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Tinster
10-18-2006, 03:48 PM
It was suggested I start a new thread on this topic.

The Crypt Car pretty much blew up today.
Not a clue what happened or where to begin
to look for the cause. Since Sunday morning
it would prety much start on demand. Shake,
rattle and roll with no low end idle but it
would start and remain running. 10 minutes
this morning.

Jeff Paltech has been e-mailing my tuning tips
for his refurbished carbs. I had gotten the idle
down to between 900 and 1,200 on a warm engine
but it would not hold constant.

After lunch, I had just started it in full choke
and it was at very high idle around 2,000 rpm.
I revved it a bit to see if the idle would drop any.
The engine suddenly quit almost like a knife cut it
out of the car. Now it will not even sputter. Just
grinds away with that awful sound of "you know it ain't
gonna kick over."

Since there is just one of me I can't even pull a
plug wire check to see it any spark is present while
I crank it. All electrical components are brand new.
Zero -0- miles driven on them. Electronic ignition
is from the PO. Everything else mine.

Any suggestions appreciated.

dale

Dave Russell
10-18-2006, 03:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The Crypt Car pretty much blew up today.
Not a clue what happened or where to begin
to look for the cause.
dale

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Dale,
You had me scared for a moment. To me, "blew up" means that a crankshaft, connecting rod, or piston broke & came out through the side of the block. Glad it isn't really "that" serious. I'm sure that you will get it going soon.
Regards,
D

dklawson
10-18-2006, 03:54 PM
That's awful! Hang in there and remember that it's only fuel, air, spark, and timing.

If the carbs weren't recently gone through, and if the car had been running until this event... I'd tell you to focus on an ignition fault as sudden, total death without warning tends to be electrical. However, you've got a lot of new parts to sort through. Take it one system at a time. Make sure you've got spark and that the static timing is close. Once you've got that, move on to the fuel system.

Walking away for a bit of fresh air might be in order for a while but hang in there, it will get better.

Harry_Ward
10-18-2006, 04:04 PM
Dale,

Read your other post. Please don't hold the plug or the wire while trying to see if it sparks. Just lay it down on the block somewhere where the thing will ground and do no damage to the car or you. Sometimes you can hear the spark snapping away while cranking it over. Of course if you like the feeling one gets when electricity runs through your body by all means hold on to it. An even better trick is to ask someone you don't like to hold the plug. They will let you know pretty quick if it's sparking or not.

jerrybny
10-18-2006, 04:09 PM
Like DK said remember that it's only fuel, air, spark, and timing. You can always try clamping a metal rod to ground nd somewhere and prop up the spark plug wire close to it and watch it as you crank to see if the spark jumps to the ground. Crude but sometimes thats what it takes when your working along unless you buy a remote starter. You could always ask your wife to crank it over as you are at the engine. Hang in there!!!

martx-5
10-18-2006, 04:49 PM
This definitly sounds like it's ignition related. Possibly a wire came loose from the harness that was just put in. See if you have voltage to the coil with the key on would be the first place to check. If you don't, then backtrack towards the ignition switch. If you do, see if you have dwell on the points when you crank it over. If the dwell is good, the look at the secondary part of the ignition system...rotor, cap (especially that carbon piece in the middle) and coil wire. I doubt all of the spark plug wires went bad at one shot.

Keep us informed.

Art

10-18-2006, 04:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Crypt Car pretty much blew up today.
Not a clue what happened or where to begin
to look for the cause.
dale

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Dale,
You had me scared for a moment. To me, "blew up" means that a crankshaft, connecting rod, or piston broke & came out through the side of the block. Glad it isn't really "that" serious. I'm sure that you will get it going soon.
Regards,
D

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. Man, I read your opener and almost had a heart attack! Don't scare me like that again. I would be willing to bet that one of the gearheads on the Forum has been hankering for a Caribbean holiday....



Bill

Aldwyn
10-18-2006, 06:29 PM
I'm sure you'll track it down quickly, Dale! At as others said, at least it didnt REALLY blow up! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Agreed, though... sounds like something just shook loose!

