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BOXoROCKS
08-10-2006, 03:34 PM
Well,I wont be needing a car transported from Kansas. Its a scam,he has my $9000.00,and a friend of mine's $16000.00. And according to my sources many many others money also. I really trusted this guy. I have been around for a long time,this guy knew his TRs. My friend is no fool either,knows his stuff, and this guy got him too. The scam ad is on the VTR right now under TR3's for sale. He is C Cooper in Kansas. I am at a loss as what to do. The authorities,sad to say are not to concerned. I have some thoughts,but they are just thoughts right now.

billspit
08-10-2006, 04:06 PM
Bummer. That's why I wouldn't buy a car long distance or from ebay.

If they used the mail to scam you it is considered mail fraud. Maybe the postal service will help. If they used internet, it may be wire fraud. Problem is finding the authority to deal with it.

Hard to be $25,000 worth of fraud doesn't raise an eyebrow!

bobh
08-10-2006, 05:38 PM
Go to Kansas and file charges. Also get a Kansas lawyer and take him to court.

BOXoROCKS
08-10-2006, 06:05 PM
Thats some of the good part,he doesnt live in Kansas,or any of the other 5 places I have tracked down.His address in K is some elderly womans home who has nothing to do with anything. I tracked him thru sources who I cant say. This guy is all over the map,with accts all over the place.He is continusly on the move.His acct that I wired the cash to is now defunked. Court/Schmort. I left him a note on the VTR.

Alan_Myers
08-10-2006, 06:08 PM
Hi,

Sorry to hear about the problems you are having.

A couple things that might help...

First thing, if it were me I would want be to try to be totally certain it's fraud, and not something more innocent. For example, I had an eBay seller fail to ship an item and be unresponsive to email for a couple weeks. Thought for sure I was being ripped off. But it turned out he'd been hospitalized with a heart attack or something and he made right on everything as soon as he was back on his feet. If I'd have filed a complaint, I would have felt pretty bad and might have damaged his business on eBay!

Have you used www.411.com (https://www.411.com) to see what you can find out? You can look up C.T. Cooper's phone and address in Garden City, KS on, if you need them (or simply want to confirm info you already have). Also, you can get the names and phone numbers of immediate neighbors who might be able to give you more info, if you haven't been able to contact him directly. That's about the extent of free info to be found there. You can also purchase various more detailed reports online, checking for criminal records or real estate ownership (public record stuff mostly, in this case it appears his residence is an apartment, however... and it looks like Charles' nickname might be "Cook").

Of course, perhaps you have already done lots of detective work and are pretty certain the seller is defrauding you.

In that case, have you contacted the District Attorney's office in Garden City, Kansas? I would think they'd be the most likely authority to act on any form of fraud occuring in their community, at least initially, and might be able to tell you if there are other cases pending or previous invovling that individual.

Also, have you informed VTR, where the ad is appearing? Have you checked with them to find out if he's a member?

Finally, have you emailed Basil here on BCF, to find out if he's a member here?

Hope you get a good resolution quickly!

Edit: Whoops! Looks like you have already responded to some of these points. Still, I hope you find more info, and perhaps that listed party in Kansas is a relative, or it's a previous residence and the neighbors know something about Charles. Looks like he has a freebie Yahoo! email account, too, which may or may not be of any help. Still, you might try contacting Yahoo! too.

roofman
08-10-2006, 06:25 PM
There are other scammers out there also, I got scammed for about $400 on parts from a guy named Garth P. in New Jersey a year ago or so. Sent him the money for a " perfect" tr6 front bumper and he sent me rusted dented junk. I was stupid enough to send funds western union. I later posted a complaint on the web and got 20-30 emails from others he ripped off.
I just looked and the tr3 from that guy is still on VTR.

JamesWilson
08-10-2006, 06:27 PM
Ouch. I'm sorry you've been had.

At the very least get in touch with VTR and have them stop any further advertizing. While they disclaim responsibility for what's advertized they surely can't like it when their service and organization's good will is abused.

Tinster
08-10-2006, 06:56 PM
Really sorry for the news.

Maybe try a sting on the scammer?
I'll bet he pops up again selling this or that.
Keep an eye open and look for his ads. Answer one
and try for a physical contact.

Bring a real beefy friend and length of 1.5" diam.
pipe with you to the meet.

scam the scammer!

