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07-07-2006, 02:32 PM
Just got back from the machine shop. My engine is on the engine dyno, the guy is putting on the carbs (so I can have some time with it on the road this year). I got the bill - 3300 for all the labor. Sounds like a lot, but I had a lot done...

Looked more closely at the bill - no line boring. No cam bearings.

Seems there was a misunderstanding between the mechanic and the engine shop. I gave a sheet listing all I wanted to the mechanic - it never got passed on.

Now what on earth am I going to do. I'm too angry to think rationally right now. I want the car back, but I've got 10k in this engine right now, so I want it done right too...

Grrr. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/pukeface.gif

michalotti_tr
07-07-2006, 02:39 PM
Sorry to hear about that.

I would make sure the mechanic got the problem fixed ASAP - it was his failure. Make him understand that you are not willing to wait much longer for the engine to be delivered. I will usually say something nice the first time, but if it's not taken care of promptly I won't hesitate to go ballistic if I think I'm getting B.S.ed

trboost
07-07-2006, 03:12 PM
I would not be to happy either. He should have had a punch list of the required work & checked each one off as completed. This is not like forgetting to install the spin on oil filter adapter, it requires full dissasembly of the motor.
On the bright side, if the cam bores were in spec they worked very well and were pretty durable. Aggressive valve springs will accelerate wear but standard or slightly stiffer should work well. Worn bores will show up as low oil pressure reading at idle when hot.
Make him aware and try to work it in to the final mods of the car. When it's brought in for the SC & F/I if you feel it's needed.
To be honast, I think 10K for what you have had fabricated is not bad. Sure it's alot of green but you had a full custom engine done.

07-07-2006, 03:27 PM
Mitch, 10k is just the engine work and parts for it, not any of the fabrication work, drivetrain changes, fuel system changes, frame reinforcement or anything else. I'm in for over 25k for that lot (plus car), and I still have the ECU to fit and some custom work for the s/c to have done.

My problem right now is that the mechanic who I took the car to to do all the work farmed the engine work out to a shop that only does race engines. Somewhere between him and the engine shop, the list of stuff I wanted doing to the engine got lost and I know full well that it's going to degenerate into a he said/she said situation.

So now I'm stuck. Do I have them disassemble the thing, line bore it and put it back together - the main issue here is the amount of time thats going to take - or do I just hope for the best. I bought a set of triple carbs just so I'd get some running out of it this year. The amount of running I'll have is diminishing rapidly.

I'm totally fed up right now. Anyone want to make me an offer on a practically rebuilt TR6.

Brosky
07-07-2006, 03:55 PM
Alan, please consider the following:

The facts are that you presented a complete list of work to be done that was not subject to modification without your express written or verbal consent. Therefore any deviation by the repair shop is not acceptable and must be remedied to your satisfaction immediately.

Take an unemotional approach and go to the shop and respectfully request a meeting with the management and everyone involved. Next, request an immediate tear down to have the line bore and bearing installation done properly and install the bearings. If you don't do it now, despite the inconvenience, you will end up regretting that decision.

It's hard to keep the emotions out at this point in time, but this is purely a business transaction and must be treated as such, keeping your interests at the forefront.

Your engine must now take priority in their shop schedule.

Russ Austin
07-07-2006, 04:35 PM
Alan; Bummer in the summer, I agree with Paul. I think that would be the course to take. Having been there myself on an engine rebuild for my 3, there were items that were completely missed. After fuming for a few hours I called back and made an appointment, met with the owner and mechanic and ironed things out.

Best of luck

trboost
07-07-2006, 08:02 PM
Alan,

There's so much anticipation on a project like this that it's difficult to deal with set backs & mistakes. Every time you think your moving forward & you can see the light at the end of the tunnel some one turns the light off. This car is a "one of" and will encounter alot of problems. IT WILL BE WORTH IT IN THE END. If you have the money to invest in something that give you pleasure then it's worth it. Every time my car is down for repair I start to freak , I can only imagine how bad it is to be with out it in the height of the driving season, it sucks. The summers to follow will be great.

