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07-31-2006, 04:03 PM
So for those of you who read the "help" thread, I now know the source of my oil leak. You can see it if you look closely in the attached photograph.

I'll go on a minor rant now. The shop I took it to kept it for 4 hours before deciding they were too busy to look at it today. They want me to come back on Wednesday. I was so annoyed I decided to do it myself.

Oh and if anyone was wondering what the SP1T sandwich plate thermostat looks like, there is one attached to the bottom of the filter housing. You can see it in the picture. Makes for a really neat install in car - two lines instead of four.

Of course this is all new. Mocal quality control must be slipping...

Tinster
07-31-2006, 04:30 PM
Alana: Tinster's Stupid Question(s) of the Day.

I give up. What is that very clean item in your photo?

Does my 69TR 250/6 have one of them?

Does oil go thru the item in some manner?

Can the item in the photo be buggered up by a previous owner?

thanks,

Tinster in PR

07-31-2006, 04:44 PM
Its a spin on oil filter attachment. It has a thermostat plate with lines for an oil cooler attached to the bottom - a Mocal SP1T - then the white thing you can see a small amount of is the spin on oil filter.

If you didnt convert to a spin on filter you don't have one. The problem with it is highlighted in green. The lip that holds the seal is not there any more. Thats not good for the integrity of the system. Not good at all.

At least its not the rear main seal...

07-31-2006, 05:36 PM
Dang, Alan, that is pitiful! Looks like a bad casting, and looks like they have no quality control. Pitiful indeed.


Bill

07-31-2006, 05:37 PM
Better yet, the guy who sold it is trying to say its the way it was fitted...

DNK
07-31-2006, 10:45 PM
Alan, could be true, If the installers work in a zoo. Nice try people. How about backing up your product. see if you can oil and a case of cleaner for the garage floor from them.
don

08-01-2006, 07:29 AM
I'll do better.
I'll name them if they charge me for the replacement.
I'm really not impressed with this at all.
You have no idea...

jerrybny
08-01-2006, 08:55 AM
Do it. If we don't stand up they will continue to produce crap. OK off my soapbox now.

bobh
08-01-2006, 09:17 AM
Alan,
The vendor may be correct. The lip appears to be broken. Possibly from too much torque when the adapter was not properly aligned. I'll check my adapter against my spare engine to see if it is possible to have the lip resting on a surface of the block so that the pressure applied during the tightening of the bolt is concentrated on the lip.
Did you find the piece that was broken off? You should try to determine if it was still inside the adapter.
It the spin on adapter a one piece unit? (not including the SP1T) The reason I ask is that Mocal's original design was a one piece unit. Roger Williams mentions in his book that there can be problems with the adapter fitting some blocks. He said the blocks were not consistant. Mocal redesigned the adapter as a 2 piece unit to accomodate the differences in blocks. I don't know if the 2 piece unit is the adapter plus the SP1T or if the adapter itself is different. If the adapter is now 2 pieces, and your block is one that is on the edge of the tolerance the misalignment may have contributed to the breaking of the lip.
One more question; you mentioned the SP1T uses 2 hoses instead of 4. Doesn't the adapter with oil cooling ports only have 2 hoses? I'm not clear on where the other 2 hoses are used.
By the way, I like the combination of the adapter and the SP1T. I have an adapter without the cooler ports. Instead of buying a new adapter I can do what you did and get a SP1T and I'll be ready to install a cooler. Bob

08-01-2006, 10:07 AM
Bob,
The adapter is a Mocal. Its one piece.
It has the sandwich plate attached as a seperate item. That is the second piece I referred to.

The usual approach with these is to have the two hoses out going into an external thermostat - which require another two hoses to the oil cooler. This setup has the thermostat built into the sandwich plate, eliminating the extra set of hoses and the requirement to mount the external thermostat somewhere (usually on the inner wing).

Back to the adapter plate. If you look closely you can see that the inner flange that has sheared away is machined eccentrically. The two circles are a long way from concentric. Extrapolating them, you can see that the wall thickness in the part that has gone would be almost non-existant. Its hard to see in the lowres picture that I had to post, but it is clearly a flaw. I'd have been happier if it had been picked up before install, but I'm not going to blame the mechanic for this one. It was installed just fine, it is clearly a defect in the part.

GB1
08-01-2006, 10:50 AM
I agree it looks like it was defectively machined.

IMHO, If the vendor will not work with you, I would try the manufacturer.

Patrick

bobh
08-01-2006, 11:20 AM
Alan,
Thanks. I see the adapter is shorter and doesn't have the cooler ports in the single piece. This must be the redesign. I also now understand what you meant by 4 hoses.
I also see the thinner wall on the side that failed.
You may want to contact Thinkauto they are the UK manufacturer of Mocal parts.
https://www.thinkauto.com/
BOBH

swift6
08-01-2006, 11:58 AM
Was that adapter on the engine when it was on the Dyno? If so and it didn't leak then, then it broke later after install, ergo not an install problem but a weak product problem.