Andrew Mace
08-10-2006, 07:14 PM
[ QUOTE ]
At the very least get in touch with VTR and have them stop any further advertizing. While they disclaim responsibility for what's advertized they surely can't like it when their service and organization's good will is abused.

[/ QUOTE ]In the past, we (VTR) have done just that: stop further advertising as best we could. Beyond that, there isn't much we can do. VTR provides the free online classified as a service to any and all, whether they are VTR members or not.

An e-mail to <webmaster@vtr.org> can't hurt. And I'm no longer either a National Officer nor am I currently involved with the VTR web site, but as a "charter" member of VTR I'm willing to do whatever I can to help. Feel free to contact me privately if you wish.

jayhawk
08-10-2006, 07:21 PM
Billspit called my attention to your post under in my topic (see "near perfect TR3) Maybe just a coincidence that the one in the local paper is for $16,000. I just called on the ad. His is a light blue car with black interior that has been worked on by a good local shop. Any of this sound familiar? Sounds like a nice car. I have his phone number and name, etc-- it's not Cooper.

Geo Hahn
08-10-2006, 07:28 PM
What a dirtbag... can't think of a fate terrible enough for this guy.

Unfortunately, 'Charles Cooper' is likely a fictitious name... indeed, I think it is the name of the founder of Cooper race cars (father of John Cooper). Maybe that's his M.O. and his next sale will be as William Lyons or such.

I have cross-posted the info the one of the other Triumph lists since the ad is still live.

R6MGS
08-10-2006, 09:10 PM
Sorry to hear of your loss....I'll admit about a week ago I almost fell for a similar scam...I swear these scammers are getting better. I'd bid on a car, and was outbid...Few days later seller contacted me saying the winning bidder back out and offered the car to me for my bid. The seller said that to be safe they wanted to deal strictly through Ebay. Shortly after I got a 'purchase confirmation' from 'ebay'....It looked exactly like an official Ebay email...BUT after some thought I decided to call the seller and speak with her first. The number she gave me was unlisted and led to a general answering service....This threw up a red flag for me and I fowarded the 'purchases confirmation' to Ebay's Spoof department and they promptly informed me that the purchase confirmation I was sent was not really from Ebay. When I sent a confronting email for the seller I have had no response.
It's really dangerous to buy anything longdistance. Although it's not enough to completely turn me off...I'll continue to buy/sell on ebay and other sites, just using extreme caution.

At the point your at in this the worst thing you can do is nothing. You've essentially been robbed and need to do whatever is in your power to find justice. being a Canadian I am not sure exactly how to go about this kinda thing in the U.S but some of the above response sound good to me.

R6MGS
08-10-2006, 09:11 PM
This wasn't by any chance a yellow with black interior TR3?

Steve
08-10-2006, 09:22 PM
Here's the link.......

https://www.vtr.org/classifieds/detail.php?siteid=1745

R6MGS
08-10-2006, 09:29 PM
I know this sounds stupid but the lack of capital letters, and the typo rise up suspicion right away. If you honestly wanted to sell your car would you not read the ad over before posting?

mcguijo
08-10-2006, 09:31 PM
You should be able to file an internet theft report with his "local" police. I'd start with the city where the seller was supposed to live. Paypal offers some safety but does not sound like how things were paid for. Ebay has gone down hill in the last couple of years.

startech47
08-10-2006, 09:42 PM
I was scammed by Reliable Auto shipping in CA. Called out there to file charges and was told I had to start with the VA state police. The VA state police told me to notify VISA even though the money was already in Reliable's hands. VISA credited my account with the $650. The good news the TR3 was in great condition when Reindeer delivered it. Sorry to hear your troubles. Phil

BlakeDischer
08-10-2006, 09:52 PM
Good evening everyone,

Thanks to Andy Mace for bringing this matter to my attention. About two weeks ago, I was in communication with an individual who was defrauded by this person. After Mr. Cooper failed to return phone calls, the person defrauded did a search on the internet and found the photographs that Mr. Cooper used in his advertisement on a fellow enthusiast's web page. They were lifted without that person's knowledge. Mr Cooper used ctcoop@yahoo.com the first go round. I banned that email address and deleted his ad. He subsequently re-registered with an email address of ctcoop1027@yahoo.com and placed a second ad. I have now banned that one as well and removed the second ad, but of course there is nothing to prevent Mr. Cooper from registering again using a different Yahoo! address.