Geo Hahn
10-18-2006, 06:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
...An even better trick is to ask someone you don't like to hold the plug. They will let you know pretty quick if it's sparking or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Such as kid brothers or mothers-in-law? Personally, I always carry one of these:

https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4424

TR3s & 4s have a built-in remote starter button but if I had a TR6 I would certainly carry one of those too.

Harry_Ward
10-18-2006, 07:03 PM
Neat gadget and I never really did that to anyone. Well... maybe with a pull start lawn mower but it was just one rev. of the piston and only to teach the new employees what not to grab... Honest!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif

Brosky
10-18-2006, 07:15 PM
Dale, you need to review all of the wiring going to the ignition. Leave nothing to chance from DPO. If you need help with the ignition contact Jeff at Advanced. I told him that you may need a plate like mine with points & cond all set up and he said he could help out.

I'm sure that he will help you diagnose the electronic via phone as well.

If you are not sure about the current ignition (and why would you be?), I would be happy to send my backup point setup to you if Jeff can't get one fast enough for you.

TR674
10-19-2006, 01:08 AM
Dale
when I read your subject heading I almost cancelled my holiday to your sunny beaches. Whew, that was close. I wonder if the electronic ignition is faulty, since that's the only thing untouched by your hands?
Regards
Craig

TR674
10-19-2006, 01:49 AM
Dale
the same thing happened to me a few months ago. I was reversing out the drive when the motor just stopped. It was like I turned off the ignition switch. I cranked but no spark. I 'twiddled' the fuses in their holders and behold, it sparked. There was a little surface rust on the ends of the 30A ignition fuse. Try cleaning yours if you haven't already.
Regards
Craig

10-19-2006, 05:54 AM
Thinking about it....electronic ignition....lotsa new wires....ignition switch on for long periods....your module is cooked! Go back to points and condensor, Dale, and I will be willing to bet she will fire up. Now what about those babes on the beach, tell us more. Any pictures?

Like the old Cajun joke, woman advertises in local paper under dating services: Female, age 33, single, fun loving, has own boat.
First reply: Send picture of boat....


Bill

10-19-2006, 06:25 AM
Folks,

What Dale meant about the "Crypt Car blew up today" was it literally did blow up in Dale's Mind Eye-- 'Cause Wendy has a Hammer Ready & Willing hidden in the Garden /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif ... and She is NOT Afraid to USE It ;-) This Project is definitely a Nightmare on Dale's Street...

Dale, It's Time for a Jack Lalanne Electrical Session!!!

https://www.jacklalanne.com/fingertip2.jpg

o Are there any Glowing Fuses on the Panel?
o Is the Cutout Switch grounding BW Wire?
o Is the Green Fuse Block Hot with the Key On?
o With Fire Truck Ready, Have you Sprayed the Carbs again?

If All is Working proceed on to TR6BILL's Diagnostics.

Cheers!
M

Tinster
10-19-2006, 06:37 AM
Mike-
Brand new fuses all functioning. no lights
Cut off switch where you left it
I will check on hot fuse box or not
Not going to spray gas anymore
Bill probably correct since every frigging
electical piece is new except the DPO's electronic
black box ignition.

Of course, the Crypt Car had to drop dead while Wendy
was watching. The Crypt Car got "The Look" while a
reminder to Dale the tow charge to the local car crusher
is only $75.

d

Tinster
10-19-2006, 06:42 AM
Martx: Thanks but I am totally ignorant
about electricity. I do not know how to use
the electrical test device boxes I have purchased.

For example:
1. What is dwell?
2.How can I check if electricity is going to the coil?
with only layman skills?
2.How can I check if electricity is leaving the coil?
with only layman skills?

10-19-2006, 06:57 AM
Dale,

Remember the Continuity testor we played with? --- Use it! Attach Black clip to Body & place Sharp point on Positive Things ;-)

See if you have power to Coil (big yeller)
If No power, Work backwards: Ign box, Green Fuse Block, etc.

https://www.heritage.nf.ca/law/images/whipping_post_550.jpg
Accomplish Mission today or Receive 40 Lashes B4 Lunch!

Cheers!
M

10-19-2006, 07:04 AM
https://www3.telus.net/textures/images/brando_apoc.jpg

Colonel Kurtz
I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream. That's my nightmare. Crawling, swiftly, along the edge of a straight... razor... and surviving ....