I think the first step is to aproach the mechanic and let him suggest a solution. Cam bearings are not a engine must have. They are good for saving a block with worn bores. My machine shop could not do the long bore needed & sent it out to a high end race shop with the proper machine. In anticipation of that rebuild I had called around and was amazed at how many shops could not do a line bore on a straight six.

I say move forward & drive the car with the understanding that this will be corrected if oil pressure problems show up. Find out what the measurements on the bores were or if the shop even took the time to check them.

Brosky
07-07-2006, 08:55 PM
Mitch, while my heart agrees with you, my head and past knowledge gained from being in the engine repair business disagrees. There is never as good a time to fix a problem with an engine as when it is out of the car. Another week delay at this time will save a month of heartache in the future. Not to mention potential scratches, dents and leaks.

I can't tell you the times that techs have said over the years, "I wish I had fixed it while it was out and on the engine stand."

When I was promoted to service director at a large dealership years ago, my techs had a plaque engraved for me which had one of my favorite cliches on it:

"Why didn't we have the time to do it right the on first trip in, but now we have the time to do it over again?"

It was taught to me many years ago when I was turning wrenches and it was a great lesson then and still is now.

Alan, cut your potential losses and fix it correctly and completely while it's out.

swift6
07-07-2006, 10:21 PM
With the amount of power that Alan is planning for his masterpiece to eventually produce. I would think that the cam bearings would be a particularly helpful items for any sort of useful longevity out of the engine.

I have to agree with the other statements about fixing it now. It would take less time now than when it would have to come backout of the car later.

I also have to agree with the advice about keeping your emotions out of it. It will be hard but don't let them see you upset. The moment you loose your cool you loose the upperhand and it will become a pissing contest. Scream into a pillow or something for a few minutes before you talk to them. If you keep your cool and press your case they will know you mean business and will come to an agreeable solution much quicker.

Mitch is also right that on projects like this there are bound to be occasional setbacks. You can plan your best to avoid them but if they are going to happen you can't stop them, only roll with them and continue on. It will all be worth it in the end. When you rush things you make mistakes and really regret letting your anxiousness get the better of you.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

07-07-2006, 10:30 PM
Join the club, Alan. The only guys that don't seem to get screwed by a mechanic are those on the forum that are their own mechanic. It is really tough to get a good shop to do what you want and do it right. I have been taken advantage of so many times that I keep a jar of jelly in my cubby. I say talk to the shop and explain that anyone building an engine to this level of performance expects cam bearings. It is their job to break it back down and do it right. If I were you, I wouldn't settle for less at this point. I know it's tough and someone will have to take the hit but it shouldn't be you. It amazes me that this shop, knowing what you are going through, would let this slip.
Take em to task, bud. You will never be happy.


Bill

Bruno_69z28
07-07-2006, 10:42 PM
At this point you have to think, what is going to make you happy. Youíve waited this long, a couple of weeks wonít matter. If the mechanic agrees he missed these two things, then he should correct them in a reasonable amount of time. If he says he never saw the list, prepare for battle. Or you can figure how much time heíll have to spend to fix the problem, and ask for an adjustment in price. In the thirty plus motors Iíve rebuilt, Iíve only line-bored one (VW bug motor) and never had any problems. Cam bearings are almost always replaced due to the block being cleaned (ďboiledĒ). The cleaning compounds used are not easy on bearings. Cam bearings would not be hard to replace at this time.

Bill

07-07-2006, 10:56 PM
I pretty much agree with everything thats been said. I ought to get the bloody thing stripped down and done right.

Herein lie my problems though.

1. The original shop I dropped my car off is a small place, one wrench, one trainee. The owner is the guy doing the work on my car. He's clearly dropped the ball here, and I am furious. Up to now though he's been a nice guy - he's gone out of his way to be helpful, the stuff he's done is 1st rate - so I don't want to be a complete ass about what is probably a genuine mistake. Especially since my car is up on stands in his shop with no engine in.