Because the VTR Classifieds are open for use by members and non-members alike, please exercise due diligence when entering into a transaction with a long distance seller. If you are a member of VTR, it would be prudent to ask a fellow member to inspect the vehicle before even sending a token good-faith deposit. If not a member of VTR, the Triumph Auto-X list is also a good resource to use in locating a fellow enthusiast who would be willing to inspect a car for you.

Best regards,
Blake Discher
VTR, VP Member Services

roger_abbott
08-10-2006, 11:04 PM
Wire fraud and mail fraud are federal crimes, the punishment for which is quite severe. Do a Google search on wire fraud to educate yourself and then contact the office of the United States District Attorney nearest you. I can't predict what they will do, if anything, but that is a good starting place. State law enforcement agencies usually are of little help.

I might also say that persistence pays. If you don't hear back from the USDA office within a reasonable time, keep calling until you get an answer. If it were my $9,000, I would also be calling my U. S. Representative if the USDA didn't do anything.

I regret your loss, I'm glad it wasn't me, it could have been, and I hope you nail this con artist.

TR4nut
08-11-2006, 05:20 AM
Blake-

I sent you a brief PM on this when you have time.

Thanks,
Randy

tomshobby
08-11-2006, 07:39 AM
Been more than a little busy getting a new company started and have not been around for a while.

Happened to see this thread and thought I would add my expierence.

A couple of years ago I was interested in a TR4 in California. I had a police officer friend check the registration and found it was not on record. Stopped my interest cold.

It was simple to do and did not cost anything. Granted it would not catch everything but it did catch that guy.

billspit
08-11-2006, 07:44 AM
Try to convince homeland security this guy is a terrorist sending $$$ to terrorist organizations.

Simon TR4a
08-11-2006, 09:26 AM
Wasn't Charles Cooper the name or alias of the guy who hijacked a commercial airliner in the early 1970's and got away by getting the pilot to reduce speed and altitude so he could do a parachute jump?
Anyway, I too am very sorry to hear of your problems; somehow we all assume that anyone in our hobby must be a "nice" person. It seems perhaps the more obvious scams on Ebay are being cracked down on and more sophisticated crooks are using other methods.
Thank you for warning us all!
Simon.

LastDeadLast
08-11-2006, 09:32 AM
That's D.B. Cooper

Brosky
08-11-2006, 10:49 AM
Who's to say that he isn't by running this and other scams? Quick cash to by bad stuff.......

dkritter
08-11-2006, 11:44 AM
I myself had a recent experience with a TR6 listed on Ebay in my hometown. The pictures looked great and the price was well below market, but since it was local I contacted the guy via email. He responded and said something like the buyer backed out but we could do the transaction as long as it was through ebay yet the ad no longer appeared on ebay. I had never heard of this and became suspicious. He kept saying the price was low because he needed the money real fast. I played along and we exchanged emails and then I told him that since it was in my town I wanted to inspect the car personally. Never had an email from him since. But, I have personally purchased two cars on ebay, the first was 100 mile from home so and the second was 600 miles, in both cases, all I had to lose was the deposit if it was not on the up and up as I was not going to finalize the deal without seeing the vehicle first.

jeff3113
08-12-2006, 09:35 AM
First off, really sorry to hear about your loss.

For the kind of money you are looking at you SHOULD go after this person. If someone in the law enforcement or attorney general's chain of command trys to push you off, go up higher. At some point the top dog will get annoyed by the very fact one of their direct reports couldn't handle your issue.

With all the high-tech info out there, it sure doesn't take much to get this person's information.

At some level I have to admit the suggestion to "meet up" with Mr Cooper does appeal to me......he'll be back in business when the $$ runs out -if not before. We are all best served to watch out for that TR3.

I wish you well in working the justice system...
jeff3113

Geo Hahn
08-12-2006, 02:34 PM
I gave it a try... sent him an email using my hotmail address asking if the car was still available. No bite though.

08-12-2006, 03:21 PM
Ya'll don't think this con artist doesn't read BCF too? That's the scary part.


Bill

jerrybny
08-12-2006, 03:25 PM
When I boughtmy TR6 off I ebay I talked to the guy a couple of times at his work place. I then put a deposit of 200 and rold him I would bring the rest when I came to pick up the car. Before giving him the check I went over the car and made sure it was what he said it was. It was so he got the check. Too many losers out there ripping people off. Had to be very careful. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

mailbox
08-12-2006, 04:59 PM
Contact your local Postal Inspectors thru the Postal Service. They might not be able to help, but I'll bet they have heard of him. Worth a shot. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

4aKen
08-12-2006, 05:37 PM
I would go with Roger Abbotts advice about the USDA and your State/Federal Representatives. I'd take this real personally.