The Crypt Car: Who's Nightmare is It, Dale's or Wendy's?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nopity.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/pukeface.gif

PS: I Wisked Off a telepathic Email to Merlin in TN... Merlin maybe Wake Up around 9:30am and Brew Up some Smoke Signals for Us to See ;-)

Tinster
10-19-2006, 07:24 AM
Thxs Mike- I thought the little guy was for
checking out small light bulbs and gauges, etc.

Do I use the light bulb tetser with ingnition key turned on or off?

d

PS: Give me a holler later today. An easy day today for
me- no meetings, no travel, no clients stuff- nice and
enjoyable day of design projects.... at my own pace for
a change.

I had planned to try and drive the Crypt Car around the
block today but................in Spanish "El cabron no
esta corriendo hoy!"

d

10-19-2006, 07:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Thxs Mike- I thought the little guy was for
checking out small light bulbs and gauges, etc.

Do I use the light bulb tetser with ingnition key turned on or off?

d

PS: Give me a holler later today. An easy day today for
me- no meetings, no travel, no clients stuff- nice and
enjoyable day of design projects.... at my own pace for
a change.

I had planned to try and drive the Crypt Car around the
block today but................in Spanish "El cabron no
esta corriendo hoy!"

d

[/ QUOTE ]
Ignition Key On... but remember not to Leave in this Position without Engine Running for no more than a few minutes.

Hey, I'll Ride too... U might need some Pushing Power to the next Phone Booth ;-)

Hehehheheheee,
M

PS: Just remember Folks... We have Come a Long Way from Here,

https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/bramafear/Mcce/MastersBoxes2.jpg
(Powerblock in Box)

But then Again, Maybe Dale should have Listen to Janis Joplin and Bought a Mercedes Beinz Instead /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif

10-19-2006, 08:02 AM
See Dale Here ----> https://daleride.blogspot.com ! Be Sure & Click on the Clip /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/savewave.gif

bobh
10-19-2006, 08:35 AM
Dale,
Try a new rotor. The rotor may have cracked while it was running. A cracked rotor will kill the engine instantly. The cracks can be very small and hard to see without good light and magnification.

Tinster
10-19-2006, 09:05 AM
Bob, I cleaned the rotor and no change in dead status.
I'll look at under a lens for cracks.

Mike- I put a very long screwdiver into a pulled
plug wire. I got it near enough to the valve cover stud to
see it when I stand in the car, lean over the front window
and crank the key. No spark arc.

With no electric in system at all:

I connected the light gizzmo to the neg side of the coil- it lit up.

I conected the light gizzmo to the pos side of the coil nothing- no light.

I stuck the light gizzmo down inside the coil hole-no light.

I stuck the light gizzmo inside a pulled spark plug wire- no light.

With battery hooked up:

I connected the light gizzmo to the neg side of the coil- it lit up.

I conected the light gizzmo to the pos side of the coil- the
ground wire end piece started to smoke, thru a spark into a
piece of steel wool, a blazing inferno began inside the Crypt Car engine compartment.

I threw the very fast burning steel wool onto the garage
floor where it set fire to a few rags and filled the
garage with a stenchful smoke.

While rushing to grab the fire extinguisher, I tripped
over the PO's Christmas box of broken parts I'm going to send him and cut my friggin' arm.

Crypt Car is dead for today.
Wendy is going to visit her buddy at the car
crusher later this morning.

Looking mighty grim for the Crypt car. I might be
able to convince Wendy to let me take it apart and
sell pieces on E-Bay.

d

danmas
10-19-2006, 11:34 AM
Dale,

This really has me puzzled! With "no electric in the system at all" you shouldn't get the light gizmo to light up at all, no matter where you place it. With the battery hooked up, there is no place you should be able to put the light gizmo to cause the ground lead to get hot.

With the battery in the car, both leads - positive and negative - connected and the key on, your light gizmo should light up when the tip is placed on the positive terminal of the coil, and the clip end of the gizmo connected to a good ground point on the car, preferably the negative lead of the battery.

