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tony barnhill
09-12-2006, 10:14 PM
A friend gave me his old fuel cell he was going to use in his HSR MGB GT but never did....its square and about 11" deep - I took the pop rivets out of the aluminum skin & separated the aluminum skin to find a black "plastic" cell inside (but haven't removes the circle of nuts holding the filler to the cell...no brand name anywhere...appears the aluminum case was made & put around the rigid "plastic" cell....cell has big red twist cap centered on top...2 blue AN connectors - 1 is pickup, the other is check valve...they're not in the center section that holds the cap but are out at the corners of the top.

But, there's no foam inside it! How hard is that to install?

& I've got to go get enough AN hose to run to front of car...but, what type fuel pump should I mount (& where: under car, in GT area next to cell, up front)?

& I have a pressure regulator but its not AN - its the same size as the OE fuel line....how to adapt it & then adapt the AN hose to fit regular hose at carbs?

I'm out of my league here having never messed with fuel cells before...

Bugeye58
09-13-2006, 04:07 AM
Tony. installing the foam is easy. Just take off the fill plate, and install through there.
I would suggest running 3/8" or 1/2" metal line from the cell area to the front of the car. You can cut the line and reflare it after installing the proper "B" nuts and sleeves for a whole bunch cheaper than running 8 feet of AN hose will be.
I run my fuel pumps next to the cell. I only use hose to connect the pumps to the cell, and then down to a bulkhead fitting through the floor. Line from there forward to another fitting, and then line to the regulator. Most regulators are threaded for pipe threads, so pipe to AN adapters work there. If you use a 1/8" to #4 AN nipple, you can very carefully remove the standard inlet fitting, redrill the hole, and rethread the fuel inlet on the carb to 1/8" pipe, and go to #4 AN hose between the reg. and the carbs. An alternative to doing that is to use the Aeroquip AQP braided stainless hose, and connect to the stock carb inlet fitting with a standard hose clamp. You will get enough compression of the hose to seal.
Jeff

tony barnhill
09-13-2006, 09:48 AM
Thanks, Jeff...so, is the stock MGB hard fuel line adequate?

& where do I get the foam?

tony barnhill
09-13-2006, 11:18 AM
Got it figured out!!

Went to local speed shop w/fuel cell - they had the foam (4 squares)...had the fittings to mate up to existing hard lines & Facet electric fuel pump.

WhatsThatNoise
09-13-2006, 04:34 PM
Most organizations follow the SCCA GCR....

The cell must be placed within 12" of the standard tank.
(No restriction on capacity or dimensions)
Within 6" of the ground.
Minimum of .036 steel box around cell.
Must be a metal bulkhead between driver & cell.
Vent line must exit vehicle.

(Elevate vent line well above tank and loop down to avoid tank surge induced fuel dumping [the check valve will not stop this])

IT cars in SCCA along with VSCCA don't require fuel cells, but if you have one they have to be in compliance.

(Yes a 71 Pinto does not have to have a fuel cell in improved touring, but if it does.....It can't have a Monza cap or the car is considered unsafe) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

There are exceptions to most of these rules.
Rules are either stringently enforced w/o any apparent regard for common sense. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Or they are ignored altogether /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Advice....Bring cookies for the tech guys /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif

Bugeye58
09-13-2006, 05:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Advice....Bring cookies for the tech guys /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

C'mon, Dave. I'm a "Tech Guy", and the most popular medium of exchange is imported beer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Jeff /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

WhatsThatNoise
09-13-2006, 05:36 PM
Sure....I bring Guinness & spend all Friday evening driving around looking for something obscure like Flag Porter.

Or I bring Flag Porter & get a log book entry......

"OK to race"....."Next time beer temp must be corrected" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

"Tis easier for a Pinto to pass through the eye of a rod end bearing than to be admitted to the false grid." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angel.gif

tony barnhill
09-13-2006, 07:34 PM
Well, got new foam in the cell - it was very clean inside - got new AN fittings that will fit to a stock fuel hose to/from the fuel pump...hole cut in floor or GT to off-side of hatch area...took check valve out, cleaned & inspected...reinstalled...good to know about wenting it outside car with a loop....it hangs down below the GT floor area 5" & is more than 6" from ground.

