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View Full Version : Proof that Water Wetter Works



Tomster
08-23-2006, 01:50 PM
Does anyone have independant, unbiased, hard proof that water wetter weally works? (sory about that, felt like elmer fudd for a second there)

kodanja
08-23-2006, 02:01 PM
I got no proof, but I still keep pouring it in everytime I change the coolant!

(You Wasklly Wabbit!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/england.gif

JamesWilson
08-23-2006, 02:16 PM
Here's an evaluation:

https://www.racerpartswholesale.com/redtech3.htm

They sell the stuff, so take that for what its worth....

I've also found a site for water-cooled computers (sounds nuts to me!) that thought well of it:

https://www.wc101.com/reviews/Additives/

kodanja
08-23-2006, 02:44 PM
looks great on paper! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif

bobh
08-23-2006, 03:31 PM
I added it to the TR on the trip back from Seattle. It didn't make any difference in the reading on the gauge. However the gauge was reading high because the voltage stabilizer was not grounded.
It's interesting they call it water wetter. You may recall from chemistry class that soap makes water wetter. I wonder if it is a non foaming soap?
Years ago our baseball league was trying to find a way to get the infields to dry more quickly after a rain storm. Someone tried to sell them something that was put down using a regular fertilizer spreader. I suggested using some type of soap. They looked at me like I was insane and asked why. I said because it makes water wetter, which should help it to seep into the ground sooner. They said that was exactly what the salesman said his product did.

jerrybny
08-23-2006, 03:57 PM
Same here.

swift6
08-23-2006, 04:15 PM
Its basically what they call a 'surfactant'. Breaks the surface tension of the water and allows it to transfer more heat. Soap does the same thing so Water Wetter is essentially a soap without the stuff that really makes it a soap (foaming agents and detergents).

John_Mc
08-23-2006, 04:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You may recall from chemistry class that soap makes water wetter.

[/ QUOTE ]

We were supposed to remember stuff from Chemistry class??

philman
08-23-2006, 06:41 PM
i've heard of using fabric softener in a pinch to help keep coolant temperature down.

Paulus
08-23-2006, 07:23 PM
if it's all about the surface tension of the water then the liquid that is added to your dishwashers to eliminate water spots on drying should do the same job.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/england.gifpaulus /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/england.gif

Tinster
08-23-2006, 07:36 PM
John Mc!

Wow indeed. You were able to go to school?
Consider yourself fortunate. Alas, we were poor
folks in Appalacha and I got hired out to the coal
tipples at age five. $ 60 cents a day for 14 hours
they paid my maw amd paw for my labors. Had to walk
17 miles to the mine.

Ten years old before I got my first pair shoes; married
with 2 kids by age 13, grandpaw by age 25. Hired on at
the Double "D" dinner as a shortorder cook at age 38 and
learnt myself to read purdy good.

Edujewcayshin is a guud thing.

t

08-23-2006, 07:54 PM
Dale, have you been drinking lever shock fluid?




Bill

swift6
08-23-2006, 08:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Dale, have you been drinking lever shock fluid? Bill

[/ QUOTE ]


Or Water Wetter? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif

Banjo
08-23-2006, 08:58 PM
This is all on the assumption that you are running pure water in your cooling system. I believe that Coolant does all the same stuff that water wetter (or any other subistute therof) would do, and then some.
I hold that your best bet is a good flush, fresh thermostat and a 50/50 mix of coolant and water

vettedog72
08-23-2006, 09:19 PM
I just don't get it; the water/coolant with water wetter added is pulling off or absorbing more heat but the chart shows the water is cooler. It must be new math.

Alan_Myers
08-24-2006, 04:57 AM
An interesting subject.

I don't use any of Redline's products presently, but they are generally very well respected. Yes, the name "Water Wetter" always struck me as somewhat silly. I always figured it might be worth a try, if the rest of a cooling system were all checked out and known to be in good condition, but could still use a little help. Might be a little extra insurance, too, if off on a long haul cross country or were doing some towing, etc. I have one or two bottles of the stuff around here somewhere, but haven't yet added it to any of my cars' cooling systems. Keep forgettin'!

There are a couple new cooling system additives from DEI that make similar claims (www.summitracing.com is one supplier carrying them). One product is designed for racing, for use only in pure water (anti-freeze isn't allowed by many race sanctioning organizations, which really isn't a big deal since the car's cooling system is drained after each race day or weekend anyway). The other DEI product is designed for street use, with a coolant mix. Their cooling claims looked to be even higher than Redline's, but I haven't seen a detailed tech page on the stuff yet.