If this happens, then your electrical system is in good shape, and your problem is in the ignition system - coil, distributor, or the electronic ignition module.

I would suggest removing the electronic ignition module and replacing the points. Set the timing on the points and the point gap according to the instrucions in the shop manual and try to start the engine again.

You've come to far to give up now. There is nothing seriously wrong with your car, and I see no reason why it shouldn't be on the road soon.

Adrio
10-19-2006, 01:21 PM
I know a lot of people swear by the electronic ignition but I (despite the fact that I am an EE specializing in electronics) like my points. They may not give me that extra fractional HP but I can tinker with them and see if they are working without resorting to my electronic test equipment (which I tend not to keep in the LBC boot).

All that to say I agree with danmas when he says put the points back in and go from there. even if you never played with points you will learn it in a matter of minutes and have it figured out in no time flat. Remember electricity is not mysterious it is just shocking.

jayhawk
10-19-2006, 01:32 PM
Hey Dale
Looks to me you're on that hate side of the love/hate relationship that we often go thru during the reincarnation of a "mostly dead" but attractive LBC. It's time to give it (and you) a little space and let things cool. Although I've not had overt fire, I've had plenty of sparks, smoke, and clunks. I've also been towed, pushed and teased my share of times. I've also received that special "look" by wifee when stranded in a suspect area at in the middle of the night.
Hang in there. Read a little, think a little and then go back when you're ready. I know I've got a few more glitches to come, but since all the fixes during 2+ years, I've had 4 mos of relative bliss!

Pete

Tinster
10-19-2006, 02:33 PM
Thanks All.
Dan: The light gizzmo is fried.
But I rigged up a 3w bulb and connected
neg battery to pos coil post. The light lights
very brightly. So I guess that says ignition
problem?

I looked inside the distributor head this afternoon
to determine if I think I could install points, etc.
I believe that installing and setting this electronic
assembly is considerably beyond my knowledge level.
(Can I purchase points, etc at Western Auto or are they special to TRs?)

But I can see where the wires from the electronic
ignition box connect inside and also the other set
to the posts on the coil.

Is an electonic ignition box a "plug and play" device
or does it require settings and adjustments? Maybe I
could simply swap out the PO's box and wires for new?

I forgot totally about the distributor belonging to
the PO. Should i go ahead and order a replacement unit?

thanks,

d

Brosky
10-19-2006, 05:25 PM
Dale, send it to Jeff at Advanced and have him diagnose it as it is, then set it with points for you. Or call him to arrange a swap out using yours as a core.

End this DPO electrical fiasco once and for all.

Tinster
10-19-2006, 06:12 PM
Paul Thanks,

Who is Jeff at Advanced?

I was thinking about calling the TRF and ordering a new
distributor with the points setup components and also the
Petronix electronic set up as back-up, just in case.

Maybe I could have TRF deliver the pieces to someone in the
States who could assemble them for me (for $$) and get them to the status of "bolt on an start the engine"?

On the other hand, I visited the car crusher this afternoon
with Wendy. She is so ticked off she can't stand it. I am
almost at the point of taking the car apart and selling the pieces on E-Bay. Very discourged after getting so close to operational, street legal status.

One step forward, three steps backwards, and every month
another few $$ thousand spent fixing more newly discovered
damage hidden by the PO.

I'm really in the dumps tonight.

d

brdave
10-19-2006, 06:26 PM
Are there not any mechanics at all on the island. Considering all of the time and frustration you are experiencing, it would serve you well to hire a mechanic to finish the car and get it set up and running well. It is a very basic automobile which does not require high tech ability at all. You have already done all the grunt work, have someone with some experience tweak things while you and the wife have a time out. FWIW

Dave

JeffS
10-19-2006, 08:09 PM
Tinster, Sorry I missed this thread for so long! I can definitely fix your distributor for you. I can either install points/condenser or see what's happening with your electronic setup. I could also just send you a good rebuilt distributor to throw in. Get a hold of me if you're interested.
www.advanceddistributors.com (https://www.advanceddistributors.com)
jeff@advanceddistributors.com

