PDA

View Full Version : A couple of quick questions.



TNTriumph
11-15-2006, 12:29 PM
I finally figured out all of my wiring. All of my head lights, blinkers, and any other lights now work. My question is my car is hard to start when it is cold, but if I put a space heater under it for about 10 min it will start right up. Could it be that the starter is going out. Also where thoses hoses that come off of the heater valve and off of that pipe of the right had side of the motor mine hook up above the battery. I have noticed from looking at other pictures that they go into the midsection of the fire wall. I have hookups there on the firewall. Should they be moved to the firewall or should they be left alone. Once again thank you guys for all the help.

TR6oldtimer
11-15-2006, 12:35 PM
The hoses connect to the heater through the firewall. Before properly connecting them, make sure your heater core or inside hoses do not leak.

The space heater and cold start is interesting. Is the problem with the hard cold start the starter not turning over or what?

tomshobby
11-15-2006, 12:50 PM
Like TR6oldtimer said, someone may have had a coolant leak under the dash. If so it would have been the inside hoses or heater core.
I have never had to replace the heater core. The hoses are not difficult IF the glove box is removed first.

Harry_Ward
11-15-2006, 01:45 PM
In addition to the starter is the choke working properly. I would be very careful with a space heater under one of these cars. Lots of vents to vent fumes. Open vent on gas tank, vents on carbs, even that big vent pipe coming off the engine for the crank would probably scare me. One of those plug in pre heater thingys might be a better choice if you need preheating.

Geo Hahn
11-15-2006, 05:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
...My question is my car is hard to start when it is cold... Could it be that the starter is going out...

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends what you mean by 'hard to start'. If it cranks slowing or unevenly then that may be a problem with the starter and the first thing to check would be that all grounds are present and sound.

If it cranks with alacrity then I would look first at the choke to see if it is getting the benefit of full movement. Can't comment specifically on TR6s but slop or maladjustment in choke mechanisms can make them less than totally effective.

I don't see how a space heater applied for a couple of minutes could have much affect on a cold engine.

11-15-2006, 05:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]




I don't see how a space heater applied for a couple of minutes could have much affect on a cold engine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif I think you are barking up the wrong tree with that space heater thingy. It is not unusual for a TR6 to be a little hard to start. The engine is a cold-natured beast. Choking is usually required. Mine takes about 5 minutes to come up to snuff after starting and reaching operating temperature. No heater will help that.

Also, sounds like someone must've bypassed a bad heater core by jerryrigging the heater hoses.


Bill

TNTriumph
11-16-2006, 01:16 AM
Well if the space heater is not under the car in cold conditions it takes awhile to run over. The starter will spin and it sounds like it is about to start, but with the space heater it will start right away. My father was in the car one day and got **** off like he tends to do, and pulled the choke pretty hard. I think he might have done something to it. Any suggestions on how to adjust it or make sure that is in the proper position. With the coolent hoses I had never seen them ran like they are on my car( above the battery) I have alway seen them into the mid section of the fire wall. Also I am not sure if the car has a heater core in it. I have yet to crawl under the dash and check. ANy more suggestions are welcome, and once again thanks for the help guys.

11-16-2006, 06:31 AM
I will give it to you that a car stored in a heated garage will start easier than a car stored in an icebox. We just assumed that you put a heater in the area of the engine for a few minutes. I will also agree that any kind of heater in a closed garage is potentially dangerous because the Triumph has many avenues of gasoline fume leakage. I, for one, have installed an automatic vent (long ago previous post) system in my one-car enclosed garage to mostly eliminate unwanted odors and fumes. Seems to work for me. Whenever I am working in the dead of winter (down here, that means cold but not that cold), I will use a space heater to keep my little tush warm.

Choke. The choke on the Triumph carb has a couple of issues. Number one, it is necessary to start the car, so you gotta have one that works. If you think that it might be a little wacked, disconnect both carbs from the choke cable. The little metal clips pry right off the ZS carbs and the cable has a set screw holding the actual cable. Slip these off the carbs and try to lube the cables themselves in the sheaths with a little graphite or other lubricant but repeatedly working the chole knob while lubing. Reinstall the cables by reversing the procedure. A little hint. The choke knob is much easier to pull if you will push your gas pedal down all the way right as you pull hard on the choke. You won't be flooding the car. Often the engine likes to have a little pumping action on the gas pedal while cranking, alternating between gas and no gas between cranks with the starter. Then feather the choke back as it comes to life. Might have to re-choke a bit as it tries to catch. Simply pulling hard on the choke knob puts a lot of stress on the cable, remember to floor it before the first pull. New cables are not that difficult to install, just require a bit of tight finger work as they snake in and around the heater hoses under the dash.



Bill

DougF
11-16-2006, 08:58 AM
We haven't had weather cold enough to really effect the car's ability to start.
First, I would clean all connections related to the starter if you didn't already during rewiring. If it isn't getting a good power source, performance will suffer. Make sure your battery cables are making good contact at both ends.
How much better does the engine turn over when it is warm?
Does the engine perform well when running? Did you have this problem before rewiring the car? Have you had the battery load tested? Pull #1 an #6 plugs. Are they burning black, white or tannish?
How long have you had the car? Do you know it's more recent maintenance history?
If you are concerned about a choking problem, try ether. If it starts with ease, you have a fuel problem.
My TR6 needs choked on the first cold start of the day. But in our most recent "cold spell" with lows into the 30's, it has been starting almost immediately.