Friday, I'll start cutting/bending metal to encase it separate from the driver's area.

WhatsThatNoise
09-13-2006, 07:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Good to know about venting it outside car with a loop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Got meatballed at Mid-Ohio for dumping early this year.

All cause I changed my check valve from an old PCV valve to a "purpose built" one.

(Required by a tech chick we nicknamed "Little-Dog-too")

tony barnhill
09-13-2006, 08:18 PM
So, I'll get an AN 90-degree fitting that adapts to a smaller gas line, run that line from the check valve (looped higher that fuel cell - but that's gonna be hard to do staying inside the enclosure I'm gonna build to separate the cell from me) & drill a hile through the rear of the body to stick the overflow hose out?

Notice the "?"....

WhatsThatNoise
09-13-2006, 08:29 PM
Can it go high up THROUGH the enclosure and then back down......

It has to vent to the outside & doesn't have to be inside the box at that point.

tony barnhill
09-13-2006, 08:54 PM
Yep, I can take it up & back down & exit from the enclosure out the rear of the car.

MGB12
09-14-2006, 09:01 AM
Three suggestions:
1. Box the opening in the trunk with either 1" thin wall square tubing or angle.
2. Install 2 straps (1/8" x 1" steel) under the fuel cell that attach to the boxing mentioned above.
3. Have two straps (1/8" x 1" steel) over the top of the cell. You can use spacers to attach these to the boxing.

I have seen fuel cells depart cars. Saw a Midget once going down the front straight at Texas World Speedway dragging the fuel cell held only by the AN lines!

The sheet metal of the B will fracture and fail under the weight and vibration of the cell. If you bolt in the boxing, place the bolts on 6" centers + or -.

JerryB
09-14-2006, 03:54 PM
Tony.......

Checklist and suggestions.

"""to find a black "plastic" cell inside """"

sounds like a roto-molded "JAZ" type fuel tank. First thing is to give it a leak test. you have not mentioned what your gonna do with that car but if it's something that requires certs such as FIA FT-3 or 5 you might be out in left field.

."""""""...cell has big red twist cap centered on top...""""

prolly about 4" dia with a bail handle? Check the gasket as these are prone to leakage. it might have a vent in the cap also which you might block off (again depending on use and rules).

The 6" deal is so in case of a flat or a hit someting will not allow the tank bottom to scrape along the ground.... its 6" minimum ground clearance.

And yes as noted in an above post....structurally sound mounting.

Suggestion....if this is a real budget deal and no rules then proceed...if not then fill it and give it the flotation test.

tony barnhill
09-14-2006, 08:24 PM
I've checked it - no leaks...yep, about 4" w/bail handle - no vent in the cap.

I like the idea of the straps under/over it & tubing supporting floor...tomorrow, fitting/mounting it is my project - along with fuel pump/lines.

Again, though, can I just vent it out the rear of the car?

MGB12
09-15-2006, 03:44 PM
Yes, but I vent mine under the car by running the vent tube though a hole in the floor of the trunk and extending the tube to below the rear valance.

If you decide to vent out the back, use a bulkhead fitting and place a cap on the fitting when the car is not running to avoid H2O in the fuel. Make sure you take it off when you go out on track.

WhatsThatNoise
09-15-2006, 05:54 PM
Here is my setup....
The flex line turns to hard line at the top.
(The thing hanging down is a zip tie)
(The other tube from the front is an extinguisher nozzle)
https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/dlg208/fuelcell002.jpg

tony barnhill
09-15-2006, 08:50 PM
Can you enlarge that photo, please.....

WhatsThatNoise
09-16-2006, 05:32 AM
Woops.....Thought when I hosted it on photobucket that I hit the 50% thingie.

I'll try it again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hap Waldrop
09-16-2006, 08:36 AM
Tony, here's a picture of the Huffaker MGB we restored.

www.acmespeedshop.com/_images/huffbfcellds.JPG (https://www.acmespeedshop.com/_images/huffbfcellds.JPG)

Michael Oritt
09-16-2006, 03:29 PM
That sure is nice work. What kind of fuel pumps are shown? Are those check valves in the lines between the cell and the pumps?

tony barnhill
09-16-2006, 06:40 PM
Thanks for the photo enlarge...while mine's a GT, I can still run the vent line like that....don't have the bulkhead for mounting fuel pumps

Hap, will I really need 2 pumps?