JeffS
10-19-2006, 08:13 PM
I should have mentioned that I agree with everyone that it sounds like you're suffering from an ignition failure. Make sure that the inside of your distributor cap is clean and dry, and the terminals are clean. You may be in need of new plug wires as well? I'd be glad to sort through it for you though!
Best wishes,
Jeff

Brosky
10-19-2006, 08:14 PM
Dale, I posted this link a while back for you in one of the many threads about this project. You won't be sorry if you go this route, either with points or electronic and you know it will be setup for many, many miles of smiles!

https://www.74tr6.com/distributor.htm

Good luck,

Tinster
10-20-2006, 05:17 AM
Thanks Jeff, Thanks Paul,

As everyone here is aware, I truly
know nothing about auto electronics.
I can fix just about every other TR component,
just not electronics.

Jeff, I will get out the Blue Book today and pull
out the old distributor. I will priority mail it to
you for your stockpile.

I will contact you later today and order whatever
you think is best for the Crypt car.

Again,

Many, many thanks to all.
After a decent night's sleep, I am once again
back to the challenge of fixing the PO's screw ups.

dale

10-20-2006, 06:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Dan: The light gizmo is fried.
But I rigged up a 3w bulb and connected
neg battery to pos coil post. The light lights
very brightly. So I guess that says ignition
problem?


[/ QUOTE ]
Dale, that is a Good Sign... 12ga White Panel Power is Good.

According to Dad, there is only 12.x Volts available at all times-- anywhere from the Car UNTIL you Turn the Motor Over.

Can you retrace your Steps Before, During, & After the Sparking Incident more clearly? Did this incident occur when you Probed the Center Coil socket? This raises some Concerns based upon only having 12.x Volts with the Motor NOT Turning... Are you Sure you Wasn't just Playing 'Pocket Pool' during that Moment ;-)

I find it very hard for you to be under the Bonnet and being able to Reach the Ignition Switch on the Dash and Rotate the Motor ;-)

Guess What? I got Mail from PR!

Lovely Rita, Metermaid sent me some investment property info in response to a email I sent earlier Thanking the Fine Folks of Villa Cofresi (https://www.villacofresi.com/facilities.htm) for Such a Wonderful, Unique Time we Had there.

https://www.villacofresi.com/images/F-BeachTerrace_small.jpg https://www.villacofresi.com/images/BeachN_small.jpg

Everybody... We Highly Recommend this Place for something Different in your Travel Dreams ;-) Cool thing is you can Fly from Orlando directly to Old Ramey AFB just North of Rincon for PEANUTS! Rental Cars from Hertz, etc are available too.

Airlines (https://www.cheapflights.com/flights/Aguadilia/Atlanta-Intl/)

Cheers!
M
PS: There is a Red TR6 on this Side of the Island too--
Dale says he knows of Him /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

10-20-2006, 06:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]

Many, many thanks to all.
After a decent night's sleep, I am once again
back to the challenge of fixing the PO's screw ups.

dale

[/ QUOTE ]

I have Seen It for Myself Folks...

https://tingilinde.typepad.com/starstuff/images/sherman0322.jpg

This is Dale around 4:30am in the Morning Looking for the Coffee /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thirsty.gif

https://www.waffs.org.au/admin/photos/me%20n%20the%20new%20ferret.jpg

Nice Pic of Wendy & Dale /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif

Tinster
10-20-2006, 07:34 AM
BRDAVE:

Nope, there ain't none here on the island.
I have found only two mechanics willing to do
any work on my TR6 at all. Neither makes house
calls. I must drive the TR to their shops and
deliver the repair parts to install. I must also
supply the Bentley Blue Book for reference.
No warranty given on their work, either.

Neither knows anything about auto electrical systems.

Needless to say, I have performed the majority of the
restoration work in my garage but I am limited by having
zero knowledge or understanding of things electric.

For example: I call the local power company and request
they shut down the entire power grid in my neighborhood
when I have to change out a ceiling fan. Even then,
something usually blows up when I throw the wall switch
after the install!!

Ah life in the tropic!
dale

Ricardo_6
10-27-2006, 11:09 AM
Where are you located in Puerto Rico

10-27-2006, 11:22 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Where are you located in Puerto Rico

[/ QUOTE ]
Dale lives in Bayamon ;-)