t
01-20-2007, 01:11 PM
I have an ATL 8 gallon cell. I built my own "can" (the outer metal box) so I saved a few bucks.
ATL cells are FIA approved which makes a difference to some clubs...not to others.
A recent directive from ATL says that you should change the foam in the cell every year. This is due to stuff in modern street fuel. Mine's five years old with the original foam, so I suppose this is something I'll have to do fairly soon.

https://www.atlinc.com/US/racing.html

If you're on a budget (who isn't?), you can look at the Summit Racing or Jegs fuel cells.

~Summit Cells Here~ (https://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=fuel+cell&N=700+115+400304&Ntk=KeywordSearch)

Monkeywrench
01-20-2007, 02:05 PM
Here is what Nial is talking about when making your own box https://www.classicmotorsports.net/news.php?p=331

Watch what kind of gas you run. Ethonal, which eats cell foam, is being used more and more in gasolines (which I don't think is a bad thing). I'm not sure whether there is new, ethonal resistant foam out there from the cell companies, but just make sure you don't let gas sit in the cell for too long (ie: winter storage).

tony barnhill
01-20-2007, 02:20 PM
Now, I like that!! The problem with mine is somebody put the cell inside an aluminum box & there's no date on the cell itself....but, I can build that in the back of the GT..

My big question is: how did you attach the cell to the car?

& what model is your cell, Nial?

aeronca65t
01-20-2007, 03:21 PM
Mine is the ATL "Saver Cell".

They describe it as "good for the do-it-yourselfer". It came with drawings to make the outer can.

I have the SA108 which is an 8 gallon cell.
The SA110 is a 10 gallon, the SA112 is 12 gallon and so forth.
My 8 gallon is about 20" L by 12" W by 9" H.

I built the "can" from an old steel storage cabinet that they were throwing out at school (yes, I'm cheap). It was 18 gauge, so not too heavy. A little red paint made it look like a pro-job.

I choose ATL because it's FIA approved, which was required by the SVRA. At that point, I thought I'd be running some SVRA events, but I never have. My club (EMRA) and the vintage guys I run with (VRG) do not seem to care, so if I was doing it again, I might buy the cheaper Summit cell (The ATL Saver Cell was around $350, I think)

There are also "Saver Cell well cells" to fit in the spare tire well.

~THIS LINK~ (https://www.atlinc.com/US/racing.html) will take you to a page where you can download the entire ATL catalog.

Monkeywrench
01-20-2007, 03:36 PM
Tony,

Usually if one doesn't want to cut a hole in the trunk, they you can purchase or fab up straps to hold it down. You search google for examples. Most dedicated race cars usually cut a hole in the trunck and build a cradle which holds the fuel cell.. obviously you would strap it on the top side. If you are racing this is better as you can get the center of gravity lower. As Nial as pointed out, check with whomever you plan to run the car with.

tony barnhill
01-20-2007, 03:52 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Usually if one doesn't want to cut a hole in the trunk[/QUOTE]

Oh, I'm cutting the entire trunk floor out of the GT so that's not a problem. I want it as low as possible....the battery will stay in its stock location on the passenger side right in front of the rear end so I'm thinking the cell should go behind it & maybe the 2 will offset some of my weight - logical?

Twosheds
01-20-2007, 06:46 PM
Greg, the PPO of my old TR3 racecar (I guess I'm the PO now) made a 12 gallon ATL Saver Cell. He used galvanized steel for some reason (maybe it was free?) which is O.K. except that it looked like a garbage can, so I painted it red, the color for fuel according to the FAA.

He cut a hole in the trunk floor so the cell sits down in the spare tire compartment. But it still rises above the trunk floor. See attached photo.

I ran a vent hose up and then down to the wheel arch to an AN bulkhead fitting. I made a panel out of aircraft stainless steel firewall material in place of the stock fibreboard piece that covers the stock tank. I put the pump and filter on the forward side of this firwall (where the stock tank would be) and used AN bulkhead fittings to pass through the stainless.

Greg_Blake
01-20-2007, 07:37 PM
Great information. When you build the containment box, how does the cell ride in the box? Do you have to seperate the cell from the box or do you just let the cell rest in the box? In other words, are the inside dimensions of the containment box the same as the cell outside dimensions?

There is a huge difference in price from summit to ATL. Can anyone tell me the advantages to the ATL Saver cell over a comparable (size) cell from Summit?