TNTriumph
11-16-2006, 09:17 AM
I am pretty sure that the wiring is fine. The starter is the orginal, but I have a bran new hig torque starter sitting in my closet. Once the car is started it has to sit and run for awhile if not it bogs down under full throttle. I have tuned the car with new spark pulgs wires, coil, a new fuel pump and new air fileters. Also the car is a tr3 sorry I didn't mention that earlier. Thanks again guys

Harry_Ward
11-16-2006, 09:28 AM
I think you need to do a check of the choke cable to the carbs. Assuming you have su carbs. The choke cable wire might have slipped from it's holder to the linkage. Have someone engage pull on the choke and watch to see if the cable pulls the linkage which pulls both jets down from the base of the su carbs. Then push the choke in and make sure the jets return to the fully seated up position against the adjustment nut at the base of the su carbs. Failure of the choke to do either will mean poor starting and running at speed.

jayhawk
11-16-2006, 09:53 AM
Agree with Harry. My TR3 is very sensitive to the temperatures and folks in my local club who have TR3's say the same thing.
Mine fires right up above about 65 degrees (F) but needs choke and/or lots of coaxing below 50. Below 35 I use starting fluid if I really need to get it started quickly choke or no choke(rare that I need to do this)

TNTriumph
11-16-2006, 09:56 AM
So if the choke is not sitting back to its off position would that make it bog under full throttle. I checked it once and I could see the cable moving when it is pulled I am just worried that its not sitting back when it is pushed in. Thanks again guys.

Harry_Ward
11-16-2006, 12:35 PM
That is correct if the choke (actually it's the springs on the SU linkage that pulls the jets back up) does not fully return the jet assemblys to seat up tight against the adjusting nut the car will generally not run well. You will also smell exhaust. Depending on how far out the choke is out your spark plugs will look like the inside of a smoke stack and eventually foul out and the car will stop.

TNTriumph
11-16-2006, 01:15 PM
When I first start it some time and give it some gas fuel will shoot out the tail pipe, and when I changed out the spark plugs I noticed that it looked like it was running rich. Thanks for the helpful advice I will have to check out the choke.

Harry_Ward
11-16-2006, 01:25 PM
I hope and think it's probably only condensation (water) which is usually what comes out of the exhaust pipe as the car starts and warms up. If it's gasoline coming out the exhaust you will have bigger issues and should probably have a fire extinguisher at the ready.

habaneronut
11-16-2006, 11:59 PM
Got any idea when that long ago post/thread was, Bill? I'm a little leary of fumes in my garage, also, and would like to see what you all discussed without starting up the whole discussion again.

Fred

TNTriumph
11-17-2006, 12:48 AM
On second thought I don't think it is gas it would make sense that it was condensation because once it warms up it goes away. I have been using the space heater for as long as I have owned the car and nothing has happened yet. I never let it run to long. Thanks again guys.

11-17-2006, 06:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Got any idea when that long ago post/thread was, Bill? I'm a little leary of fumes in my garage, also, and would like to see what you all discussed without starting up the whole discussion again.

Fred

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Fred. I found the post by using the search button. However, to summerize, I went to the local electrical supply house and bought a Nutone through-the-wall vent fan, the type often used in kitchens or bathrooms. I think I had to cut a round hole in the outside wall of my garage about 8" or so. I took off of a nearby electric box and ran some exposed conduit pipe to house the wires. I used an Intermatic C8865 timer (in it's own housing) to control the fan. I have it set to run for 10 minutes every hour, with an on/off switch for when I have the garage open and don't want the fan running. We went round and round on the forum about the safety of such a device and concluded that there is no safety issue. The fan works wonderfully to remove all the nasty smelling odors that my wife had complained about for so long.



Bill

TRMark
11-17-2006, 10:58 AM
I managed this trick when assembling my carbs. Finally figured out why the choke cable would not pull out properly and why the car would not start easily when cold. I installed the linkage incorrectly.

https://static.flickr.com/105/299450790_72fd29ffa0.jpg

Corrected
https://static.flickr.com/99/299450791_69a56872dc.jpg

Harry_Ward
11-17-2006, 11:28 AM
Mark,

Nice closeup which made me think this choke question seems to come up alot about choke position. Anyone have a good photo showing the relative position of the jet assy's with the choke on and off? Sometimes I'm not sure if anyone understands the term up against the mixture adjusting nut or not. Of course it would have to be non-copywrited so anyone could post it.

martx-5
11-17-2006, 05:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Mark,

Nice closeup which made me think this choke question seems to come up alot about choke position. Anyone have a good photo showing the relative position of the jet assy's with the choke on and off? Sometimes I'm not sure if anyone understands the term up against the mixture adjusting nut or not. Of course it would have to be non-copywrited so anyone could post it.

[/ QUOTE ]

In response to this query, I just got done rebuilding the carbs for my TR3, and took some pictures of the choke in the UP position, and the activated DOWN position.

I'm not that savvy with posting pics, so I'll do it in two posts. This first one will be with the jet in it's uppermost (choke off) position up against the adjusting nut...

See Attachment

martx-5
11-17-2006, 05:45 PM
OK, here is the second pic with the choke activated...

See Attachment...

habaneronut
11-17-2006, 05:57 PM
Thanks, Bill. I've got the same problem - a complaining wife, plus the hot water heater and furnace both out there even though they are off the garage floor by about 24 inches and inclosed per local code. This may just work for me too.

Fred

Harry_Ward
11-17-2006, 08:55 PM
Art,

Perfecto, That's just what I was looking for - Thanks!

TNTriumph
11-18-2006, 02:12 PM
I am going to work on it over Thanksgiving break. I will try and take pictures and post them. I appericate all of the help guys.