As I understand it, straight water is actually better at cooling than water mixed with anti-freeze (glycol). Problem is, straight water is nasty stuff (from the engine's perspective) that, by itself, will cause lots of corrosion in the cooling system, boils more easily and will quickly ruin the bearings in your water pump. Thus, a mix with "anti-freeze" becomes important for other reasons, with some small compromise of cooling effectiveness. I've heard a lot of suggestions to reduce to 25% glycol/75% water to greatly increase heat transfer and still have adequate glycol in the system to handle the other factors. The only real reason to use the traditional 50/50 mix of water and anti-freeze is if the car is parked/stored in really cold temps, something well below freezing. Otherwise, cut back on the glycol and improve coolant mixture effectiveness dramatically.

Note: it also might help to use distilled water instead of tap water, not so much in hopes of improving heat transfer directly, but to reduce calcification and other types of mineral buildups in the engine and rad, which will eventually reduce heat transfer. How much it helps sort of depends upon just how much minerals are in local tap water.

Another idea is to increase the pressure maintained in the cooling system. The Redline page alludes to this in a few places. Triumph figured it out, too. TR3 used a 4 lb. rad cap. TR4 used 7 lb. and TR6 went as high as 12 lb. if I remember correctly. Today some cars use 22 lb. and even higher. Higher pressure raises the boiling point of the coolant mixture and delays or prevents boil-over. The main factor determining how high pressure a Triumph cooling system can handle is the heater core. So, a TR3 (or TR4) without a heater installed can likely run a much higher pressure rad cap safely and really benefit from this. In all likelihood, 12 or even 15 lb. would be safe, were no heater installed. Still, it's nice to have a heater (and defrosters), even if somewhat anemic like the old ones in Triumphs.

Looking at the numbers given on the Redline tech page (referenced above), it appears to claim about 3.5% reduction in temps with a 50/50 mix of water and anti-freeze, and close to 6.5% reduction with straight water. So, if we guess-timate roughly 4.5 to 5% reduction with a 25/75 mix, that's still nothing to sneeze at. For example, that might be the difference between a Triumph running at 185F or 176-178F.

I hope some other folks have some real world tests of Water Wetter to tell us about.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

08-24-2006, 05:15 AM
I have used the stuff before, and at 10 bucks a bottle (appoximating the cost of cheap cologne), I find no real benefit. For one reason or another, I have drained and refilled my cooling system regularly at about 6 month intervals (part of that shipwright's disease) and have ceased using the stuff. Of course, having an aluminum radiator, new heater, oil cooler and dual-controlled 16" Spal fan (sans crank fan - it should be on one of your cars by now) makes my rules of heating/cooling a little different. Even when I was running a completely stock setup I felt that the effects of Water Wetter were wishful thinking.



Bill

kodanja
08-24-2006, 07:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dale, have you been drinking lever shock fluid? Bill

[/ QUOTE ]


Or Water Wetter? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

DRY UP! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/england.gif

Tomster
08-24-2006, 08:49 AM
I think that I'll "stick" with AF and water seems to work fine.
Tinster, You think you had it bad, We also had to walk to and from the pits, Uphill both ways!

bobh
08-24-2006, 09:01 AM
"straight water is nasty stuff "
Another perl from chemistry class. Water is the universal solvent.
Other than a couple of very cute girls and some pranks with flammable gases that's about all I remember from HS chemistry

TR6oldtimer
08-24-2006, 02:29 PM
Water Wetter is the racer's edge and in my opinion will do little if anything to improve engine cooling in non-radicalized TR engines under normal operation. The percentage decreases in coolant temperatures cited by Redline were derived from a three and half hour dyno test on a v8 running at 7200 rpm. (A speed and duration most of us will realize only in our dreams) Water Wetter claims to reduce the effect of steam bubbles created on high temperature spots in the engine that occur under extreme operating conditions. Given steam is an insulator, any product that can reduce steam bubble creation will enhance heat transfer, lowering engine and coolant temperature. The product works by reducing the surface tension of water, which in and of itself will not stop the formation of steam bubbles, but allow the formation of smaller ones. The smaller bubbles collapse faster, thereby allowing more coolant to come into contact with the engine surfaces.

So unless you are running a 250 HP six, as far as I am concerned anti-freeze and water works fine.
TR6 racer (https://www.race-cars.com/carsales/triumph/1102987835/1102987835pp.htm)

Bill
08-28-2006, 07:44 AM
Here in sunny Florida where freezing is never a problem and overheating is always a problem. I run an 80/20 mix of water-AF and water wetter. I also run two electric fans. I figure the 8 bucks is cheap for the little extra it does.