Thanks,

Greg

tony barnhill
01-20-2007, 07:40 PM
Great question, Greg - I was going to ask it also!

aeronca65t
01-21-2007, 07:22 AM
....When you build the containment box, how does the cell ride in the box? Do you have to seperate the cell from the box or do you just let the cell rest in the box? In other words, are the inside dimensions of the containment box the same as the cell outside dimensions?....There is a huge difference in price from summit to ATL. Can anyone tell me the advantages to the ATL Saver cell over a comparable (size) cell from Summit?
....Greg

My cell *just* fits in the can. It's not loose in there...it basically just rests inside the box.

The advantage of the FIA cell is that it is FIA certified. I assume that it has be proven to pass certain tests, but I am not sure.
The Summit and Jegs cells are not FIA certified (so you wouldn't be able to race at LeMans /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif ).

I've seen the Summit cells and they look OK to me. Some cheaper cells do not come with the internal foam, so be sure that you get that too. Some of the Summit cells are for roundy-round racers and not suitable for road racing....be sure the fuel pickup is in the proper location.

I cut a rectangular hole in the floor of my Spridget. My cell is halfway above the floor and halfway below. I used 2" aluminum channel framing around this hole to strengthen it. My battery is to the right of the fuel cell and under the trunk floor (the red battery wire in the picture leads to it). The blue fuel line nearest the red battery wire goes to the Facet fuel pump (mounted next to the battery). The blue fuel line going off to the left leads to a vent.

I've put an 1/16" aluminum firewall in place of the cardboard panel that normally seperates the trunk from the passenger compartment. My master kill switch is in the top of the right rear fender (to keep the unswitched "hot" cable as short as possible). The heavy black cable comes out of the kill switch and goes forward to the engine compartment.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/aeronca65t/Cars/fuel-cell.jpg

JerryB
01-23-2007, 02:51 PM
""""""ATL cells are FIA approved which makes a difference to some clubs...not to others. """"""

MOST ATL are FIA approved.
ALL clubs should requre a minimum of FIA FT-3. Safety equipment should NOT be compromised....read on.

""""""A recent directive from ATL says that you should change the foam in the cell every year. """"

Foam deterioration can happen in a year or never. depends on the brew and composition of the gas and the time it sits in the cell. A 30 micron or so filter close to the cell outlet and inspect it regularly for foam particles. If found replace the foam.

"""""""""I have an ATL 8 gallon cell. I built my own "can" (the outer metal box) so I saved a few bucks. """"""""

I would suggest, unless you have a complicated shape that would requre compound curves, or a behind the seat wedge shape that you use the ready made steel sheet can that is made for the cell you are using. Trying to save $50 or so is false economy. With too thin sheet material you might be compromising the intrusion protection of the cell.

"""""""""""problem with mine is somebody put the cell inside an aluminum box """""""

The ready made Al "shoe boxes" by ATL or F.S. do save abit of weight. BUT...they are much harder to mount in a car as there is no attaching shelf in the upper perimiter of the box. Welding tabs on the Al can might not be aceptable practice.

""""""""so if I was doing it again, I might buy the cheaper Summit cell """""

I might suggest not. As in all the Jaz/Summit low bid tanks they have no intrusion or integrity certification....none...zip...nada. The bail handle fill caps leak, there is no check valve in the vent and there is no rollover protection. There is also not a large enough acess hole to inspect the cell or the can or the pickup(s). in addition, inspecting /removing/replacing the foam is almost impossible. Trying to save a hunderd or two dollars is just not worth it.

""""""""right in front of the rear end so I'm thinking the cell should go behind it & maybe the 2 will offset some of my weight - logical? """"""

Yes.


"""""""""""""There is a huge difference in price from summit to ATL. Can anyone tell me the advantages to the ATL Saver cell over a comparable (size) cell from Summit?"""""

If you take at the Fuel Safe Enduro cells with a metal can and compare it to the crap that Summit sells with a metal can (and add the price of foam) you might spend under $200 more for a unit that is made for racing.

""""""""""The advantage of the FIA cell is that it is FIA certified. I assume that it has be proven to pass certain tests, but I am not sure. """""""

Intrusion test, burst test, rollover test among others.


""""" Some of the Summit cells are for roundy-round racers and not suitable for road racing""""""

Its almost unbeleivable what some Associations/Groups do and don't require. Last months Circle Track mag (Jan 2007)has a series of pictures (6 pix) of a "Semi-Pro" Dwarf car and driver in a roll over crash. At first look it looks like the series of pictures were staged with ropes and jackstands and the car flailing over and around. A "3/8 mile asphalt track"......crew estimated that the car flipped violently 12 to 15 times"......But no.....it was for real. NO GLOVES, NO ARM RESTRAINTS, NO roll bar padding and his face shield was UP". "It was one of those 90* days" Mosley (driver) said...."so I did not wear my gloves..it was just so hot I took them off".

Hey it aint gonna happen to me he thought.....