2. He's going on vacation in 2 weeks. For a month. To Europe. If my engine isn't in in the next 2 weeks it's not going to go in until September. By that time I get (maybe) a month or two of driving out of it. The triple carbs were a total waste of $ and effort then.

3. It's unlikely the engine shop will be able to do a strip, bore and assemble in the timeframe that allows it to go in the car - i) they are busy, ii) they take a long time to do stuff, iii) it's technically not their fault so while sympathetic they don't have much vested, and iv) they have to send it out to a specialist for line boring anyway.

4. I have a short fuse. When I count to ten I usually make it to three. I'm not sure how calm I'll remain if things don't get resolved to my satisfaction, and as I already said the guy who dropped the ball has been pretty good all in all. I wanted the engine in and the car back six months ago. Waiting for custom parts was a big part of this problem though, and not his fault at all. He wants the car done - he needs the space...

I'll make some calls on Monday and we'll see how it plays out. I'm still dead unhappy though.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

07-07-2006, 10:59 PM
Bruno - the car doesnt have cam bearings as standard. you have to line bore it to fit them. they are the ones from the spitfire engine istr.

Bruno_69z28
07-07-2006, 11:22 PM
Iím curios, what type of bearing surface does the motor use for the cam?

Bill

SCguy
07-08-2006, 01:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If my engine isn't in in the next 2 weeks it's not going to go in until September. By that time I get (maybe) a month or two of driving out of it. The triple carbs were a total waste of $ and effort then.

[/ QUOTE ]

Try to see the problem clearly... The carbs are unfortunate, but are really not part of the problem.

As one who has had issues with their mechanic (my restoration was in it's fifth year when I finally took my car back from my mechanic) I wish you the best of luck.

07-08-2006, 05:29 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Iím curios, what type of bearing surface does the motor use for the cam?

Bill

[/ QUOTE ]

Like all stock TR6 engines, nice smooth holes. It's the spit that came with cam bears, really bushes.

The TR6 block has to be line-bored to accept cam bearings. Not too many machine shops are set up to do this. It is desireable in a ultra-high performance engine with a modified cam and hard-working valve train. My engine is high performance, not ultra-. Cam bearings would be nice but I rarely redline.


Bill

trboost
07-08-2006, 06:17 AM
The cam rotaes directly in the cast iron block. That's why it's only important if the bores are worn. The design for the "6" block never had cam bearings, this became a fix for motors with lots of miliage & egged bores. The consiquences of a sloppy cam bore are poor oil pressure & inaccurate valve adjustment. The oil delivery route begins at the oil pump, then the crank & next is the cam. A sloppy fit between the cam & block lets the oil squirt out before it gets to the head. I know several owners with highly modifed motors with over 100k that never used cam bearings. They are only needed to correct a problem & in my opinion add little durability over the original design. I did it on my motor simply because I asked the machine shop to specificaly measure it and let me know the spec. Since it was out of round it was a necessary fix. My original engine suffered from chroinc low oil pressure so I was suspect from the beginning. When I assembled the last engine it was my goal to make sure every thing in the motor got lubed.

Paul & Swift make a valid point about fixing what's not right now. The problem is that we don't know if the block needs them. Mechanics that take on projects like this are few and far between. The prospect of a challenge, the money & doing something cool gets the ball running, but it's very common for his enthusiasm & yours to NOT remain at the same level. As problems and delays continue this turns in to a PIA for him & he starts to rush & miss things just to get it out of his shop & get paid. They even begin to think they didn't charge enough for the amount of headaches & time this would take. Remember this guy still needs to make a living on a daily basis.

The reality is that your so deep in this car with this mechanic that no matter what you need him. It would be very tough to find someone to pick up where he left off. Bite the bullet and ride it out. If this summer is not going to happen then let it go & make sure it's ready for 07.