Michael Oritt
09-16-2006, 07:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
will I really need 2 pumps?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if the first one breaks.

Best--Michael

WhatsThatNoise
09-17-2006, 04:30 AM
Hap...Somebody sure is runnin a perdy racecar....

(Good thing I'm not W-W with that thing)

Last race I was going around 12 at Mid-O & heard BANG!...

<CRAP> I thought.....Who's that idgit trying ta git around me now.

It was just some guy in a V-Dub....He did get past but I didn't give him any room.

I may never be vintage material.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonod.gif

Hap Waldrop
09-17-2006, 10:53 AM
Tony, no you don't need two pumps,alot of guys run two separate pumps on two different switches, these two Carter fuel pumps run together, it was restored back exactly how Huffaker had it, not exactly what I would do with a clean sheet of paper, but original to the cars and it works fine. The two in line pieces coming from the pumps are screen filters, the one in line on the vent is a chack valve. On my Spridgets I normally use a Holley blue pump with thier regulator and inline screen filter between the cell and the pump.

Tony if you don't have the bulkhead, then you will have to create and fab a structure/bracket to mount the pumps off of, Tony, we really need to get you to the race track, so you can look at some other cars /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Every year when I return from the SCCA runoffs I useally have the camera memory card maxed out with pictures and hardly any full car pics or racing pics but useally detailed pictures of different fabrications that people have done to thier race cars, so I have fuel for the creative noodle when I need it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

tony barnhill
09-17-2006, 01:48 PM
I need to et out, Hap...I'm gonna get through the GRM & then pull the drivetrain, etc to really make an HSR car...gotta get with John Prather to crew for him!

Hap Waldrop
09-18-2006, 07:47 AM
We do them that nice for SCCA as well. Where do you race your Pinto, in the MARRS GTP series?

tony barnhill
09-18-2006, 02:13 PM
Installed a piece of 1/16"steel over trunk floor - cut through both & mounted 2 straps under where the cell goes - installed the cell & bolted it down so it sits on lip of floor/steel & straps...now I've gotta build the surrounding enclosure...good reason to go to Harbor Freight to buy a metal brake!

MGB12
09-18-2006, 04:26 PM
Hap,
Does Eddie's B still have the bottom of the stock fuel in it? I know some if not all of the Huffaker Bs did.

Glen

WhatsThatNoise
09-18-2006, 07:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
We do them that nice for SCCA as well. Where do you race your Pinto, in the MARRS GTP series?

[/ QUOTE ]
So far Nelson Ledges, Mid-Ohio, Watkin's Glen & BeaveRun.

We run ITB although we're thinking about going SRF sometime in the future.

Vintage racing looks like a great deal of fun except for the LONG tows......

We get to race more by staying in the SCCA.

(I think vintage entry fees are higher also)

JerryB
09-19-2006, 01:15 PM
Again, though, can I just vent it out the rear of the car?

Yes but not right in front of a rear tire..(:<)

There should be a check-valve in the vent line (or deck fitting) so air can come in and displace used gas but gas can't run out the vent line. Run vent line as high as possible then down and rearward.

You still havent mentioned what your going to use the car for.......??

In any kind of timed event or where you wear a helmet you really owe it to yourself to get an ATL or Fuel Safe FIA-FT3 or better rated unit....even tho the rules might not require it.

tony barnhill
09-19-2006, 07:26 PM
Yep, check valve is there.

Right now its a GRM Challenge car.

Hap Waldrop
09-23-2006, 09:45 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Hap,
Does Eddie's B still have the bottom of the stock fuel in it? I know some if not all of the Huffaker Bs did.

Glen

[/ QUOTE ]

Glen, never did as far as I know, since this was the last of the single hoop cars built, and Jim Lerch's first big project within the Huffaker's shop, I think a few items were different than the Mueller and Visger cars, one big difference was it had rear tube shocks for example.