AngliaGT
08-12-2006, 11:16 PM
Ad's been pulled.

- Doug

BOXoROCKS
08-16-2006, 02:46 PM
First off thanks to all for the input.Now the fun stuff, I cant type it all,but..you name em..I called em.Local to would you believe Secret Service.Bottom line Ho Hum. This guy has scammed dozens of guys for tens of thousands.I have been on the Ph every day.Heres where it gets good,this guy has a new ad running RIGHT NOW,same car, another web site.I called all the usual suspects and report it,..."yep well get on it,thanks". Last nite after 5pm is when I found him,called the authorities,NO ONE HOME after 5 pm. From now on if I get any info I am going to call Wal-Mart,24/7 ya know.Or maybe offer a reward of a coupon good for a dozen doughnuts. Anyway he is running the ad right now,does'nt it seem like a good time to try to nab this guy? This is incredible,terrorist/homeland security,also..crime doesnt pay? No joke,I hope Wal-Mart does get into law enforcement?

JamesWilson
08-16-2006, 03:09 PM
As a public service warning... where's the new ad being run?

Is he still calling himself Cooper?

BOXoROCKS
08-17-2006, 09:38 AM
A good idea,its Craigs list las vegas Nv.under cars+trucks type in ..triumph,up pops the same 61 TR3 he sold me.

jsneddon
08-17-2006, 03:12 PM
here's the link I think... different pictures than the other ad though... Is this the one Box?

https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/car/191874736.html

jsneddon
08-17-2006, 03:23 PM
looks like the license plate is 123 ENI but I can't make out the state... colors kind of look like Missouri. I know the attachment looks like INI but in photoshop you can see a little bump in the middle of the first character that isn't there on the last "I".

https://www.britishcarforum.com/ubbthreads/memberfiles/245237-plate.jpg

TR6oldtimer
08-17-2006, 04:15 PM
Post deleted by TR6oldtimer

TR6oldtimer
08-17-2006, 04:16 PM
Also, you may want to report your issue to the Internet Fraud Complaint Center:
https://www.ic3.gov/

Adrio
08-17-2006, 04:47 PM
I wonder if he is doing the same thing with the Piper Cub in the background. Only for those ads he has the TR3 in the bacground!

BOXoROCKS
08-17-2006, 05:38 PM
Yes Sir, same pix altho the interior pix is different,the one he sent me was of a new leather ,red/white piping.It grinds me to think he might get away. Believe me,I did some checking on this,this SOB is raking in Tens of Thousands. He has scammed over two dozen of Triumph guys,probably more.If he gets caught,maybe a few years in a Fed pen,then out. They say not to throw good money after bad,but I'm tempted.

Alan_Myers
08-17-2006, 06:10 PM
Maybe someone should contact this guy through the new ad and pretend to be interested, find out if he will meet to receive the payment... If so, take a local sheriff or cop along!

Also, has anyone reported this to Craigslist, to keep him from ripping off yet another buyer?

Bet this scammer isn't actually moving around himself, just using different regional or local online media around the country to pull his scam over and over. After all, why would anyone list a car that's in Kansas for sale in Nevada, and not in the Kansas City MO, Topeka or Wichita Craigslists? Sounds like he's trying to force a "long distance" purchase and avoid "buying locally" as is suggested, to avoid scams, right on the front page each Craigslist.

TR6oldtimer
08-17-2006, 06:39 PM
Yes, craigs list has been alerted. A corrected link to this board has been provided.

Their message:

-----Original Message-----
From: craigslist customer service [mailto:abuse@craigslist.org]
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 3:56 PM
To:
Subject: Re: May be a fraud

Thanks for the heads-up on this, much appreciated.

If possible, can you forward a link to this post, or perhaps the post ID number, so we can take a closer look?


Regards,
craigslist customer service

vettedog72
08-17-2006, 07:10 PM
VTR no longer has the ad....."seems to have dissapeared"

BoxoRocks, there has been an old solution for thiefs and can be taken care of by Mr.Smith and his partner, yes, Mr. Wesson.

I hope you get your money back and some interest!