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View Full Version : To pull or not to pull....that is the question



06-12-2006, 11:36 AM
Dear folks,
I am faced with a dilemma. I have to change my ring gear and rear oil seal in my beloved TR6. While the tranny is out, I might as well put in a new clutch. All the parts are sitting in my office (ok, the ring gear is on the way but I am dealing with TRF and ya'll know what that means.)
I have pulled (pushed) the transmission in this car 4 times, this will make the fifth. Those of you that have done this know that physically this is a difficult manuever. I am 60 years old and don't have the back to do this anymore, or would like to keep what back I have left. All my neighbors pretty much don't know me anymore, especially after the last transmission job. They close their blinds when I come knocking. My thoughts are: why not pull the engine and this would give me a better chance to look over some other areas in the car that probably need some attention. May even be a good time to put in the new floor pans. I have access to a really nice portable hydraulic engine hoist with the adjustable bar. I have pulled the engine before and was surprised at how easy it really was. Step one, take down the whole exhaust system. Then pull the carbs, radiator, bonnet, cross member, block off the gas line, and voila, engine out! I can place the engine (sans oil pan) on a rectangular box made out of 4x4's and just wiggle the tranny off from there. Then I can easily access the flywheel and rear seal. Putting the tranny back on is a lot easier at sea level than from atop the car. Just slip it on with the tailpiece chocked for support. The biggest kicker, besides pulling the exhaust out (I have SS headers and custom system so it really does have to come out), is getting the darn bonnet back on perfectly. Has anyone ever thought of indexing the hinge plate of the bonnet by drilling and placing a few small bolts though the hinge plate into the body so that putting it back would only entail locating these holes with the screws or bolts and going right back to where I started, perfect alignment. Besides a really long run-on sentence, what problems will I creat and would this be the thing to do. Anyway, thoughts would be appreciated.


Bill

swift6
06-12-2006, 11:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone ever thought of indexing the hinge plate of the bonnet by drilling and placing a few small bolts though the hinge plate into the body so that putting it back would only entail locating these holes with the screws or bolts and going right back to where I started, perfect alignment.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is exactly what my body and paint guy suggests. He uses 1/8" bits for his holes and then uses a drill bit to line them back up again. As far as the holes go, just treat as you did your extra mirror holes to keep the rust monster away.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

Terry_Geiger
06-12-2006, 12:01 PM
Since you have access to a hydraulic engine hoist, you can use the hoist to remove the transmission instead of man handling the transmission.

tomshobby
06-12-2006, 12:11 PM
Hi Bill,
Had not thought about this for years. I used to have a cradle made for tranmissions that fit my floor jack. It was made pretty simple and had a post under it that fit in the hole where the swivel plate on the jack fit. I used to take one out and slip the other in.

It was easy and quick. I liked it better than a tranny jack because it was easier to use and manuver. It was also more compact and allowed better access to work. Say nothing about the fact that it was a lot cheaper than having both and took less space to store.

Bruno_69z28
06-12-2006, 12:31 PM
Has anyone ever thought of indexing the hinge plate of the bonnet by drilling and placing a few small bolts though the hinge plate into the body so that putting it back would only entail locating these holes with the screws or bolts and going right back to where I started, perfect alignment.

Bill
I use blue tape to show where the bonnet and hinge align.

Bill

Alan_Myers
06-12-2006, 01:44 PM
Hi Bill,

Personally, I like Bill's idea of using blue tape. It's a good idea to tape up the edges of the hood and fenders during removal and reinstallation, anyway, to help prevent paint chips.

Sure, the small bolts would work, too. A less obvious alternative might be to just drill a couple 1/16" holes through each of the hinges. Then, during reinstall, use the shanks of several 1/16" drill bits to align it. Simple, minimal and only a little more permanent than the tape idea.

I do think it's easier to work on the gearbox pulling it and the engine as a unit. And, as you say, it's not a lot different from pulling the gearbox out through the cockpit, in terms of the total amount of work involved.

I just use a large flat piece of wood under the sump pan and have never had a problem. I'd be concerned about having the bottom of the engine open and vulnerable while working around it. Some dirt or whatever might find it's way in there and cause problems. A commonly used alternative is to make up an engine cradle with caster wheels, but that involves some welding and fabrication.

Last time I removed/reinstalled the gearbox in my TR4, I was pulling the engine anyway, so took them out as a unit. I left the engine hanging on the hoist (actually a chain hoist bolted to my garage ceiling) and lowered until the engine was somewhat supported on the ground, then removed the gearbox. Re-marrying the two was just the reverse process. Both went quickly and easily. Gearbox has an overdrive attached, too, so is more like 125 lbs. total.

I'm a few years younger than you, but my back is pretty messed up from years of carelessness. (Carried a TR4 bare block about 50-75 ft. once, back in my foolish youth.)

With respect to your neighbors, might I suggest a few backyard barbecue parties or maybe invite them over for movies, beer and pizza. No projects or assistance requests the first couple times. Then, after some benign visits they will be lulled into complacency and you can try the "Hey, while you are here, could you give me a hand with...?" tact.

It usually helps to lubricate neighbors with refreshment and fuel them with food, so they will be pliable for future projects.