If you have the money & desire , buy a "6" beater to have fun with this summer & sell it next year. It's not that uncommon to have an extreme version & a daily beater of a car you love.

07-08-2006, 09:22 AM
This is the last TR I'm owning, regardless of whether I keep it or sell it. I'm going back to German cars - they might be pricey, but at least I can find places to actually work on them within a reasonable drive. They don't (usually) spew oil over the driveway either.

I bought the -6 as a toy, because i) I always wanted one, and ii) last summer I really wanted a toy. SWMBOs beetle wasn't cutting it as a fun drive - we didn't chip it or fix the suspension yet (plus its heavy) - and the Disco is a total white elephant.

I still want a toy. This was meant to be a project for the winter, and was supposed to be something cool, not a cash sink that will drag on for the rest of my bloody life.

I hate it when things don't go right. I wish I'd just paid the bill rather than looking at it. I'd never have known and wouldn't be wasting my Saturday obsessing about what to do...

tomshobby
07-08-2006, 01:43 PM
I do not know about where you live but Consumer Protection is pretty good for these things here in Wisconsin. If all else fails it might be worth considering.
Calm discussions are the best if they can work. It is not a good thing to have an angry person working in an engine.

4aKen
07-08-2006, 02:36 PM
"Arrgh...
I hate my car and want to get rid of it.
Must be at the halfway point."

Was that your signoff before this experience?

Reading the guys responses to this problem it sounds like it is debatable as to the work you requested should have been done. It sounds like your mechanic turned the machining over to an excellent shop (specializing in race prep engines). I'm sure (well, sorta sure)that the tech made sure all components were well within spec to support the new/upgraded components.

That being said I'd certainly inform your mechanic of your concern and insist that if there is any problems that he pull the engine (not you) and make it right.

As far as your German car observations, I've owned 7, two 911s and a 7 series BMW...a money pit that never ended and a big loss on sale. I'm beginning to get mad just thinking about the BMW and that service department...my dog better get out of my way.

07-08-2006, 02:46 PM
On second thought, Alan, I think that you can get by with what you have. After reading the other posts, cam bearings would be nice but do you really need them. Cool down, I was getting teed of in sympathy for you! The scary thing is you talk about leaving the fold and jumping ship to the German cars. Man, don't do it. You will have to get a whole new set of friends, many of which you won't like nearly as much as you like us.


Bill /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonod.gif

myspitfire
07-08-2006, 02:59 PM
Alan;First thing get an arbatrator a lawyer.Get all the papers together that you requested work to be done for evidence then follow your lawyers advice.You would have some recourse action if you put the job expense's on a credit card.If you don't do that it will go into subrogation.Also the shops should have insurance for just this thing.Good Luck....I also agree don't LET UP ON THE PRESSURE ON THEM.My total engine rebuild costs on my 1500 Spitfire,including new clutch came to $3317.00 & the job was put on a credit card...& with a 6 month warranty labor & parts,very satisfied.But yes try to sit down with them & let them know your serious about fixing it NOW.

LastDeadLast
07-08-2006, 02:59 PM
Alan,

Get a hold of yourself man! Everyone of us have run across something like this from time to time. If I had a dollar for every two-bit part I've bought for my TR and had to replace it down the road I'd be semi-rich man.

I tend to agree with Bill, you might be OK. If your going to be racing the car all the time and/or running a big cam with lots of lift, then maybe you might need the bearings, but otherwise not. When I started my rebuild I did lots of research on the subject and the conclusion was for the type of driving that I do, which is similar to Bill's (cruising with the periodic flogging) the bearings are just not needed.

I personally would try to get a bit knocked off the price for your trouble and forget about it.

About BMW, one of my favorite cars in the whole world is the older M6. I almost bought one but my best friend talked me out of it because of a crazy maintenance costs. Trust me, there's not a BMW made that would get as many looks as your TR.

Brosky
07-08-2006, 03:51 PM
Amen to that! A friend of mine has a new Z-4 that is really nice. He had it parked next to my TR6 and I actually felt bad for all of the attention that I got and he didn't get. Well, for a minute or so I felt bad.