08-01-2006, 12:19 PM
It was on the dyno. It ran fine. It did not leak.
Its a defective product, not bad installation.
I expect the vendor to stand by it, especially given the amount of $ he's had from me in the last 6 months for parts. If he doesn't then I'll exercise my right as a consumer to warn others away from him. Hopefully he'll do the right thing and that won't be necessary.

4aNot4
08-01-2006, 09:09 PM
It looks like the outer lip has broken away, and one piece in the photo is separating and ready to break away. Which begs the question...where did the pieces go? Hopefully not into the engine. Sounds like Mocal has had to redesign that product before...maybe others have had issues as well.

Brosky
08-02-2006, 02:29 PM
A very good question. Look for pieces possibly wedged into pickup screen.

08-03-2006, 05:55 AM
So the replacement part arrived yesterday. The outer lip on this one is at least 2x as thick as the other one, so if you convert, make sure you check the piece you get. Now my car doesn't leak oil at least...

LastDeadLast
08-03-2006, 06:58 AM
Alan,

Glad you figured it out! I remember when I converted, I missed the "taking out the original O-ring" part of the instructions and dumped about 2 quarts of oil on the garage floor. Nice.

After as much as you've done on your car, these little problems are to be expected.

BTW, As far as the heating problem, I have uncoated headers with the triple carbs. I've had that thing in stop and go traffic in 90+ degree temps with no overheating or stalling. However, with outside temps that high, I do keep the electric fan on all the time.

Alan_Myers
08-03-2006, 02:41 PM
Hi Alan,

I agree with Shannon's point "After as much as you've done on your car, these little problems are to be expected."

You might take comfort and solace from watching some of those auto-related "reality" shows on TV. Check out "Wrecks to Riches", "Overhaulin'", "Rides" and "American Hot Rod" in particular. You'll also see some of the same on "Biker Build-Off" and "American Chopper".

Nearly always when completing a restoration and/or a modification, those "pros" go to start it up for the first time and there are a series of glitches, leaks and assorted little problems. Some of the most common are incorrectly connected wires or missing grounds, which in turn sometimes burn up brand new electronic components. Plug wire firing order and dizzy installation seem to be another place that lots of errors occur. Coolant and other leaks are common. Failed components, brand new right out of the box, happen a lot too.

All this is just part of the process, working out the bugs in a complex system. I bet auto manufacturers have similar issues they sort out all the time, as cars come off the assembly line. They just don't tell us about them!

It's very, very rare to see a car which has undergone a lot of work and modification start and run perfectly on the very first try. (And, on TV, that might actually be more thanks to editing to fit footage into a 1 hour show than because of a mythical "perfect" installation.)

So, if the "experts" who build up tens, or dozens or hundreds of cars a year have these sorts of gremlins to chase, I'd certainly expect the rest of us who build/restore/modify one or two or three cars in our lifetime to have our share, too.

Sounds like you are well on your path to getting it all sorted out. (Ideally, the mechanic who did the mods should be involved and helping. I would, if I were him.) I'm sure as detail-oriented and particular about it as you are, you'll have the car on the road soon and having a ball with it!

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08-03-2006, 09:12 PM
I don't agree. I'm talking about installing a rebuilt engine that has already run on a dyno so you know it works.
If a wrench can't get that right before returning the car then what hope is there.

My problem is that the aforementioned wrench is away. Plus given some of the things I'm seeing I'm not sure I want him anywhere near the thing...

4aNot4
08-05-2006, 02:02 AM
I agree with Alana. He paid his money for a competent rebuild, and expects it to be done right. This isn't American Chopper, with its contrived "issues." How many times has the producer of that show said, "We need some drama...conjure up a problem with the primary!" That show is all scripted entertainment...we're dealing with reality here.

swift6
08-05-2006, 11:11 AM
When you entrust as much work as Alan did to his mechanic, he should have expected a better result. Especially since it had been run in on the dyno. The mechanic should have thoroughly tested the car for these problems before delivering it. I know a few Brit mechanics that are obsessive about this so that when they deliver the car they are confident that it will motor down the road offering enjoyment and relief about the money spent by the owner. If they aren't sure of it, they won't deliver the car until they are. Even if that means making the customer wait. It sounds more like Alan's mechanic got the engine back from the dyno runs and rushed getting it back together and didn't do any real testing or troubleshooting as he was too pre-occupied with getting it out of his shop. Paying for a professional service should result in a professional result.

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