Grilled steaks or even lobster can be substituted for bigger projects like a complete car body lift or painting/reroofing the barn. Of course, they will expect similar help from you when they have a big project on their side of the street, but at least you'll get food and drink, since you have set the precedent. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

IanF
06-12-2006, 02:03 PM
We just did a similar operation on JerseyGirl's Volvo 1800ES. The automatic died and we got the parts to convert it to a manual. Sounds great. Pull the engine and let's go!

Then the snow-ball effect started...

Since engine is out, let's clean it and paint it.

Now we have a shiney engine. Do we really want to put it into that old, grimey bay? So let's clean up the engine bay... one thing leads to another and I have the entire front suspension off the car, the wiring harnesses out, and the engine bay completely stripped for repainting.

Granted, the results are gorgeous and we're really happy with it, but it turned into a lot more work than if I had simply swapped the transmissions from below...

Or, the process in smilies:

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grouphug.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cryin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonod.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grouphug.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

pa297pass
06-12-2006, 02:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
... May even be a good time to put in the new floor pans...

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill:

This is called "shipwrights disease" ... be very wary of it. I have a non-LBC that I started changing the engine mounts on and ended up with a frame off restoration. It is still apart after 12 years of work.

My opinion is that you should get the car back on the road as soon as possible ... if it is easier and quicker for you to pull the engine, then I am all for it. Summer is the only time we get to drive these cars, at least where I live.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing.

Matt

bobh
06-12-2006, 02:40 PM
I say pull the engine and do the floors. Save your back! The only bad thing is the timimg. This is the time of year when you would rather be driving it than working on it. Although you have a more moderate winter than some members. How about a lightened flywheel while you're in there? "Sorry honey, I had no idea the flywheel was bad..."

Brosky
06-12-2006, 04:04 PM
I agree with Bob. My car is in the second month of a "simple engine cleanup and repaint" that has morphed into a life of it's own. First it was the engine, then the JetHot the manifold, then new headers and on and on. I was at the body shop today and took some new pics for my website and realized is has been nearly two months since I drove the car, except from one shop to another for mods or paint.

If you can wait until winter, do it then. It will end up taking longer, but who cares and you'll have time to get every conceivable replacement part that you could need in advance. This will also result in it being done correctly from the start.

Both Allan (A&E Auto Body) and Eric (Her Majesty's Service) said that they would do it right, but would not be rushed. I agreed and thankfully all weekends but one have been rain soaked or I'd be very anxious to drive. And they are doing it right!

JMHO

TR_Jim
06-12-2006, 05:31 PM
I just changed my clutch too and found a way to save my back. Check the picture. It worked really well. Still a tight fit and a lot of manuvering, but I didn't have to deal with the weight.

TR_Jim
06-12-2006, 05:40 PM
I guess I should show the what's doing the lifting! The hand winch is about $60 at Home Depot.

Harry_Ward
06-12-2006, 08:37 PM
winter of 04-05 I decided I wanted to change that leaky timing chain cover oil seal. (how's it go car just marking it's spot and I should have let it) little job turned into timing chain, timing gear, straigtening of front engine mounting plate, complete removal and rebuild of front end suspension and bushings, steering box bearings steering worm and gear...I could go on and on... try not to get caught up in this trap unless you like fixing it more than driving it.

And finally it stopped raining on Saturday!
Harry

IanF
06-13-2006, 09:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Granted, the results are gorgeous and we're really happy with it, but it turned into a lot more work than if I had simply swapped the transmissions from below...

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah.. I forgot to mention the engine was pulled at the begining of November and finally drove the car again at the beginning of May... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

jerrybny
06-13-2006, 10:12 AM
I wonder how a ATV lift would work. I used my sons to remove my differential and it worked great. His is the kind that has 4 individual points that rotate 360 degrees and can be adjusted up and down. all I did was jack it up until it near the differential and adjusted the 4 feet and voila lowered the jack and down it came. I'm betting I could do the same with the tranny.

06-13-2006, 11:53 AM
Jerry,
The only issue with using such a device would be the fact that the TR tranny has to be "teased" out, meaning the tail needs to be lifted slightly and the bell housing needs to be pried off the rear of the engine backward to clear the clutch and locating dowels. Don't know if you would have that much flexibility with a stationary jack. Maybe as a support but would need the ability to manhandle the darn tranny a bit. With the engine/tranny sitting on a platform, it would just be a matter of pulling straight back.
Anything to make it easier. I looked at the idea of the comealong with straps like in the previous post and may re-look at that again. I would be working alone (done it four times before) and anything to ease the pain would be welcome. Will keep studying before I dive in, again.....

Bill

jerrybny
06-13-2006, 12:47 PM
With this type of ATV jack you could raise the rear using 2 of the feet while leaving the front where is is. It is on wheels so after prying like you said you could roll it backwards. If you look here https://www.motorcyclejacks.com/MAL-2.shtml you will see what I mean. Go to the section where they talk about the Stabilizer Arms that swing out and screw down. There is a picture. I just think this might be able to do the job and its not too expensive. But you have to make the final call. Hope this helps.

trfourtune
06-16-2006, 06:56 AM
PULL OR NOT?
just do it ! that's a no brainer. heck, it could have been finished by now.
rob

06-16-2006, 10:55 AM
British Columbia is a long way from Louisiana. I thought, from what you said, that you were gonna come help!


Bill

trfourtune
06-19-2006, 10:10 AM
do i need to bring my cherry picker? please send flight tickets.