Besides, look at all of darn money I've wasted on trying to prove that the Gunst bearing was a good idea??? I'll be paying for the fourth (4th), yeah, 4th transmission R&R. And I was in the business for 25 years and darn well should have know better after the first one made noise.

I'm justifying it by saying that I'm having the new carpeting installed along with a new CD player.

Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket.

MrPandy
07-08-2006, 03:59 PM
My time spent as an owner of a 633CSi makes my "investments" in LBCs seem quite reasonable. The BMW was a great car WHEN it was fully functional. However, the downtime was frequent, expensive, and a waste of my time. Somehow, the downtime with Triumphs doesn't seem as bad, since for me a big part of TR ownership is research, innovation and repair/modification to get/keep it running. With the 633, it was towing, waiting and spending (and spending and spending...)

jessebogan
07-08-2006, 04:08 PM
Easy folks, easy. It is a little early to talk about lawyers, arbitration and so on. Talk to the guy that is fixing the car. If, so far the two of you have a good working relationship, let that work to your benefit. The key to resolving disputes like this is to stay calm, and communicate. The shop owner might have some ideas to solve the problem. There could be a short term solution(Use the engine as is for the remainder of the driving season,) and a long term solution ( remove the engine next winter and fix the shortfall). I would not want someone that I have forced to accept a situation to be doing hurry up work on MY engine. That is not the way to long term engine(or mental) health. Besides, if you put a few miles on it, and a pro tears it dowm again, you would have a chance to nip any problems in the bud. It is not the end of the world, unless you make it so. And surely not a reason to go back to german cars. Oh yeah, I have had a lot of air cooled VWs over the years. They can mark their spot as well as any brit car out there.

jerrybny
07-08-2006, 04:22 PM
Lets remember folks. Just about anyone can buy and drive a BMW. But it takes a special class of people to buy, maintain and drive a Triumph. Down the road you will probably look back and say to yourself boy that was a waste of a few gray hairs. Hoping everything turns out alright for ya. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

07-08-2006, 04:53 PM
I was talking about Porsches not BMWs. I never had problems with a 911.
You couldn't give me a BMW. Except maybe a 507.

Oh and the sig was edited just after I saw the bill...

TRTEL
07-08-2006, 04:55 PM
Alan, I'm sure I'm beating a dead horse here, because this string is so long I've forgotten the first responses already. Did you actually pay for it and not get it or would it have cost you another $500 if they had done it. Having worked at a shop (albeit a long time ago) at which half of it's work was mostly Triumph competition, people always left decisions like that up to my boss (I can only ever so vaguely recall one line boring because of some problem with a main cap). I have to believe that those folks looked at it. (Did they have the cam?) One thing to keep in mind are you adding an alloy sump. While they strengthen and stiffen up the whole assembly you want to be darn sure the mating surfaces are both absolutely parallel, read lightly resurface both. Because if they are not one will slightly warp the other and there goes the perfect line bore. But there is also incompetence to deal with, this spring the 'best' shop around here replace the small end bushing in my best set of lightened polished connecting rods. So they chucked them up in a vise with steel facings leaving deep marks in the necks. They are ruined for competition. So they didn't charge me. I suppose I didn't pay my money, but took my chances and lost. Overall I think I vote with the drive it now for the remainder of the summer. Just don't think the oil pressure will be that much of a concern.
Tom Lains
TS8651
TS58107
ps: German cars are great if and only if someone else hasn't kicked the life out of them first, when they all become the 'ultimate driving you crazy machines'.

07-08-2006, 05:09 PM
I asked for it to be done originally, as part of the list of upgrades. I didn't pay for it - it would have been another $750 on top if they had. In fact I still haven't paid for the work - the engine is being assembled on the dyno. At this juncture though that's irrelevant.

If I had paid for it then we'd be having a totally different conversation.

The engine shop did everything else I wanted - and I mean everything, the list ran to two solid pages. Probably the only thing you could think of to add that it doesn't have would be a billet crank.

I need to take a vacation I think. At the end of the day it's just a car, and I shouldn't be so annoyed. It's not like this was done maliciously. I just should have double checked what they were asked to do...

Brosky
07-08-2006, 08:59 PM
Good perspective Alan. It wasn't done maliciously and it is just a car, albeit your car.

Life is short, so make a decision one way or the other after sleeping on it for a few days and go with it. Like I said, once I realized I needed a new radio and new carpeting, all was well.

vettedog72
07-09-2006, 07:41 AM
Alan:
If you mean the engine is being assembled on the dyno, then have them stop and disassemble the work and get the block line bored for the bearings. (I assume the head is not on.) I hope you get some satisfaction with all of this but I don't think you will ever be satisfied with out the cam bearings and there is NO better time to get them. Stop now and get it done.

07-09-2006, 08:34 AM
Too late for that - its back together ready to run. When I say assembling, I mean that he's setting up the triple carbs to test it.
It was only going on the dyno so I could get #s to work out drivetrain losses and to run it in properly, otherwise it would be getting put back in my car by now.

TR6oldtimer
07-09-2006, 11:51 AM
Alan,

There are many more things I would be concerned about with the TR6 engine then the cam bearings. As you know, to line bore the cam bearings requires a complete disassembly of the engine. So no matter what deal you make, the effort will be as much if not more then the original rebuild and will cost you more $$ and more months of waiting. Check out the old cam. If there is no scouring or undue wear I wouldn't worry about it.
Right now the engine is on the dyno. Run it in as planned. If the valve timing stays and the oil pressure is normal. Put it in your car, drive it, and enjoy it. That's what it is all about. The $1,000 you save will pay for a nice stay in 4 star hotels as you tour about this summer.

myspitfire
07-09-2006, 03:37 PM
I agree with just one or two posts here;And i see & read already things are calming down now.Just sounds like you were hyperventilating,Since you've got all these hugs you can see clearly now!DON'T WORRY BE HAPPY!....And over time i'll bet you a bottom dollar your be back in a Triumph They have a tendency to get ETCHED in your memory,Those Porches(sp ;-) are just more jelly bean cars on the road.
Ken&Whitelightning(alias Myspitfire)

anthony7777
07-09-2006, 06:57 PM
alana, i see you live in new york how fortunate for you, my buddy was at my house today and had a similar engine rebuild problem, first thing he did was to find out if the shop was a "certfied" repair shop under n.y. state law then called the n.y. state d.m.v repair division, they sent an inspector to watch over the entire engine break down to see what work had really been completted and how much of it was fraud,it seams n.y. state is very aggressive in these matters.also you should have the price you paid adjusted for the work that was not done if you deside to use this engine, personally i would have it done properly the way i wanted it.id rather drive the car for one month nowing it was done right then drive it for 4 months waiting for somthing to happen, but thats just me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

07-09-2006, 07:22 PM
You misunderstand - I have not been billed for the work that hasn't been done. There is no question of fraud. It was at worst an oversight or a miscommunication between the two shops. I'm pretty unhappy that it hasn't been done, but it's not a 1-800-Lawsuit situation though. Oh and the shops are both in CT not in NY.

Brosky
07-09-2006, 08:09 PM
"Arrgh...
I hate my car and want to get rid of it.
Must be at the halfway point. "

Alan, you know that I sympathize with you so hang in there. After all of the time and money that I spent on mine, to finally have it back and running good makes it all worth while. The past three nights have been beautiful and my wife and I went out for 30-50 mile cruises just to get ice cream. I felt like a kid again. It made the wait and expense all worth it.

As suggested, check the wear on the old cam. If the journals are evenly worn with no burned or blackened areas, the block bearings may be just fine and you may want to chance putting it back in.

After all I spent mine is far from perfect, but it's good enough for me to have fun with.

Now if I could just get that darn horn working properly..arrrrgghhhhh!!!!!!

07-13-2006, 02:14 PM
So I was right, it's going to be a he says/she says between the engine shop and the workshop I gave the car to.

I've decided that the best thing I can do is get the car back running, then worry about the cam bearings when I do the rest of the work this winter. I'll probably pull the engine myself, strip it and send the block off to be machined (we'll have moved house by then I hope).

On a happier note I got to change my sig. Got #s from the engine dyno - better than expected too...

4aKen
07-13-2006, 02:19 PM
All's well that ends well!

07-13-2006, 02:23 PM
Well not exactly - I'll still have all the work of pulling the engine, stripping it and getting it machined.

It'll still be better than paying a lawyer though...

aeronca65t
07-13-2006, 02:31 PM
For the record, I have two friends who race TR6s and neither of those cars has cam bearings.
The Triumph-based 1500 in my Spridget (same as Spit engine) has never had cam bearings either...and it has about 100 racing hours on the cam.

Still, I understand.....I'd be ticked off too.

07-13-2006, 02:59 PM
Yeah, but your race TRs are probably putting out what, 175hp crank on triple carbs.

I'm intending to try for a fair bit more than that. I have a high lift, long duration cam with a very aggressive ramp, 1.55:1 rockers and uprated springs so I know there is too much pressure to leave it as is for long...

bobh
07-13-2006, 03:06 PM
What numbers did you get from the dyno?

07-13-2006, 03:13 PM
Edit - I got the dyno sheet from the engine dyno and fixed these #s. This is the best he got. I have a graph from a different pull with all #s within 1hp and 1lbft, so the #s are repeatable, which is nice...

Peak c_hp - 163.7 @ 5800.
C-hp over 150 from 5000 all the way up to 6500.
Peak c_tq - 161.9 @ 4600.
C-tq over 160 from 3700 - 4900, over 150 from 3000 - 5700.

This is on triple ZS, using a cam thats been custom ground for efi and a s/c, so not optimal by any means, and running with an 8.5:1 CR.

I'm not unhappy with these numbers as a start.

michalotti_tr
07-14-2006, 08:13 AM
Alan,

I certainly understand your fustration, I feel the same way except I have no one but myself to be upset with. My own restoration is 7 years and counting - you have no clue as to how bad I need a drive in an LBC! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif after reading all that has been written by you I think your best path is to have the car assembled and drive it for the remaining driving season, with an understanding with the mechanic that he will rectify the oversight over the winter months. I don't believe you can seriously harm the engine over the few months you'll drive it without cam bearings this summer.

And if you make it as far as Arkansas, give me a ride before I go into DTs! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif

07-14-2006, 12:13 PM
Raymond, I was up there today. The two shops are giving me a he said / she said about who is to blame, so neither one wants to fix it without me forcing the issue.

Of course I could force the issue and state that the engine shop is a subcontractor, chosen by the mechanic I gave the car to and my contract is with the mechanic's shop alone, so it's up to him to make it right. The thing is I feel that at this point it really will not be worth going the lawsuit route.

It'll kill any chances of me getting the car back this summer (it is totally apart right now, the only thing in it is the diff), and will ruin any goodwill or willingness for either of the two parties to do a "proper" job on the fix, or the reinstall of all the pieces.

I'll do better to pull the engine myself over the winter, get someone else to line bore it, and make sure next time all specs are in writing and signed by everyone. That way I'll only have myself to blame and can quit whining...

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michalotti_tr
07-14-2006, 12:52 PM
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif Sounds like the least painful path in the long run.

By the way, now that I've aquired a TR6 engine, I'd love to know the specs of your engine. The deciding factor for me was being able to get a Triumph engine for $200 whereas the Toyota was going to be $2000 ($3500 for the turbo version) My limited budget liked the first number much better - it means I might actually get to complete it this winter!

Anyway, I hope the car goes together quickly and all your driving time is perfect!

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